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Motorbike Mike

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I asked on another thread earlier this week if anyone had successfully installed a K1200RS/GT oil/water pump onto an earlier K engine. I decided to try the installation after seeing this subject on another thread somewhere on here and having cooling problems on my JJ Cobas bike so I posted here.

http://www.k100-forum.com/t10953-k1200-oil-water-pump-on-k1100-has-anyone-ever-managed-it

How many replies did I get? Just 1 from me claiming to have found a mystery part...and it was WRONG!! I've now solved the issue so I'll ask again. Has anyone else managed to fit a K1200RS oil/water pump onto and earlier K motor? Rolling Eyes

    

Crazy Frog

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Sorry Mike, but if nobody replied, this is certainly due to the fact that nobody has the answer. Embarassed


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Motorbike Mike

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Joking aside, I'm amazed it's not been done before by anyone on here. I honestly expected a few " Oh yeah I've done that, like this..." replies.
By Friday morning ze transformation vill be complete Baron Frankenstein. :smoke:

...and on to the next issue of where to site the oil cooler.



Last edited by Motorbike Mike on Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

    

Kyle10

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Mike,
I keep my mouth shut if I don't have an answer (as a ruleCool).

What's the impetus for the swap? Volume and/or reliability?


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Motorbike Mike

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Improved cooling.
With a tuned 8 valve 1000cc making 90bhp at the rear wheel, it was just over the edge of inadequate and I couldn't get a bigger radiator inside the bodywork. This year it's got a breathed on 1100 16 valver that will almost certainly make more power and therefore more heat so more cooling is required. BMW didn't fit oil coolers on K's until they made the 130bhp 1200 which is 30% more power than the 11 so that's been the puzzle.getting the 12 oil/water pump on an 1100.

    

RicK G

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Motorbike Mike wrote:I asked on another thread earlier this week if anyone had successfully installed a K1200RS/GT oil/water pump onto an earlier K engine. I decided to try the installation after seeing this subject on another thread somewhere on here and having cooling problems on my JJ Cobas bike so I posted here.

http://www.k100-forum.com/t10953-k1200-oil-water-pump-on-k1100-has-anyone-ever-managed-it

How many replies did I get? Just 1 from me claiming to have found a mystery part...and it was WRONG!! I've now solved the issue so I'll ask again. Has anyone else managed to fit a K1200RS oil/water pump onto and earlier K motor? Rolling Eyes
No I have not fitted a K1200 oil/water pump to a K1100 and if I had fitted one I would have said so and offered help by telling you what I had done.


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Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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RicK G wrote:
Motorbike Mike wrote:I asked on another thread earlier this week if anyone had successfully installed a K1200RS/GT oil/water pump onto an earlier K engine. I decided to try the installation after seeing this subject on another thread somewhere on here and having cooling problems on my JJ Cobas bike so I posted here.

http://www.k100-forum.com/t10953-k1200-oil-water-pump-on-k1100-has-anyone-ever-managed-it

How many replies did I get? Just 1 from me claiming to have found a mystery part...and it was WRONG!! I've now solved the issue so I'll ask again. Has anyone else managed to fit a K1200RS oil/water pump onto and earlier K motor? Rolling Eyes
No I have not fitted a K1200 oil/water pump to a K1100 and if I had fitted one I would have said so and offered help by telling you what I had done.
I'm sorry I've offended you.
I thought the subject may have proved an interesting topic as it's on the subject of K engines and what's possible.
The thread was only started with tongue in cheek and if you read #3 it's fairly obvious.

    

RicK G

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Not offended at all but I have re read post 3 and I don't think that it is obvious. More than anything I was wondering just who it was that pissed in your cornflakes. Very Happy


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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RicK G wrote:Not offended at all but I have re read post 3 and I don't think that it is obvious. More than anything I was wondering just who it was that pissed in your cornflakes. Very Happy
....and there you go again!
This is for you Mr G.

    

92KK 84WW Olaf


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Mike

I smiled when I saw my dear friend John Cleese, definitely makes you a good forum member who is also endowed with K humour.

I actually read your post shortly after it was posted and with no replies, typed out a long reply and then it never posted.

Theyguys here generally don't reply to technical questions if they can't support the particular question raised. Some very knowledgeable members have made few enough posts but will alsways offer good advice if they can. Some of us however do sometimes step in with well educated theories and advice. But the last thing any of us want is a load of bad advice so many don't make any post at all and in fairness when it happens the reprimands are very tactful and polite, unlike some other forums I have used.

The thing about the K1200 is the change in frame configuration makes certain parts, ie starter and alternator, very difficult to access.

The K75/K100/K1100 in sharing configuration and many parts fall naturally together. We do things like put K75 pistons in K100 for higher compression ratio, some do things like put K1100 engines in K100s, some have fitted turbos, altered geometry, lots of things but very few if any involve interface with the K1200.

Going back to the question raised reminded me of a good friend since deceased who had a varied career including test driving for Lotus and in the seventies designed and built a one off car for road use, got it through the insurance hoops and when it was finished it looked like it came off a production line if only because where possible he used off the shelf components and glasswork. 'Built' included building a monocoque fibreglass body, by way of making the mould himself. We were working on a large hospital project at the time and when I turned up with a nice shiny Honda 500 Four his mechanical interests formed a bond. He was slightly upset that the informal 'fastest timeI set from myhouse to the site was decimated by a young squirt on a motorbike'. Of course this led to my interest in his car, at that stage it was still 3 years short of being on the road.

This led to a conversation about cooling and heat when you upped an engine's performance. In his career he had experimented with black painted radiators, radiators with extra fins added on the main flow pipes, metal waterpipes with fins instead of hoses [which he couldnt use on cars due to rubber mounted engines], finned engine sumps.Lectures about fluid dynamics, airflows etc led to a few discussions on how waterways, cooling requiremends, pump speed and impeller shapes have to be matched and are usually optimised for an engine and for the higher powered versions being made from one basic engine unit. We had big interest locally in this stuff as motorcycle drag racing was all the rage in this little corner of the world.

The only way I can see more cooling [apart from the sort of things explored above]is a change in gearing to make a pump gofaster but the drive shaft for the pump does not seem to lend itself to a change in gearing if only because whatever drives the pump gearing also must change, ie both cogs. I dont think anyone has been in that far to make that change of if it can be done but if they have I may have missed the post. I did look up Clymer to see but it doesn't give anything on the K1200. Changing impeller may change efficiencyby causing cavitation and resultant overheating.

Back to my deceased friend he also had ideas of remote radiators and longer hoses, now quite commonplace, such as in the side vents of my sons VFR800 Vtec that has them in the fairing. Not something discussed on this forum but at high end I have often wondered if other products can be used in the cooling system for faster heat dissipation. Radiators could be curved too.

The other one mentioned was to machine a plate to increase the sump capacity. This does not seem to be a very difficult task and as the oil performs a big part of the cooling function may help. I am wondering how much extra depth would be needed to achieve another litre of oil capacity and could this also be used to introduce oil cooling?

I know it doesn't answer the question, but sometimes a different direction may work.


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Motorbike Mike

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Mike

I smiled when I saw my dear friend John Cleese, definitely makes you a good forum member who is also endowed with K humour.

I actually read your post shortly after it was posted and with no replies, typed out a long reply and then it never posted.

Theyguys here generally don't reply to technical questions if they can't support the particular question raised. Some very knowledgeable members have made few enough posts but will alsways offer good advice if they can. Some of us however do sometimes step in with well educated theories and advice. But the last thing any of us want is a load of bad advice so many don't make any post at all and in fairness when it happens the reprimands are very tactful and polite, unlike some other forums I have used.

The thing about the K1200 is the change in frame configuration makes certain parts, ie starter and alternator, very difficult to access.

The K75/K100/K1100 in sharing configuration and many parts fall naturally together. We do things like put K75 pistons in K100 for higher compression ratio, some do things like put K1100 engines in K100s, some have fitted turbos, altered geometry, lots of things but very few if any involve interface with the K1200.

Going back to the question raised reminded me of a good friend since deceased who had a varied career including test driving for Lotus and in the seventies designed and built a one off car for road use, got it through the insurance hoops and when it was finished it looked like it came off a production line if only because where possible he used off the shelf components and glasswork. 'Built' included building a monocoque fibreglass body, by way of making the mould himself. We were working on a large hospital project at the time and when I turned up with a nice shiny Honda 500 Four his mechanical interests formed a bond. He was slightly upset that the informal 'fastest timeI set from myhouse to the site was decimated by a young squirt on a motorbike'. Of course this led to my interest in his car, at that stage it was still 3 years short of being on the road.

This led to a conversation about cooling and heat when you upped an engine's performance. In his career he had experimented with black painted radiators, radiators with extra fins added on the main flow pipes, metal waterpipes with fins instead of hoses [which he couldnt use on cars due to rubber mounted engines], finned engine sumps.Lectures about fluid dynamics, airflows etc led to a few discussions on how waterways, cooling requiremends, pump speed and impeller shapes have to be matched and are usually optimised for an engine and for the higher powered versions being made from one basic engine unit. We had big interest locally in this stuff as motorcycle drag racing was all the rage in this little corner of the world.

The only way I can see more cooling [apart from the sort of things explored above]is a change in gearing to make a pump gofaster but the drive shaft for the pump does not seem to lend itself to a change in gearing if only because whatever drives the pump gearing also must change, ie both cogs. I dont think anyone has been in that far to make that change of if it can be done but if they have I may have missed the post. I did look up Clymer to see but it doesn't give anything on the K1200. Changing impeller may change efficiencyby causing cavitation and resultant overheating.

Back to my deceased friend he also had ideas of remote radiators and longer hoses, now quite commonplace, such as in the side vents of my sons VFR800 Vtec that has them in the fairing. Not something discussed on this forum but at high end I have often wondered if other products can be used in the cooling system for faster heat dissipation. Radiators could be curved too.

The other one mentioned was to machine a plate to increase the sump capacity. This does not seem to be a very difficult task and as the oil performs a big part of the cooling function may help. I am wondering how much extra depth would be needed to achieve another litre of oil capacity and could this also be used to introduce oil cooling?

I know it doesn't answer the question, but sometimes a different direction may work.
Hi Olaf,
Thanks for taking the time to write the above-shouldn't you be in the Pub? That's exactly where I'm going after writing this!

As I mentioned above, I've now solved the problem of how to get the K12 oil/water pump onto the 1100 but just thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else would "fess up" to having managed it. Anyway, here's what I know about 4 cylinder K series oil/water pumps. The 8 valve 1000cc engine has the lowest capacity unit, when BMW went to the 16 vale engines, they uprated the unit with better flow rates for both oil and water. When the 130bhp 1200 was made, they uprated again to cope with sending oil around an oil cooler, I suppose the heat from another 30bhp has to go somewhere.

The image shows an 1100 oil pump on the right, which I had on my k100 8 valve (not really enough) and the k12 oil pump on the left. they're so different and you can also see the drive type for both units on the bottom gear. The K1100 16 valve drive pick up is exactly the same as an 8 valve K but the 1200 again, way different and it's the problem of driving the 1200 pump that's been the issue as not only does it differ in shape, it's an extra 28mm long to go through the oil cooler plate. Looking on REAL OEM doesn't help because the illustrations weren't modified with the engineering, only the part numbers differ.

There you have it, have a great Easter.

    

Crazy Frog

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Mike

I smiled when I saw my dear friend John Cleese, definitely makes you a good forum member who is also endowed with K humour.
And this is why after an hour I haven't responded to the post and I am still watching John Cleese on Youtube. Smile


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Inge K.

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Motorbike Mike wrote:
The 8 valve 1000cc engine has the lowest capacity unit, when BMW went to the 16 vale engines, they uprated the unit with better flow rates for both oil and water.

Not so shure about that, when the 16V's came some did have problem with
overheating....to overcome this a popular mod was to mount a 3 core rad and
a pump from a 8V.....did read somewhere that the 16V's was designed to
heat up faster/run hooter due to new emission standards and/or BMW think
it was overcapacity on the early models.
Late police models (K11LT) did get back the pump design from the early
models (8V) for improved cooling when slow moving (escort duty etc.)
K12's have also got the same pump design....where the pump spins around
50% faster due to the gear ratio.


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K75cster

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There has been many threads about how to dissipate heat from our RS and RT bikes, this one is shaping up to provide plenty of food for thought.


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RicK G

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Ok so nobody pissed in your cornflakes and most important is that THIS IS NOT AN ARGUEMENT
but you havent told us the nitty gritty of how you did it because I want to fit a cooler to my 750 Chookie if I ever finish the thing.


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Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

16Back to top Go down    I can smell piss. on Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:22 am

Motorbike Mike

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RicK G wrote:Ok so nobody pissed in your cornflakes and most important is that THIS IS NOT AN ARGUEMENT
but you havent told us the nitty gritty of how you did it because I want to fit a cooler to my 750 Chookie if I ever finish the thing.
The conversion will be done today if I ever finish my breakfast. This may take a while as it's not easy trying eat your cereal while pinching your nose because someone pissed on your cornflakes.

I wish I'd not started on the f#####g oil/water pump now. My time would have been better spent making a "piss filter"....hang on, I think I can see one in the bottom of my motor!! Twisted Evil



    

Motorbike Mike

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After a partial engine strip and rebuild it's done. I can now start to put the bike back together with its new oil/water pump, not in this picture but more to follow.



This isn't possible on a K75 using BMW parts but "could" be done.

    

Inge K.

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I would guess that the big secret looks like this:


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Motorbike Mike

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Hooray cheers
If you look at the picture of my motor you can see the new output shaft peeping out.
Will you be modifying your bike Inge?



There's no big secret, it's just a pain in the arse trying to find out which parts to use without resorting to alternative engineering solutions. That would have been my next step if that output shaft didn't fit but in typical BMW fashion, they made the least amount of alterations as possible for development progress.
I'd found a small engineering company to make an intermediate drive shaft from a K12RS output shaft and and earlier drive shaft but worried about stacking drive components on an engine that will be mercilessly thrashed around a track. I'd expect it to be OK for a road bike.

I was also in the fortunate position of only just having the engine and gearbox in the bare frame when I made the decision to change output shafts.



Last edited by Motorbike Mike on Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I felt like it.)

    

Kyle10

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Mike, you have no business having an engine that clean.


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Motorbike Mike

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Vapour blasting while the engines in bits works wonders. Very Happy

    

Kyle10

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Incredible. Are you going to leave it in the white?


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Motorbike Mike

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Yeah, I like the bare alloy.

    

Kyle10

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Definitely. Don't know if you have used Gibbs Lubricant, but consider it. Your alloy will drink it up and you'll have that finish far longer.
Just a thought (not affiliated)


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RicK G

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Inge K. wrote:I would guess that the big secret looks like this:

Well this means it will be shelved and left for when I have a spare engine to play with. I was hoping the shaft extension was on the pump shaft but not so.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

K75cster

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Inge K. wrote:I would guess that the big secret looks like this:


So this is a balance shaft with the slots in it for the 1200 pump but will fit an 1100 engine, so it came out of which engine??????? Trust me I don't know I only have the 75 to play with.


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The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

charlie99

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looking at the historic pics of the different versions ...I would hazard a guess that they tried improving the oil pressure ( the smaller gear interference creates higher pressure) on the k1100 then they did a change again for the k1200 with a larger tooth interference (higher volume but lower pressure_) ...but good to see a higher gearing to push more through, would like to see more details on how the oil cooler pics off the pump body though

not many of us have played with the k1200 ...prolly cause the buy price is just too high for many ...especially out here



thanks for the pics


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Motorbike Mike

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K75cster wrote:
Inge K. wrote:I would guess that the big secret looks like this:


So this is a balance shaft with the slots in it for the 1200 pump but will fit an 1100 engine, so it came out of which engine??????? Trust me I don't know I only have the 75 to play with.
This type of output shaft is used in the oil cooler spec K1200RS/GT. The LT doesn't get the oil cooler

    

Motorbike Mike

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charlie99 wrote:looking at the historic pics of the different versions ...I would hazard a guess that they tried improving the oil pressure ( the smaller gear interference creates higher pressure) on the k1100 then they did a change again for the k1200 with a larger tooth interference (higher volume but lower pressure_) ...but good to see a higher gearing to push more through, would like to see more details on how the oil cooler pics off the pump body though

not many of us have played with the k1200 ...prolly cause the buy price is just too high for many ...especially out here



thanks for the pics
Hi Charlie,
Here are some images of the 1200 pump assembly. The cooler take off is an intermediate casting that pushes the pump unit 28mm further forward, hence the longer output shaft. As for gear ratios, more volume would be needed to feed both a cooler and the engine, I suppose volume would be preferable to even more pressure.
I hope the images give you a better idea of what I have here. It will be on the motor today if the wife (Fun Police) leaves me alone for long enough. Very Happy







This is the easiest way I've found to get the whole lot together if you're not separating all drive components. The gearbox drops straight on, tighten everything up, drop it down and put the frame on top-easy!

    

Motorbike Mike

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Back together-ish for the second and hopefully last time this week.

    

charlie99

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just looking at that mike is that a k100 rear bevel drive fitted up ?

wer'nt they paralever as stock ?...hmmm

hmm kinda looks like a sandwich plate as used in many cars if I'm not mistaken ...although the sandwich plate is usually at the oil filter and external to the main part of the engine ...thanks for the pics indeed
new insight right there


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Motorbike Mike

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charlie99 wrote:just looking at that mike is that a k100 rear bevel drive fitted up ?

wer'nt they paralever as stock ?...hmmm

hmm kinda looks like a sandwich plate as used in many cars if I'm not mistaken ...although the sandwich plate is usually at the oil filter and external to the main part of the engine ...thanks for the pics indeed
new insight right there
I do use an early Mono lever on the rear because it's 40mm, yes 40mm shorter and lighter than the Paralever rear. I've run both and once you're on the pace, I couldn't find any difference.

    

BIG D

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Cool

"Blimey" every days a school day on this forum learned a lot here nice job mike.

D

    

Motorbike Mike

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BIG D wrote:Cool

"Blimey" every days a school day on this forum learned a lot here nice job mike.

D
It's a school day for me too. I'm on here to learn what I can and try to pass on what little I know.
It's good to share....unless it's my beer!

    

K75cster

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I like the way you install the gearbox and final drive, seems to me if you wanted to you can hook the final drive up to one of the rafters and keep the universal joint rubber from being leant on by the swing arm, and play at all the things you need to put on. maybe even hoist it up that way and install the frame?
Now the finished product is a K100 for racing with a K1100 motor and K1200oilpump/water pump, so it will look like a 16valve K100 race bike yes?


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The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

Motorbike Mike

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It will look like a 16 valver for the time being. It is apparently possible to make the 8 valve cam cover fit with some alterations. The guys who race Minis often fit 16v heads but disguise as an 8v as per their race rules.
You obviously can't hide where the injectors fit but it will be difficult to see this when the fairing is on.

I have my reasons for all this messing around. Firstly the 8v motor I have just taken out was good and fast but I wanted more because on track days it was difficult to get by modern bikes on the tight parts of a circuit only to be passed back on every straight. It struggled with cooling, hence the K12 oil/water pump set to get an oil cooler on board.
Secondly it must look like an 8v because I'm proud to say that it's the one and only K100 to have been accepted to ride at the Bikers Classics 3 day bike festival at Spa and they only take bikes manufactured after 1982. I had to dig deep to prove that BMW started producing the K100 in '82.

Thirdly, I like to ride something different.

    

charlie99

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giggles


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Motorbike Mike

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charlie99 wrote:giggles
Because??

    

charlie99

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oh just put it down to things we would like to do and things that are unachievable for the average bloke ... but by slight of hand.. who knows ?

hope you have the rs cams fitted to the k1100


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'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Inge K.

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charlie99 wrote:hope you have the rs cams fitted to the k1100

http://www.k100-forum.com/t9549p50-jj-cobas-k100r-flying-brick#125904


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Motorbike Mike

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charlie99 wrote:oh just put it down to things we would like to do and things that are unachievable for the average bloke ... but by slight of hand.. who knows ?

hope you have the rs cams fitted to the k1100
Yes the K12RS cams are in. I've read on here that some guys have fitted 1200 cams into 1100's and then taken them back out because they hit so hard when they start to do their magic-I do hope so. Twisted Evil

    

RicK G

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Yeah it was a bit much to have my K1100LT go vertical at the most unexpected moment, sort of exciting on a track bike but unwanted on a tourer.


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Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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So the K12 cams really made that much difference, what was overall power delivery like because my K1100LT has the flattest/fattest power curve I've ever come across? If I'm not in a hurry the gearbox is superfluous.

    

RicK G

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It didn't have the same power of a 1200RS but around 115HP I would guess. It would lift the front in 1st at WOT and make the front float a bit in 2nd but I learned not to snap the throttle on in 2nd as it would just go vertical. I have ridden a 1200RS since and it was not like that but far smoother and more power so I feel the difference is in the motronic and how it controls advance and fuel.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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Bigger throttle bodies and larger headers too.

    

K75cster

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From all this we are hoping you don't get passed down the straight from now on.


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Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

RicK G

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Having bigger diameter header pipes would benefit a K1100 enormously but fitting larger TBs would require a change of software because the air inducted is calculated by how much the throttle is open and the larger TBs could effectivly make it lean. The L Jetronic wont do this as the air volume is measured not calculated.
Using an O2 sensor may get round the problem but I certainly wouldn't use the CO2 pot.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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I have a couple of ECU's with different performance chips installed. I even have a chip with two switchable maps kindly given by a site member. They're going to be tried to see how I get on.
I looked into fuelling last year and it's an expensive mine field of an exercise. K1200 loom and management could be used and then I could fit a Power Commander that comes with a wide band lambda sensor.
For now I'll get it running and take it from there.

    

RicK G

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Mike if you want to seriously play with fuel injection then Mega/microsquirt is the way to go.
https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/megasquirt-assembled/microsquirt/?osCsid=8458fd523cc226b1d9a5c672b65b0329
It's all open source software which is one of the best bits.
You can buy DIY kits right through to the fully assembled thing and just bolt it on.



Last edited by RicK G on Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Phat Phingers)


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Motorbike Mike

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I've looked at that option already and it gets expensive when you add up all the bits needed but thanks anyway.

    

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