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1Back to top Go down    Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:09 pm

umichchris

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Hello All,

I have a 1992 K100RS and i really like the style of wheel found on some older K bikes. I currently have the 3 spoke style (which is a bit wider) than the older multi-spoke version. I am curious if i can directly bolt on the older version or are the offsets different from wheel to wheel? I did a quick search on the site, but it looked mostly like threads about putting on larger k1100 wheels rather than what im inquiring about (albeit i understand most people are looking for a wider wheel while im considering going with a more narrow wheel).

Here is a picture of my bike and its wheels:



and here is a picture of the style of wheel I'd like to install (after having it powder coated gloss black of course):





i figured i had better ask the question now before searching online for the wheels, buying them and then encountering issues trying to install them. thank you for your help!

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:13 pm

BobT

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Front wheel may be a problem as the 16v 3 spoke wheels have floating disks and the earlier bikes have solid mounted ones. Rear wheel should fit easily but why? You limit yourself to skinny old technology tyres by doing that.

    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:39 pm

umichchris

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@BobT wrote:Front wheel may be a problem as the 16v 3 spoke wheels have floating disks and the earlier bikes have solid mounted ones. Rear wheel should fit easily but why? You limit yourself to skinny old technology tyres by doing that.
yes, i knew that push-back was coming. honestly its just a style thing. i just want to do my homework on how to make it happen before i start buying parts...this is part of a suite of changes i am researching in order to customize the bike to my tastes - some will be purely cosmetic upgrades (like this), others hopefully will improve the performance. thanks for the info!

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:58 pm

RicK G

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The rear Y spoke will probably touch the swingarm unless you use the monolever rear drive and to do a Y spoke conversion to the front you will find it easier to put a complete K100 LT front end on. It is a very impractical conversion and to be quite honest a giant backward step just for the sake of looks.
If you like the look of the Y spoke wheels it would probably be easier and more practical to get a K100 LT and strip it.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:04 pm

umichchris

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@RicK G wrote:The rear Y spoke will probably touch the swingarm unless you use the monolever rear drive and to do a Y spoke conversion to the front you will find it easier to put a complete K100 LT front end on. It is a very impractical conversion and to be quite honest a giant backward step just for the sake of looks.
If you like the look of the Y spoke wheels it would probably be easier and more practical to get a K100 LT and strip it.


oh ok, good things to consider. ive always my entire life extremely disliked a three-spoke wheel no matter the application. so this is something i definitely plan to address no matter what. perhaps i should examine a spoked wheel conversion from the K1100 bikes then...

    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:29 pm

RicK G

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The spoked wheel conversion would be a little more simple but costly. However they do look very good with the GS style spoked wheels.
I have a R1100GS spoked wheel on a K75 Adventure bike I am building and it sits well in the paralever swingarm.
I am not sure which front wheel you can use but there was a document posted here from the Flying brick site that gave some good info on swapping wheels about. A google search here will probably reveal it. I cant find it but that is not at all unusual. Very Happy

What is unusual is that I found some info


[size=32]Cast and spoked wheels for K and Oilheads[/size]
Wheel swapping is limited by a few mechanical features which result in different wheel dimensions. The wheel configuration is affected by things like:

  • Radial or bias (K11 only)
  • ABS or not (5-spoke ABS2 only)
  • Wheel-mounted or hub-mounted rear rotor
  • Speedometer drive or not

I started this project trying to figure out which 5-spoke wheels I could fit to my R1100RS, and uncovered a large variety of wheel configurations. Find a wheel with the same features and geometry as the one you have, and you have a good candidate for a swap. Please note that there is a lot of information to be considered and some of this may be inaccurate. It is a good starting place if you're trying to find out what wheel works with what bike (like if you seesome mystery wheel on eBay or at a flea market).
R1200C and "CAN-bus bike' wheels are skipped, as they are basically non-interchangeable with other BMWs. Fronts might be.
Note: Cast ABS rings are for ABS2, and slotted stamped ABS rings are for iABS. I have successfully used a slotted ABS ring on my ABS2 front brake, and a friend has successfully used a cast ABS ring on his iABS rear brake. However, this should not be taken as a guarantee that they are compatible. Safety dictates that you should observe the wheel speed sensors with an oscilloscope and satisfy yourself that an adequate signal is being reliably sent to the ABS unit.
If you find an error or have additional information, please let me know. However, please DON'T ask me what will or won't work. Anything I could tell you would come from the information here. You need to figure it out. If you can't, you shouldn't be messing with the wheels.
Fitting a 5-spokewheel to your 3-spoke Oilhead:

  • The fronts are basically interchangeable, but you will have to find the right brake rotors and ABS ring. You need:

    • 5-spoke rim with speedo sensor mounting (R1150, not Rockster).
    • 305mm 5-bolt brake rotors (Oilhead wire spoke wheels or pre-EVO K1200 or R1100S).
    • stamped ABS ring if the brake rotormounting surfaces are 116.5mm apart, and cast ring if the mounts are about 111.5mm apart. I don't think the latter exists, but check.
    • R1150 speedometer drive unit.
    • R1100GS rotor mounting hardware kit. The parts are available as a kit for the GS, but only as individual parts for the R1150 bikes. The R1150 hardware is very expensive, possibly because the EVO brakes usea stronger grade of bolt.


  • On the rear, you will probably want to use the 5" rim, as the 5.5" rim will be too hard to install and might rub the swingarm. With RS-style (teeth facing outwards) ABS rings, you will also need to remove the three bolts securing it because they will interfere with the rim. Although a wheel without the brake rotor would be simpler, the wheel with attached rotor might work properly for bikes with the floating caliper (RT and spoked Roadster). I haven't tried it.

Components
Front Brake Rotors:

  • 4-bolt 4-spoke wheels and K75 3-spoke, for 2-valve K-bikes and Airheads, accept the fixed 285mm brake rotors with carriers which mount with 4 bolts near the axle.
  • 3-spoke wheels (all radials plus K11LT) accept the 6-bolt 305mm floating rotors. The ABS ring mounts to the carrier with 6 small bolts.
  • 5-spoke wheels accept semi-floating 5-bolt rotors. Older brakes use a 305mm rotor with a 40mm surface, and EVO brakes use a 320mm rotor.

    • 34 11 2 335 747/8 early R11S, unidirectional
    • 34 11 2 338 228 320/33/5 EVO Tokico R1150RS/R/R11S/K12R/LT
    • 34 11 2 338 232 320/37/4.5 EVO Brembo, R1150RT K12RS/GT
    • 34 32 7 674 535 R12RT/ST/S/F800 bidirectional


  • Oilhead wire-spoke wheels all use 5-bolt 305mm diameter, 40mm wide rotors, even forEVO brakes. On R1100 wheels the ABS ring mounts with 5 small bolts to the hub, while it is mounted between the rotor and the wheel (using the rotor bolts) on the R1150 wheels.

    • 34 11 2 314 893/4 305/40/4.5 left and right rotors. Unidirectional hole pattern. The only difference is the side that the words are stamped on
    • 34 11 7 676 550 305/40/4.5 5-bolt rotor for R1200GS. Bidirectional hole pattern.



Rear brake rotors

  • The R11xx 5-spoke and wire-spoke wheels have 275mm 5-bolt wheel-mounted rotors. 3-spoke, Y-spoke and K12 5-spoke wheels use hub-mounted rotors.

Speedo drives

  • All R1100 except the R1100S, and all R1150 except the Rockster require front wheels to have a speedometer drive fitting on the left side. K-bikes, R1100S and R1150 Rockster do not require this.

Front ABS rings

  • Cast 6-hole (small hole) ABS rings are used on 3-spoke front wheels. This is considered part of the brake rotor carrier.
  • Cast 5-hole (small hole) ABS rings 34 51 2 314 784 are used on R1100 wire-spoked wheels.
  • Cast 5-hole (large hole) ABS rings 34 51 2 330 672 are used on 5-spoke wheels with shorter mounting standoffs on the left (K12 and R11S up to '01)
  • Stamped 5-hole (large hole) ABS rings are used on 5-spoke and spoked wheels with full-height mounting standoffs on the left (IABS brakes).

Rear ABS rings

  • Only wheel-mounted ABS rings are significant here, and the ABS2 R1100S is the only bike that uses a different rear rim when ABS is present.

Axles

  • K75/K100 have 25mm axles
  • Oilheads and K12 have 20mm axles.

4-spoke(Y-spoke) alloys for Airheads and 2-valve K
Front
These are the same for K and Airheads, and accept fixed 285mm brake rotors which mount with 4 bolts near the centre of the wheel. Bearings accept 25mm axles.

  • Silver 2.5x18 36 31 1 451 897
  • Black 2.5x18 36 31 1 457 361

Rear

  • Silver disc 2.75x17, 36 31 1 451 243
  • Black disc 2.75x17, 36 31 1 457 364
  • Silver drum 2.75x18, 36 31 1 451 831 (some K75)
  • Silver drum, 2.5x18, 36 31 1 452 252 (Airheads)

3-spoke alloys for old K and R1100
K75 and K1100LT used bias-ply tires and had different dimensions. The radial-tired K1100RS, K1, K100RS-4V and R1100 used rims of the same dimensions. In addition to silver, K11RS rims were available in gold, K100RS-4V were available in white, and all K1 rims were yellow.
Front
The Oilhead front rims have the speedo drive flange and the K fronts do not. For radials, the front ABS ringhas 6 tabs and mounts to the left brake rotor carrier.

  • 2.5x18, 36 31 2 312 809 for 305mm floating brake rotors (K1100LT)
  • 2.5x18, 36 31 2 310 734 for 285mm fixed brake rotors (K75)
  • 3.5x17, 36 31 2 311 272 (silver), 36 31 2 323 775 (gold), 36 31 2 310 708 (yellow), or 36 31 2 312 867 (white)
  • 3.5x17 with speedo drive attachment, 36 31 2 311 220 (Original R1100)

Rear
The radial rear rim is dimensionally the same for Ks and Oilheads. The brake rotor and ABS ring mount to the hub, not the rim.

  • 3.0x17, 36 31 2 311 149 (K1100LT)
  • 3.0x17, 36 31 2 311 887 (K75, don't know the difference to above)
  • 4.5x18, 36 31 2 311 275 (silver), 36 31 2 323 756 (gold), 36 31 2 310 711 (yellow), or 36 31 2 312 870 (white)

5-spoke alloys for K12 and new Oilheads
For Oilheads, especially the R1100S and the different R1150R variants, these rims are now available in many colours.
Front
Early 5-spoke wheels had shorter mounting standoffs on the left side for ABS versions, because the 5mm-thick cast ABS ring is mounted between the brake rotor and the standoff. These measure 111.5mm across the rotor mounting surfaces whereas the non-ABS measured 116.5mm. Later versions were all 116.5 because the stamped ABS rings had very thin mounting flanges. With the stamped ABS ring on the left and a washer on the right, the new rotors are actually 118mm apart. Most R1150 models have the speedo drive fitting (R11S, Rockster and K12 don't) and K1200LT front wheels have heavier flanges. All accept 20mm axles.

  • No speedo, 111.5, 36 31 2 335 277 or 36 31 7 650 032 (K12 or R11S, cast ABS ring)
  • No speedo, 116.5, 36 31 2 335 273 or 36 31 7 650 026 (K12 , R11S, Rockster non-ABS or IABS)
  • Speedo, 116.5, (R1150 non-ABS or IABS)
  • No speedo, 111.5, heavy-duty 36 31 2 335 679 (K12LT)
  • No speedo, 116.5, heavy-duty, (K12LT IABS)

Rear
R1100S and R1150 have standoffs for mounting the brake rotor to the wheel, and have a much greater offset (much thicker mounting flange). Early R1100S wheelsare ABS-specific due to the mounting thickness of the ABS ring ("short" indicated below). K12 has the brake rotor mounted on the hub like the older R1100 bikes have. These are all available in 5" and 5.5" sizes.

  • 5" without rotor 36 31 2 331 909 (K12)
  • 5" with rotor, short 36 31 2 331 693 (Oilhead, cast ABS ring)
  • 5" with rotor, tall36 31 2 331 692 (Oilhead non-ABS or Evo)
  • 5.5" without rotor 36 31 2 335 268 (K12)
  • 5.5" with rotor, short 36 31 2 331 694 (Oilhead, cast ABS ring)
  • 5.5" with rotor, tall 36 31 2 335 284 (Oilhead non-ABS or Evo)

Wheel Bearings
20x47x14 SKF 6204-2RS1
25x52x20.6 INA 3205-2RS F0712
25x47x12 FAG 6005
Front Wheel Chart
All are 3.5"x17" except where noted
Description
Brake rotor mounting
ABS ring
Casting number
Wheel bearing
Part number
36 31 +
Notes
Airhead/K 4-spoke
Fixed, 4-bolt, 285mmOn brake rotor1 451 897 silver
1 457 361 black
2.5"x18"
2-valve K 3-spoke
Fixed, 4-bolt, 285mmOn brake rotor36 31 2 310 18725x47x16 R
25x47x12 L
2 310 734 silver2.5"x18"
K1100LT 3-spoke bias
floating 6-boltOn rotor carrier36 31 2 312 81025x47x16 R
25x47x12 L
2 312 809 silver2.5x18"
R1100 3-spoke
floating 6-boltOn rotor carrier36 31 2 312 28220x47x14 R
25x52x20.6 L
2 311 220 silverSpeedo drive
K11RS, K100RS 4V
K13-spoke radial
floating 6-boltOn rotor carrier36 31 2 310 25225x52x20.6 R
25x47x12 L
2 311 272 silver
2 323 775 gold
2 310 708 yellow
5-spoke K12LT ABS2
5-bolt 111.5mmCast2 335 66720x47x14 R1 335 679Reinforced
5-spoke K12LT IABS
5-bolt 116.5mmStamped20x47x14 R7 658 469 silver
K12RS/R11S
Rockster
5-bolt 111.5mmCast2 335 50720x47x14 R7 650 032 Silver
5-bolt 116.5mmStamped/none2 335 05020x47x14 R7 650 026 Silver
R1150RS/RT/R
5-bolt 116.5mmStamped/none2 335 50720x47x14 RSpeedo drive
Rear wheel chart
Description
Brake rotor
mounting
ABS ring
Size
Casting number
OA width
Mount
depth
Bolt
depth
Stub
depth
Part number
36 31 +
4-spoke Airhead (drum)
nonenone2.5x18"1 452 252 silver
4-spoke K75 (drum)
nonenone2.75x18"1 451 831 silver
4-spoke K75 (disc)
nonenone2.75x17"1 451 243 silver
1 457 364 black
3-spoke K75
nonenone3x17"36 31 2 310 1882 311 887 silver
3-spoke K100/1100 bias
nonenone3x17"36 31 2 310 188 typ A9620202 311 149 silver
3-spoke R11/K radial
nonenone4.5x18"36 31 2 310 2551142917202 311 275 silver
2 310 711 yellow
5-spoke K12
nonenone5x17"2 331 4681273514.5222 331 909 silver
5.5x17"1272 335 268 silver
5-spoke Oilhead ABS2
shortcast5x17"2 331 358?2 331 693 silver
5.5x17"2 331 694 silver
5-spoke Oilhead IABS or non-ABS
tallstamped
or none
5x17"2 331 357232 331 692 silver
5.5x17"2 331 351
2 335 051
23?2 335 284 silver
All dimensions in millimeters unless specified.
Spoke wheels
Application
Rim
Spoke
Offset
Note
R100R/GS rear
2.5x17153mm
R100R front
2.5x18
R100GS front
1.85x21
R1100GS front
2.5x19198mm
R1100GS/R rear
4x17177mm
R1100R front
2.5x18Different rim than R100R, same spoke


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:41 pm

robmack

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I posted my K-bike wheel compendium and a Russian GS spoked wheel alteration video on Motobrick. Download ... Read ... Enjoy.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:50 pm

umichchris

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@rick G and @RobMack

THANK YOU both for all the info, i love this forum, so helpful. the spoked wheel route def looks like the way to go. ill dive into this info asap!

    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:52 pm

KJustin

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Umichchris, if you are interested in what Rick G correctly calls a "giant step backwards" to get y-spoke wheels, I have have a full K100 front end: trees, forks (with newer seals), discs, calipers, MC/throttle, brake lines (probably should be replaced), and the wheel that you could plant on your bike. I also have the rear wheel. Rear would bolt-on, but I don't know if you'd need more spacers to clear the paralever. Rick could easily be correct about that being an issue.

I have all this stuff because I did the conversion going the other way: y-spoke to 3-spoke. Given the improvement that I experienced in upgrading to K1100 stuff, I can't really recommend that you do what I'm offering/suggesting. Personally, I'd go the spoke route if I were you. That will require a custom-fabricated front axle. However, if you were really set on a y-spoke set-up, I can offer one-stop shopping to you.

Shipping would be a bit pricey from Oregon (where I am) to CA, but I can make you good deal on all this stuff if you were interested. If so, send me a PM and we can talk further.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:40 am

Gaz

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Umichchris, I recently did a temporary wheel swap that might interest you.
I had a ride come up on short notice and my K75 rear tyre was too far gone to use and my K1100 was mid project so not available (and my boxer had the gearbox out - first world problem). So I tried the 3 spoke 3.00x17 with 140/80 17 tyre from the K1100 on the K75 and it fitted without any issues and I did the trip.
When it came time to change the wheel back to the K1100 I decided I would first try the Y spoke rear wheel off the K75 on the K1100 first. This Y spoke wheel is a 2.75 x 17 with a 140/80 17 radial tyre fitted. It fitted on the K1100 paralever rear drive without any issues and cleared the swing arm and brake caliper. I did not ride with it but don't see any reason why it could not be used. Obviously riding feel may be different but I use the same size tyre on both rear wheels.
Looking at your bike photo I assume it is a 16 valve and the rear drive I think would be the same as a K1100.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
Gaz
95 K1100LT 0232224; 90 K75 6427509; 87 R80G/S PD 6292136
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:56 am

AL-58

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The rear Y spoke will clear the paralever, I have a Y spoke fitted with a dirt tyre that I can swap into my Paralever 8v RT when the need occurs. It fits and runs fine.

Re the spoked wheel route I can offer the following. From the R1100/1150GS the front wheel is a 19" diameter, the R1100R (usually has a 17" alloy 3 spoke front) had a wire wheel option and the front wheel on that was 18" diameter. If you're a style monkey the 19" will be easy to source. If you want it to ride better with a better choice of road based tyres the 18" would be the best choice.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)sc25
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:06 pm

Two Wheels Better

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Whichever size you go for if you do go the spoked wheel route, you will have some roadblocks up the front with bearing sizes because Telelever axles are a different diametre from traditional front forks. Having an axle and apropriate spacers made up is the easiest, though probably not less costly, route. Since you already have four piston callipers and 305mm brake discs, that's covered. An 18" wheel will fit alright under the front mudguard, too, whereas a 19" will not. Some models of R1100R & R1100RT-P (California Highway Patrol spec'd a spoked wheel set in the early daze), as well as R100R & Mystik are the bikes to search an 18" spoked front front wheel from. You can also use a spoked rear from those models (R11) but you'll have to change the "face" of the final drive to accommodate the non-square pad Brembo calliper you'll have to source. It can be done.


__________________________________________________


'77 R75/7-1000cc, '87 K100RS, '93 K12 Big Block, '94 R100 Mystic, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150RT, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R & '09 K1300GT
Two Airheads, three Bricks, an Oilhead and a trio of new K's.
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:48 pm

umichchris

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Thank you guys for the multiple replies. I am going to shift to the spoked wheel option given all of the information provided here. I'm also thinking that the potentially wider wheel will perform much better than the skinner older option I original had envisioned.

I'm only 300 miles into my 1,000 mile break-in period (getting to know the bike & its characteristics before making any major changes).

And yes, its a 16v bike. While looking for a K100, I perused this and other forums and it was heavily suggested that the 16v bikes were the preferable option for the latest improvements available to the bike. The ABS system is disabled though...

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Interchange Wheel Styles on K100RS? on Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:05 pm

KJustin

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If you do get around to having an axle fabricated so that you can put a spoked wheel on the front, let me know. I appreciate that this might be a while and I'm in no rush. But I'm interested in putting spoked wheels on my bike.

In having some stuff machined recently I found that the cost was only slightly more to do multiples (10-20% more) once all the design and set-up was done (80-90% of the total cost). In other words, if you make more than one, I would be glad to help defray cost of multiples, which could save both of us some $$$.


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1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

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