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1Back to top Go down    Valve shim tools on Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:42 pm

Dai

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-K100-K75-VALVE-SHIM-TOOL-BMW-1000-750-USED-/111946738045?hash=item1a108ba97d:g:Ex8AAOSwZtJW9DME


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:48 am

Snod Blatter

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Watched, will be doing this soon! Fed up with the poor economy Laughing


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1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:33 pm

Snod Blatter

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£40 with postage!! Time to sacrifice a screwdriver to the vice gods..


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:06 pm

Dai

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Just under buying a set from Ken Polenpol (???), so you did well there. The problem I found with Ken's tools is that the steel he uses is too soft; get the positioning wrong and it's too easy to slip and damage the edges. Blacksmith Adam is replicating them for me in hardened steel. Well, he will once he's finished building his new workshop!!!


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:16 pm

Snod Blatter

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I didn't buy it, I gave up when it went past £15 Laughing 

I see some people have managed to make tools to do this out of cheap shock adjusting C spanners, I have a couple. Will a magnet pluck the shims out? Why does it need to be a square with a tang on it?


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:45 pm

Holister

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The curved hook tool acts like a cam to depress the shim and bucket. The square tool is placed between the camshaft and the edge of the bucket to keep it in the depressed position while the shim is removed and replaced.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:36 pm

RicK G

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Be careful making them yourself as using soft steel will cause small slivers of steel to come away from the tool as it moves against the cam and then you have them in the system on the engine side of the oil supply. I don't think I need to say any more.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:33 am

duck

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If you know what you're doing it is possible to swap valve shims using the tip of a screwdriver to depress the cam bucket enough to swap cam shims.


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:35 am

Dai

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That's how I used to do Japanese bucket'n'shim models and truth to tell, I hated it. Then one day while doing a K1100 (Kawasaki! Very Happy ) someone gave me the correct Kwak tool and I never looked back. That particular tool is still in my garage but it hasn't been used in twenty-five or so years.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:33 am

RicK G

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If ever I pull the cams out I clean up the area of the cam where the tool slides and polish it, it's amazing what a difference it makes.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:05 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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Soft steel indeed.........

So the relevance of these photos is a memory of what transpired to be quite an infamous incident on the Cork Muskerry narrow gauge rail line many years back when a council stream roller and the train to Blarney were in collision, despite travelling in the same direction. Local rumour persists to this day that there was an unofficial race taking place.

Gaz80 travelled out this route [train tracks long since gone] with the Skroll on his way to Blarney and the Blarney Stone [not to be Konfused with Comberjohn's Weather Stone] and ended up at the old Blarney train station. 


station.




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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:44 pm

Snod Blatter

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Okay, so home made is probably bad. And cheap aftermarket tools are probably bad. So while I'm here learning about soft steel and trains, I may as well ask what is surely a stupid question and learn some more: Is it really too difficult to remove the cams instead? Turn the motor to somewhere where it's hopefully not pressing on too many valves, bit of Tipp Ex on the cam gears and chain, release tensioner, cams out.. Cams in lined up with Tipp Ex, tensioner back on, smug sense of self satisfaction at saving £50. No?

Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version?? Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:09 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Is a hardened steel tool really desirable for this job?  I would think that softer steel is less likely to make scratches or other marks on the contact points of the buckets.  If I am going to ding something I would rather it be the tool that I can clean up when the job is done.  Has anyone actually knocked chunks off of their shim tools?


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:21 pm

Holister

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Snod Blatter wrote:Okay, so home made is probably bad. And cheap aftermarket tools are probably bad. So while I'm here learning about soft steel and trains, I may as well ask what is surely a stupid question and learn some more: Is it really too difficult to remove the cams instead? Turn the motor to somewhere where it's hopefully not pressing on too many valves, bit of Tipp Ex on the cam gears and chain, release tensioner, cams out.. Cams in lined up with Tipp Ex, tensioner back on, smug sense of self satisfaction at saving £50. No?

Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version?? Very Happy
Not a stupid question BUT if you've ever replaced the timing chain you'd know its not as straightforward as that to get to the chain tensioner.
I bought my shim tools from Ken Lively in the US for about AU$48 including postage. I found the finish to be a little rough and I need to pack the spacer as its just a tad short to get the shim out. Motorworks have them for £43 (AU$68 no VAT). They have a proper handle and the finish looks well made. A better option by far imo.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:16 am

RicK G

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Is a hardened steel tool really desirable for this job?  I would think that softer steel is less likely to make scratches or other marks on the contact points of the buckets.  If I am going to ding something I would rather it be the tool that I can clean up when the job is done.  Has anyone actually knocked chunks off of their shim tools?
Yes I have seen it, fine slivers of steel. That's why I gave the advice.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:16 am

Dai

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Snod Blatter wrote:Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version?? Very Happy
Two hours on site and an hour on the phone sorting out an ignition problem... Shocked Very Happy


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun May 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Snod Blatter

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Kaptain Holister wrote:Motorworks have them for £43 (AU$68 no VAT). They have a proper handle and the finish looks well made. A better option by far imo.
And so, after measuring the clearances and finding three shims that needed changing, I went and bought the tools from Motorworks. I was immediately suspicious as it is painted, and surely the rough casting of the cam and the pressure of the bucket would scrape the paint off in no time? But better to give them the benefit of the doubt, Motorworks know what they're doing.. Right?

No. No they do not.

The first two shims were easy enough to extract, measure, and put back in. All the paint (and red oxide primer) scraped off the inside and outside of the tool, but that was expected. What was not expected was that the steel would be so incredibly soft that it got bitten hard by the buckets and the roughness of the cam, eventually getting chewed so much that it would not release itself from the cam! I had to press the bucket down with a screwdriver to get it out, and bent the special tool in the process. Check it:


I also had to keep filing it relatively smooth, as the buckets sliced the outside like butter and the cam roughened up the inside until the tool wouldn't slide around it any more. The small, well used hand file I was using also sliced through the tool without any bother, this steel is ridiculously soft.





I also bent it back into a straight enough shape without too much effort, just clamped the cam end in a vice and pulled on the handle. Yuck! It just about managed to remove three shims, replace the three shims, then remove them again and replace with new ones. But I don't think it could do another engine, this tool has had it. And of course there will still be little bits of it left behind in the engine, no way to clean it out properly without removing the cams..

Overall, decidedly unimpressed!


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun May 01, 2016 5:54 pm

Dai

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Try ringing Motorworks as I'd say that was not fit for purpose.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun May 01, 2016 7:25 pm

Holister

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I would agree with that!! Sounds like they've not been made by a toolmaker... and painted with red oxide...wtf.

Like I said above, I bought mine from Ken Lively in the US and they were reasonably well made. He uses hardened steel and they weren't hand forged like the Motorworks set look to be.

Try giving your camshaft area a good spray with something like carby cleaner or WD40 and then wash that out with brake cleaner. Spray from the top to wash debris down not in. Make sure you give thecams a splodge of engine oil before the covers go back on.

Rick made comments above about not using mild steel tools for this job.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Sun May 01, 2016 7:36 pm

Snod Blatter

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I cleaned off as much paint and swarf as I could, and then coated the new shims and their corresponding lobes with oil. I then put it back together and have run it, so it's a bit late to try and clean it all any more! For what it's worth, the engine seems perfectly happy but I haven't yet taken it for a proper spin. A bit noisier than before, but of course that is to be expected..

Has no one else bought these tools from Motorworks? I'd be interested in any other people's experiences with them. I would also guess that this tool started life as a big screwdriver, which has been formed into a new shape without being properly treated and this may explain why it seems so soft.. But it's just a guess.

The tool is beyond soft, it has to be seen to be believed. Or rather hand filed to be believed. For anyone who has the proper BMW tool, is it painted?


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Valve shim tools on Mon May 02, 2016 7:54 am

Dai

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Kaptain Holister wrote:Like I said above, I bought mine from Ken Lively in the US and they were reasonably well made. He uses hardened steel and they weren't hand forged like the Motorworks set look to be.
The one I got wasn't. It was beautifully cut but it's mild steel and didn't survive slipping off the side of a bucket. It's re-usable but I doubt I'd be able to do more than five or six engines before introducing it to the nearest trashcan. I persuaded Blacksmith Adam to forge one for me from hardened steel - it arrived yesterday and no bucket is going to get the better of that tool.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

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