BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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88

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I took the sump off the RS due to a seized bolt on the filter cover and was a bit perplexed by what I found.....



I picked out a few of the flakes which are quite soft in texture. 
Anybody seen anything like it or got any idea where they might have come off?


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88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

RicK G

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Your cam chain tensioner is failing Will


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@RicK G wrote:Your cam chain tensioner is failing Will

Thanks Rick G. That just earned me a beer....! I saw the photo Sunday and as I was out on the K yesterday was thinking the same thing.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 84,600 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,000 miles Damn K Pox
    

charlie99

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wow Will

surprising sight for sure


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Holister

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I found the same in my engine oil just last week..... but nowhere near as much as that tho!! Just a few very small bits. I determined they weren't metal as they would break under my finger nail. I suspected they were from the timing chain tensioning guides/tensioner. Will be doing that as soon as I get parts.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

88

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Thanks Rick G - I have an 8 valve kit here but I need the 16v kit for this ...buggah. Looks like I owe Olaf a Bierre Blonde!


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

brickrider2

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Why are those metal flakes not in the oil filter?  😕

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@brickrider2 wrote:Why are those metal flakes not in the oil filter?  😕

I could be wrong but I think the oil pump pumps the oil through the filter on its way around the engine. The mesh screen under the pump stops these bits getting into the pump which would explain why the are all in the one place but the oil filter stops the finer bits. I think the oil filter has a by pass if its blocked.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 84,600 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,000 miles Damn K Pox
    

kennybob

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Is that really metal particles of copper or brass--or is it the plastic from the chain slider?  It looks metallic in the photo but needs to be verified.

Heavy metal like brass probably won't get pulled thru the pump, but aluminum or plastic might.

    

RicK G

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There is a fine mesh filter at the bottom of the intake for the pump.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Holister

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@kennybob wrote:Is that really metal particles of copper or brass--or is it the plastic from the chain slider? It looks metallic in the photo but needs to be verified.

Heavy metal like brass probably won't get pulled thru the pump, but aluminum or plastic might.
See my post #5 above.
At first glance, they looked metalic but I determined they weren't as it would break under my fingernail. They certainly looked like bits of bronze but I don't know of any bronze parts. I'm pretty sure they're from the timing chain tensioner guides.

Any particles of a certain mass will settle in the bottom of the sump pan. Also the pre-filter on the oil intake will prevent larger particles from getting sucked up thru the filter.... so they are effectively trapped in the pan.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

charlie99

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just a thought here ...could this be flakes of aluminium off the block sheered off by the timing chain slop ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Holister

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Could be Charlie. They seem fairly soft to me but won'tknow for sure till we have a look. Cheers


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@charlie99 wrote:just a thought here ...could this be flakes of aluminium off the block sheered off by the timing chain slop ?

Either way it points to a possible timing chain and tensioner issue. I would replace the chain and tensioner and guides all the bits.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 84,600 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,000 miles Damn K Pox
    

88

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I would say definitely not aluminium. I had the same experience as the Captain. They are quite soft and picking them up in your nails is enough to disintegrate the smaller ones. I found it hard to get large enough pieces to pick up for examination.


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

kennybob

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Maybe use a spoon to gather some up and spread it on a paper towel--the oil will wick away and your left with the 'gold' on top

    

charlie99

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only other thought I had was ...perhaps some paint - stuff off the outside of the oil filter ?

in any case a mystery till you get the rest of it opened up


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Holister

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Not flakes of paint charlie. They're lumps.

Will, strange how this has happened to two MarrakeshrRed K1100RS at the same time. Wonder if there are any others out there that have experienced the same.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Holister

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Well, I changed the timing chain and guides on the weekend (a little different to the K100). There was very minimal wear on the bottom tensioner guide and the rest was in good condition... even the chain. Nothing to suggest that the guides had been chewed out. Although there was no evidence in the records I got with the bike of the chain being changed, I'm going to assume that that work has been done in the last 20 or 30k or so and that these strange plastic looking lumps are remnants floating around the bottom of the sump from previously chewed out guides. Next oil change I need to remove the sump plate to repair the gasket there so I'll be able to clean it out properly. I'm guessing I'll find more strange lumps.

I'm interested to hear what you find in yours Will.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

88

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Well I changed the chain and guides/tensioner arm and could not see any source of wear that could account for what was in the sump. Judging by the condition of the guides I concluded that they were done at some point in the past and that the crud was perhaps there from the previous set. I can see or think of no other explanation.

Here's what I took out...I know the ones on the bullion brick are far more worn and the chain on the RS wasn't that bad either.


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

88

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Well I changed the chain and guides/tensioner arm and could not see any source of wear that could account for what was in the sump. Judging by the condition of the guides I concluded that they were done at some point in the past and that the crud was perhaps there from the previous set. I can see or think of no other explanation.

Here's what I took out...I know the ones on the bullion brick are far more worn and the chain on the RS wasn't that bad either.



I also found some damage on the sprocket teeth, like it was dropped. I took this as evidence of work in the past too.
 


All has been filed down and looks shiney and new now  Cool


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

charlie99

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pretty deep grooves on those guides Will

I' d be guessing that the guide was using the roller of the chain  rather the edge for tensioning on the arc tensioner guide ? 

how was the roller part of the chain ...any movement - slop in any of them ?

I still cant think of anywhere that has brass in the engine ...maybe except the front output shaft bearing surface ring(6)  or the bush at the end of the output shaft (2) ?   perhaps this is what is called fretting of some metal ....then over time ...well you can guess the rest  ?
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01Output shaft111211461785$360.25+core
only in conjunction with
--Idler111211461498$193.14+core
--ABSORBER GEAR WHEEL111211461499$534.86+core
--Absorber511211461541$13.30
--Spring111211464519$22.12
02Bush6X12X12111211461539$14.61
03Absorber111211460883
04Bracket111211460356$7.06
05Cover lidD=12MM107119937220$1.84ENDED
05Cover lidD=12MM107119906393
06INNER BEARING RING22X26X2,0111211460370$40.54
07SNAP RINGD=22MM111211460373$0.81
08Needle bearing26X34X16111211460376$17.48
09SNAP RINGD=34MM111211460379$1.87
10ABSORBER GEAR WHEEL111211461499$534.86+core
only in conjunction with
--Idler111211461498$193.14+core
--Absorber511211461541$13.30
--Spring111211464519$22.12
11Grooved ball bearing83,5X50X16111211465278$103.35+core
11Grooved ball bearing80X50X16112/198511211460472$45.76
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
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12Lock Ring50X2112/198507119934250$1.80
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
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12Lock Ring112/198511211461755$2.61
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
.
13Absorber511211461541$13.30
13Absorber511211460231$13.30
only applies to
--ABSORBER GEAR WHEELX11211460903$326.60ENDED
14O-ring19X4111211460456$1.67ENDED
15COMPRESSION RING111211460696$6.03
16Hex nutM20X1,5111211460797$12.16ENDED
17Spring108/198911211461532$6.68SI 1103185
18Idler108/198911211461753$355.58+core
19Shim1,60MM108/198911211461742$12.52
19Shim1,75MM108/198911211461743$12.52
19Shim1.90MM108/198911211461744$12.52
19Shim2,05MM108/198911211461745$12.52
Notes

  • +core = plus core charge (possibility of a return of the old part)
  • ENDED = the part has been discontinued (no longer available).
  • SI = Service Information

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__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

88

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The tensioner guide wasn't down to the rollers Charlie from what I could see and the chain had very little variance from the new on a sideways bend. Still a bit mystified.


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

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