BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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TheJoker

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I know this has already been posted before however I was basically wondering where to start. Basically I was riding today like normal just filled up a little bit too much (that was sorted). Came to a bend and lost power there was like a grinding noise coming from the bike.  Here is the noise not that good of a file though;
Clutch sound noise clip.

Wondering what had happened I pulled over, tried to go again however there is no power, it revs cleanly (in neutral) and goes into every gear if not turned on, . However when I pull in the clutch it makes the noise and won't move.

Now I don't mind pulling the clutch and pulling at straws however I was wondering if one of you have come across something similar before (which might narrow my field down a bit) Question


Edit: Also found a crack in the I believe breather hose but I think that may have been there a while. For the engine breather.



Last edited by TheJoker on Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

Snod Blatter

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@TheJoker wrote:However when I pull in the clutch it makes the noise and won't move.
Pulling the clutch in generally stops it from moving. This is hard to follow.. When it's running in neutral can you get any gears? Or does pulling the clutch while in neutral make the grinding noise?

In neutral can the rear wheel still be turned freely?


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1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

TheJoker

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@Snod Blatter wrote:
@TheJoker wrote:However when I pull in the clutch it makes the noise and won't move.
Pulling the clutch in generally stops it from moving. This is hard to follow.. When it's running in neutral can you get any gears? Or does pulling the clutch while in neutral make the grinding noise?

In neutral can the rear wheel still be turned freely?

Sorry I should have explained myself more clearly simplified it is as followed. When I'm in neutral I can changed gears easily, the rear wheel turns freely however if I rev the noise appears. If I change to first it still feels like the clutch is engaged and there is no drive (won't move).


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

AL-58

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You may have stripped the clutch/input shaft spline.

We've had two a K75s and an R1150R.

Al


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'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

TheJoker

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@AL-58 wrote:You may have stripped the clutch/input shaft spline.

We've had two a K75s and an R1150R.

Al


Hmm Interesting I was thinking the clutch plates myself, although that makes more sense I'm going to be taking the bike apart tomorrow anyway. Now I haven't ordered any replacement parts as I don't really know what it actually is yet. However is there any maintenance that would be worth doing whilst it is apart Question


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

RicK G

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It could be either the shaft or the plate or another possibility is the final drive spline has worn out and is stripped but you will find that in the teardown to get at the gearbox.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Dai

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Do a spline lube while you're at it. You have to take off all the relevant parts anyway.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

TheJoker

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@Dai wrote:Do a spline lube while you're at it. You have to take off all the relevant parts anyway.


Interesting will do, got find a neighbour that will let me use there garden first, so looks like I'm just buying supplies first and parts. Which is rather annoying.


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

TheJoker

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Update

Sorry for the double post by the way however started work on the bike today. Right first pulled the shaft input spline and checked the bearing. The bearing looks brand new and the shaft spline is fine. Next checked the final drive shaft seems fine no real worry here.

So now I’ve left it for the night however doing a strip of the gearbox/clutch. Engine oil has been drained, battery removed, rear wheel removed. So next is the alternator etc.

Oh well who said that sorting problems was easy Laughing


(There was one really weird thing and that was with the rear wheel. Basically I got it in 5th gear and it kept spinning. Had to get a friend hold down the wheel so I could undo it.)


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

SteveK1

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Did you drain the transmission gear oil to look for loose bits of metal?  What you describe in fifth gear might indicate a transmission issue.


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BMW K1 1990
BMW R60 /5 1973
BMW R100R 1992
Honda CB360T 1975
    

kioolt

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@SteveK1 wrote:Did you drain the transmission gear oil to look for loose bits of metal?  What you describe in fifth gear might indicate a transmission issue.

I'm almost sure that the transmission alone would not keep the rear wheel from spinning so no surprise there.  With bad clutch splines it would almost be just like it is in neutral.  I still think it's the clutch splines that are bad.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 183,000 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 418,600 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

RicK G

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You don't need to remove the alternator to get the gearbox out.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

TheJoker

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@SteveK1 wrote:Did you drain the transmission gear oil to look for loose bits of metal?  What you describe in fifth gear might indicate a transmission issue.

I've only drained the engine oil via the sump plug. Haven't checked the transmission yet. I'm taking the clutch apart anyway to have a look at that, also taking the shaft fully apart whilst I've got the room to give that a good greasing.

@RicK G wrote:You don't need to remove the alternator to get the gearbox out.

I'm going by what the Haynes manual says, I was on about removing the covers. I've got to remove the exhaust now so best get on with it. The bike needs to be out by the 3rd of July.


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

kioolt

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It's not necessary to drain the engine or transmission oil to remove the transmission.  I'm not even sure if you need to remove the muffler.  I know for sure you don't need to remove the exhaust headers.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 183,000 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 418,600 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

TheJoker

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@kioolt wrote:It's not necessary to drain the engine or transmission oil to remove the transmission.  I'm not even sure if you need to remove the muffler.  I know for sure you don't need to remove the exhaust headers.

I am going for a general feeling encase it's the clutch plate, I'm also making it easier on myself whilst I can just encase the problem is deeper. Don't mock me I'm use to Japanese bikes so problems are never as simple as they seem.

Anyway Update 18/06/2015

Ok so far I've managed to get everything off bar the starter motor that will come off tomorrow; so I can take off the clutch. I have also taken of the drive shaft and both the male and female end have good splines and are lubed with molybdenum paste. So at least that isn't a real worry; it will be given a bit more when it's back together though.


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

kioolt

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Guess what.  The starter doesn't need to be removed to access the clutch.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 183,000 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 418,600 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

TheJoker

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@kioolt wrote:Guess what.  The starter doesn't need to be removed to access the clutch.


I'm just going via the Haynes manual, hmm guess it's living up to its name then for the Haynes book of lies.


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

kioolt

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If you weren't doing all of the unnecessary stuff that the Haynes manual is telling you, you'd be through by now.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 183,000 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 418,600 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

TheJoker

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@kioolt wrote:If you weren't doing all of the unnecessary stuff that the Haynes manual is telling you, you'd be through by now.

Yes but then from someone who hasn't really done that much work on bikes; something to follow is easier than doing a guessing game. I haven't really seen that good of a write up that could be easily followed (not much for videos).

Heck my first 125cc bike I rode without an air filter because I was told it would cause problems to the engine. I also revved my bike in neutral to test if it was holding load. Heck silly mistakes in the past that worked out expensive; but back to my point we all have to start somewhere. Haynes is my somewhere at the moment.


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

Rockman


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@kioolt wrote:It's not necessary to drain the engine or transmission oil to remove the transmission.  I'm not even sure if you need to remove the muffler.  I know for sure you don't need to remove the exhaust headers.
No you dont but there is one gearbox mounting screw in behind the exhaust (lower left) that is a little difficult to get at. You can, but only part of a turn at a time until its loose enough for fingers. Easy with the exhaust off.

    

RicK G

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The starter will need to come off, it bolts onto the gearbox and goes into the hole in the intermediate housing which remains on the engine.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Holister

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@Rockman wrote:No you dont but there is one gearbox mounting screw in behind the exhaust (lower left) that is a little difficult to get at. You can, but only part of a turn at a time until its loose enough for fingers. Easy with the exhaust off.
Yep. That lower left bolt is a bugger to get to but it is possible with a couple of extensions on the socket and a little dexterity. Certainly a lot easier than, not so much removing the muffler, but getting the damn thing back on.

I certainly agree with the above comments. You're taking the long route but if you're comfortable with that then go for it.

There are some things you need to consider tho as you said you were doing this in someones garden?? Shocked
To remove the GB the centre stand has to be removed. You MUST have the bike properly and securely supported.

Also, here's a checklist for R/R gear box



Last edited by Kaptain Holister on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added checklist)


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

mike d


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When you come to removing the gearbox, remember it can be awkward to pull away from the engine. To help, remove two of the casing bolts, and replace with 2 x M8 studs (a couple of inches long). These will help support the box as you pull it rearwards. If working alone, I also support the gearbox on a wheeled car hydraulic jack, and use this to wheel the box backwards. You don't want the box to drop and put strain on the input shaft. 

If removing the clutch assembly, mark all the components so that they can be assembled back in the same orientation. 

While you are in that deep, some advise to renew the rear main seal, and 'O' ring.

Mike

    

TheJoker

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Sorry I haven't posted found out the problem the clutch has actually given up, the splines were ok on the outside however on the inside of the clutch housing they are almost none existent.

So also the friction plate had seized along with the friction plate and diaphragm spring this is my first time replacing a clutch on any bike so has been an experience to say the least. Anyway parts are ordered and hopefully should be here in the next 2 days if I'm lucky. So as long as I've got the time on my hand by sunday. I should be riding the bike again.


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

charlie99

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hope you have ordered some of the recommended lube for the splines as well ..if not ....get onto it ...it could make the difference of lasting 100s of thousands and 1000s

good luck for the repair job ahead

cheers


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

TheJoker

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@charlie99 wrote:hope you have ordered some of the recommended lube for the splines as well ..if not ....get onto it ...it could make the difference of lasting 100s of thousands and 1000s

good luck for the repair job ahead

cheers


Hi, sorry for the long time to reply I'm using a friends internet connection as mine has ran out. Yes I ordered some last week hopefully be here by Friday.

This is the stuff I've ordered Ebay link I was recommended it by a friend he has advised to go sparingly and use a toothbrush.

Just found out that the parts are on their way and should be delivered today from motorworks. Then it will be the fun part of trying remember how everything went together. My phone got crushed by a truck at work so I’ve lost the photo's.


On a side note tools

I've realised that the tools I'm using at the moment are not really sufficient to do most of the jobs. So I'm going to look into some better quality life time guarantee tools. However not snap on, my house mate has these and I don't want him to add them to his collection.


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

mike d


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As you're in the UK, check out the Halfords Professional range. I have them and they are very good.

Mike

    

Dai

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Draper Silverline (if they're still available). I'm still quite happily using the set I bought thirty-plus years back. They cost me £79 then - half a weeks wages, literally.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

TheJoker

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Sorry for the late update, I've been working lates last week so haven't had a real chance to get at the bike. That and waiting for parts so left it till the last two days.

Yes I should of done everything faster. Time just slept away. Got most of the bike back together though exhaust was extremely easy to get back on, just take the headers out of the exhaust body (make note of which way). Followed by tightening them up then put them back into the exhaust body.

Anyway think I've caused another problem. Basically when you turn the ignition on you get everything (sidelights/instruments). However when I press the starter button everything is killed. Now I doubt I've had the battery off that long to drain it, I'm also starting in neutral for obvious reasons with the clutch needing adjustment. Fuses are fine. So I believe I've missed a cable (one on positive (earth) and a double on (negative)) or put one in the wrong place.

Here's the query can anyone who has a k100 possibly take a photo of the battery cables and where the earth hooks up to, or possibly link me up to a diagram. Or any other ideas Question


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My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

RicK G

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Go to the portal page and you will find interactive electrical diagrams. You should get the info needed there.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Holister

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I wouldn't assume your battery is ok. First thing I'd do is measure the voltage. Should be 12.5V or more. Ideally around 12.9V static. A battery in poor condition can lose its charge very quickly.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

TheJoker

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Well I found the problem it was a dodgy earth, used a wire brush on the mounting point and bingo; it now works. Fired the bike up no more weird noise, replaced fluids and tested it on the centre stand with a brace goes through gears fine.

Also as a bonus the rear wheel no longer spins when I'm in gear Very Happy .

Now I've got to learn a whole new technique of riding, I was trained to ride the clutch (use the biting point for slow speed manoeuvres.)


__________________________________________________
My Bike List past to present so far;

Lexmoto (first bike ever to ride) , CB125 TDC 86 , CG125 89 , GN125 97 , ER5 96 , K100 RS 84

84/01 K100rs 0013627
    

Born Again Eccentric

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@TheJoker wrote:
Also as a bonus the rear wheel no longer spins when I'm in gear Very Happy .
Uh?....the rear wheel is meant to spin when in gear, that's kind of what makes the bike go...usually most effective when in contact with the road. Smile

Good news on sorting out the dodgy earth though.


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                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

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