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1Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:56 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
Im really digging my 16v K just lately. Ive been telling everyone at work how despite it being 25 years old, its still dead reliable. Now it seems it's just dead Sad .

Had a great run out on it this morning, around 70 miles before I got in to work this afternoon. After I came out of work about 6 hours later the bugger wouldn't start. Here's what I can tell you...

As soon as I turn the key & the dash lights come on, the fan kicks in (never had that before) and it simply refuses to turn over.

Also (and I don't know if this is relevant), if I try putting it in gear with the clutch in, it doesn't turn over.

The battery is a brand new Mottobatt 30ha, so I know that's ok.

Any ideas?

Won't start. Any ideas? 562922653393a

Won't start. Any ideas? 562922845f19a

    

2Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:03 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
Is the starter relay clicking?  How many miles on the bike?


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

3Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:08 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
No clicking, just the usual fuel pump whirring when the key turns, and a healthy turn over on the button - just not firing. Its similar to when you try to start it with the side stand down.

I mentioned the fan, as that is definitely unusual. It's roaring once the key's turned.

Done 54,000 miles.

    

4Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:16 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
Life time member
Could be the temperature sensor, Bonzo, if it thinks the engine is too hot it'll turn on the fan but won't allow the engine to start.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

5Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:36 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
Or, taking Sidecar Paul's comment, the connection to the sensor or the washer under the sensor. There is a thread on that but removal and cleaning washer and refitting might sort it. I have a suspicion though that 'remove it' means strip fairing panels and radiator off.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

6Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:57 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
Temperature sensor. Hmm, that makes sense.

Strange how things just 'go' isn't it. No warning. At least it didn't happen this morning 30 odd miles away & work to get to.

Ill have a look at my Clymer manual.

Thanks guys.

    

7Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:29 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
Life time member
If it's the same as an 8 valve  Question  then the resistance of the water temperature sensor at 20ºC is 2.5 K ohms, dropping to 300 ohms at 80ºC. 'Overheating circumstances' would read below 300 ohms. Maybe a short in the wiring somewhere?

Worth checking for a start.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

8Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:58 pm

paulo k100

avatar
active member
active member
Hello.
Some years ago I had the same problem as you. Check all the ground points. See my post on Eletrical part and the post is called ''she goes crazy-help me'' it was on 

Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:45 pm.

Good luck I hope you can solve your problem as I did!

    

9Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:58 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Or, taking Sidecar Paul's comment, the connection to the sensor or the washer under the sensor. There is a thread on that but removal and cleaning washer and refitting might sort it. I have a suspicion though that 'remove it' means strip fairing panels and radiator off.
You're right Olaf. It means taking off the entire airbox to get at it.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

10Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:41 pm

RT

RT
Life time member
Life time member
A word of warning from an idiot. Don't unscrew the sensor until you have emptied the radiator. affraid


__________________________________________________
2011 R1200RT
    

11Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:10 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
@sidecar paul wrote:Could be the temperature sensor, Bonzo, if it thinks the engine is too hot it'll turn on the fan but won't allow the engine to start.

Paul.
+1 
Also check the wire for a short to earth as that will have the same effect.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

12Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:52 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
@RicK G wrote:
@sidecar paul wrote:Could be the temperature sensor, Bonzo, if it thinks the engine is too hot it'll turn on the fan but won't allow the engine to start.

Paul.
+1 
Also check the wire for a short to earth as that will have the same effect.

Cheers for all your help folks. First job is to get the bike back home to check it over - hope to recover it over the weekend.


Rick, forgive my ignorance, which wire to earth? Is there a wire coming direct from the temp sensor to earth?

    

13Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:40 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
If the wire to the sensor from the ECU is damaged and touching the frame it will make the ECU think the engine is overheated and over 113°C the ECU will prevent it starting by cutting the injectors.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

14Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:16 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
Ahh, gotcha.

Many thanks Rick (and everyone)

    

15Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:15 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Just to add to the advice above... Measure the resistance on pin#10 to earth on the FICU plug (under the seat). If its 0.5 ohms or less its most probably a short in the wire. If there's some resistance there then its likely to be a faulty sensor (measure when the engine is cold you'll have the best chance of getting a meaningfull reading if the sensor is faulty). 
That will give you a place to start looking before going to the trouble of taking the fairing off to get to the sensor.
Instructions here about 3/4 way down the page.

If it looks like its shorting, disconnect the sensor plug and test again. Short- its the wire. No short- its the sensor shorting out


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Won't start. Any ideas? Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

16Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:24 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
I recovered the bike this morning. I pushed it probably just shy of 2 miles and now 5 hours later I can hardly type. I feel like my arms are falling off! I cant believe how a very slight incline can hurt so much What a Face 


Anyway, I can relax a bit now as it's back in the garage. I knew I had a full day ahead of family stuff so wouldn't get chance to get stuck in but I did give it a look over. I noticed that the level was low in the recovery tank. Not empty - just down to the min level. I topped that up.

I unclipped the connector from the Motronic unit and clipped it back in, just in case there was any damp in there (its been outside for a couple of nights in the rain) and tried the ignition again. No fan. It started first time.

So, on one hand I'm happy its going again, but on the other, I don't know what was happening.

Why would disconnecting the plug & then re-connecting it make it work again?

Also I need to ask another (possibly related) question. As my abs is faulty and discharging the battery I disconnected the unit leaving the plug dangling. Is this OK to do that until I can get the abs unit sorted? Does that affect anything else other than the brakes?  As far as I can tell the only difference (apart from obviously having no abs) is a red light on the dash.

    

17Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:14 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
It is quite possible that the Motronic connector was the problem and that cycling the connection made it work again.  Have you sprayed the contacts with DeOxit?  If you don't have any, it is a good idea to get some and begin a program of systematically going through all the connections on the bike.

It would still be a good idea to go through checking the temperature sensor and it's wiring, as there may well be an intermittent problem there.  A thorough check will be a confidence builder.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

18Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:17 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
That is a very common problem with those connectors so I would say you can relax a bit.
A good idea is to get some deoxit (contact cleaner not like WD40) and go ove every connector you can find, it will pay dividends.
The contacts don't have very much tension on them so a small bit of dirt will create havoc.
Keep an eye on things still, you will always need to give them a bit more TLC than a new bike but they are worth it and it is supprising how reliable they are compared with many other brands of the same age.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

19Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:32 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
I know lots of you guys recommend DeOxit, I just cant find it in the Isle of Man & getting it posted over is a bit of a nightmare. Next time Im in the UK Ill try to get hold of some.

Ive cleaned the connectors with an electrical contact cleaner that I have (Wynn's) and coated them with a silicone grease, so it should be OK.

Yep, assuming it carries on running all will be fine & Ill go to work on the wiring, ground & connections over the winter.

The ABS. Is it ok to run without the unit connected?

Cheers all

Bonz



Last edited by Bonzo on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling mistake)

    

20Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Won't start on Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:35 am

Gordon Smith

Gordon Smith
Silver member
Silver member
Bonzo--De oxit D5 is available on Amazon UK, £22.75 a can and well worth it. Very Happy

    

21Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:17 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
Yeah Gordon, I spotted it. Sadly as its aerosol they won't ship it out of the mainland  🇳🇴

Nightmare.

    

22Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Won't start on Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:28 pm

Gordon Smith

Gordon Smith
Silver member
Silver member
Sorry for delay, can't help as not coming over until the Manx next year. Know any body in the Pool or on the ferry? Very Happy

    

23Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:34 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
@Gordon Smith wrote:Sorry for delay, can't help as not coming over until the Manx next year. Know any body in the Pool or on the ferry? Very Happy

Actually I've just realised, my youngest is going back to the motherland in the next few weeks. I'll get Amazon to deliver it to our mates house where he'll be staying.

Sorted!  Very Happy

    

24Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:05 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
"The ABS. Is it ok to run without the unit connected"
That is what the guru recommends if it has a fault and isnt working.
http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

25Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty bike not starting on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:09 pm

playlikewedream

playlikewedream
Silver member
Silver member
Hi guys
I had a similar problem today, left the house to get petrol no problem starting got to garage about two miles away, got petrol and when I tried to start the bike nothing not a turn over nothing dead. I wondered had I done something when filling up. Tried to start blke on and off for about ten minutes, checking any wires I could get at etc. I did notice when I turned key on the dash lights came on, indicators worked break lights OK but the dip lights or head lights would not come on. Called breakdown recovery had a chat with a good Samaritan on a varadero while we waited then I turned key pressed starter and hey presto she started weird or what. Any ideas what might cause this, was it battery or what.

Cheers.

    

26Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:39 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
My guess would be the starter brushes.  The headlight not working is a clue for this.  The headlight could have been off because of the "load shed relay".  The load shed relay could have been off because of the starter brushes.  The next time  this happens (and it will if it is the starter brushes) try putting the bike in gear and rolling it backwards.  This causes the starter to spin and will sometimes get you a good enough contact between your brushes and commutator for the starter to work at least temporarily. You could also try tapping on the starter.  When the headlight comes on the starter will work.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

27Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:33 pm

playlikewedream

playlikewedream
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Kioolt
Will have a look at that tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Cheers.


__________________________________________________
Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log10Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log10
;BMW; K1 1990 Laguna Blue and Yellow ;BMW;
;BMW; K1100RS 1997 Sedien Blue.;BMW;

Its not about the journey or the destination, it's about the friends you make on the way.
    

28Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:50 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
Check this out.  It explains it better then I can.

http://skylands.ibmwr.org/tom/tech/starter.html


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

29Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:35 pm

playlikewedream

playlikewedream
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks for that very in depth instructions, hopefully. I can follow them correctly.

Cheers

    

30Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:33 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

31Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:01 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
Be a bit cautious about tapping the starter as the magnets are glewed to the case and can come loose or crack and loose the magnetism. The plastic end of a screwdriver would be all that,s needed.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

32Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:13 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
Good point on the tapping lightly.  I was a troubleshooter electrician at an industrial plant.  I got called to a machine that wasn't working right and found that there was a bad sensor on it.  I also found that if I lightly tapped it with the handle of my screwdriver while holding it only with two fingers on the blade that the sensor would work.  Since I didn't have a replacement sensor I told the operator to tap it if it quit working until we could get a replacement sensor.  I got called again about 30 minutes later and the sensor was destroyed.  The operator replied that he tapped it like he saw me tap it.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

33Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:05 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
Honest I only hit it with my hand. Those ball pein knuckles can do a lot of damage.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

34Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:46 am

Curley

Curley
Silver member
Silver member
I have had this problem with both my K100RS and K75RT. I was out and about then the issue presented itself.
What i did was put it in gear and rock the bike back and forth a little and that helped start the bike up.

I ran it for a while before having time to strip and clean the started.


__________________________________________________
Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log11Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log11Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log11Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log11Won't start. Any ideas? Ir-log11

cheers  White K100RS 1991  cheers Red K1100LT SE 1995 cheers Green K75RT 1995 cheers
    

35Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:07 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
My brother lives over on Isle of Man. Next time you see an S1000RR streaking past it may be him....He doesn't do 'pipe and slippers bikes' as he calls them.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

36Back to top Go down   Won't start. Any ideas? Empty Re: Won't start. Any ideas? on Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:44 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Silver member
Silver member
Just closing this off.

Since I disconnected / connected the Motronic plug, all has been well - very happy to report (probably cursed it now ☺)

Thanks again for all your suggestions folks.

    

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