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1Back to top Go down    (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:25 am

Ringfad

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K1 not starting.


Symptom after a very successful run I arrived at destination and parked bike. I needed to move it 5 mins later and it would not start.

As away from home initial troubleshooting was limited but did eliminate side stand switch and fuses.

At this stage fuel pump was not working.

Bike was then trailered home.



As I am fortunate to have a few spares I replaced the complete tank (from my K1100RS).

No change. I then tried a spare Motronic and success she started. Went back to old Motronic and again she started. Re-fitted original tank and again she started. Put everything back together and left bike for a few weeks.



Next time I went to start herI hadno luckbut fuel pump was activating.

What I have done so far.

1. She turns over perfectly so not the battery.

2. Fuel pump now activates when ignition switched on.

3. Motronic has been replaced with known good one.

4. I have checked the air and temp sensors and they meter out correctly from Motronic connector.

5. TPS also checked and set and it also meters out correctly

6. Have again replaced fuel tank with known good pump and filter and new fuel.

7. Cleaned and checked spark plugs and they all spark (outside the engine)

8. Removed injector rail and injectors are all working *

9. Tested Hall effect sensors (thanks CF for the guide) and they are both good.

10. Fuel pipes are on correctly

11. Side stand switch works correctly i.e. when sidestand down fuel pump does not activate.

12. All fuel injection rubbers were replaced last year and injectors serviced.

13. Bike completed a 3500 km run to Germany in May without any issue.

14. Starter motor cleaned and new brushes fitted.

15. Earth cables cleaned at Starter motor, under coils and under tank (frame).

I am now thinking the fuel pressure regulator may be the problem and have ordered a pressure meter to test.

* The injectors are pulsing fuel but unsure if enough is being delivered.

Any ideas welcome so I can get this K1 back running.



Last edited by Ringfad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:32 pm; edited 2 times in total


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:33 am

BobT

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My 16v was playing up in exactly the same way with all the things tried that you have done. In the end I took the starter motor out and cleaned up the brushes, put everything back together and now it starts with no problem.
It might have been that I cleaned the starter, it also might have been that I took so many electrical and earth connections off and then refitted them, not sure, but it works now.

    

3Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:12 am

Ringfad

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Thanks Bob

I will give that a try and report back.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:15 am

RicK G

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I would say bad connection/earth, possibly the plug for the motronic and the plug to the temp sensor just behind the radiator.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:09 pm

Ringfad

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Starter motor cleaned and new brushes fitted and some earthling points cleaned.

She now attempts to fire, at first attempt of starting, so definite progress.

Next step is to remove airbox and check temperature sensor.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:25 am

Ringfad

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She lives again . I replaced water temperature sensor and also new plugs and fuel filter and she eventually started.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:23 pm

Laitch

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Ringfad wrote:Next step is to remove airbox and check temperature sensor.
In post #1 you wrote in #4 of your list of things you had done so far that the temp sensor was metering correctly. In post #5 you wrote that you intended to check the temp sensor. Was the temp sensor you wrote about checking in post #5 and about replacing in post #6 the same one that was working in post #4? bounce


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1995 K75T 60,000 miles
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:54 pm

Ringfad

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Correct.

I am still not surethat I have solved this even though she is now starting.

Next test will be on the road, but will not be travelling too far initially.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Ringfad

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I have been starting the K1 every few days without a problem and decided today to go out for a run.

I have a test route I use that brings me through a village then dual carriageway and then onto a motorway.

Perfect on the way out and most of the way back, the K1 was running perfectly and even touched 130km on the motorway.

AsI slowed for the lights returning to the village she stalled, I tried to bump her in gear as I slowed but all I got was a bang as fuel burnt.

Then nothing - back to the drawing board Crying or Very sad .

She turns over, fuel pump is working but it was getting dark so not much time to trouble shoot

Luckily I was about 2km from home and a very kindbiker called Paul stopped and after replacing theMotronic (still nothing)he towed me home.

Interesting being towed on a K1 by a Honda Deauville Very Happy

Now I think I should re-test the hall effect sensors unless anyone as another ideas.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:24 pm

Crazy Frog

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I am sorry that I cannot be of a lot of help for you as I am not familiar with the Motronic system.
However, jumpinjimmy had a similar problem with a K100 2v.
I spent at least over a month on private Email with him to try to solve it without going to the expense of replacing everything.
At the end, it was the ignition computer that had an intermittent fault.
How we found it?
I asked him to put a gauge on the fuel pressure line and an induction timing light on the ignition when the bike was not starting. It allowed us to pinpoint the problem to the ignition computer.
This technique may help you to pinpoint your problem (Fuel injection or ignition).
If somebody send me a nice K1 or K100 4V for a year, I will be able to write a troubleshooting guide for the Motronic Razz .

Good luck to quickly find your problem.
CF


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:33 pm

Ringfad

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Thanks CF

I will keep working away on it.

My K1100RS has pretty much the same ignition system so I might 'borrow' a few parts from it to try and get this resolved.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:39 pm

Ringfad

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I might have it solved.

I swapped the ignition module (Bosch 0227100200) from by K1100RS and now have a spark.

This module fits to the front of the battery box on 16v's.

I refitted the old module and again a spark.

I have cleaned all the connections on the old oneand just back from a 50km run.

So either this connector was loose are I had a bad connection.


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:33 pm

Dai

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Well, the kettle's on if you want to come and test it...


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
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'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:15 pm

Crazy Frog

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The bloody connector.... The hint is when you remove it for battery recharge or replacement . If the bike doesn't want to start this is the first place to check.


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:43 pm

Ringfad

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Dai wrote:Well, the kettle's on if you want to come and test it...

Hi Dai

How would Sunday suit to test the kettle (and the K1) ?


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:07 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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My grandfather came from very close to where Dai and Comberjohn live.

I loved the place but the thing that always made me smile was that his family never had a kettle. But 'cattle' was what you boiled your water in for your tea.

Its a most beautiful part of the country and no wonder the Mournes are so famous. So Dai may be needing a bigger one. Next time I will deliver the Christmas puddings personally.

Wonder would we get Dai on the Wild Atlantic Way?


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:21 am

Dai

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Ringfad wrote:
Dai wrote:Well, the kettle's on if you want to come and test it...

Hi Dai

How would Sunday suit to test the kettle (and the K1) ?
Sunday's fine - I'm on call this weekend so I'm going nowhere. Approximate time?

Olaf - I did a big chunk of the Donegal section of the WAW last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:41 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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Dai

There is a big chunk a bit further south too.....including this:

You might spot Comberjohn on rightand Mike D on leftin the photo...! Simon midship and yours truly on the camera.

Mrs Doyle will make the tea!


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:05 pm

Ringfad

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Hi Dai

How would Sunday suit to test the kettle (and the K1) ?
Sunday's fine - I'm on call this weekend so I'm going nowhere. Approximate time?

How about 2-3 pm - I will drop over to Coney Island first to see the parents and then to you on the way home ( K1 permitting) ?


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:42 pm

Dai

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You're on. If no response from the house, knock on the garage door. I'm working on a BSA C15 ATM.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Ringfad

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Problem now seems to be resolved. It appears that the connection to this unit was bad or loose.



I managed a 402 km run yesterday with no issue and a very nice chat and cup of tea with Dai (Thanks Dai)


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;BMW;K100RS Style Black 1987 99K Km ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 42KKm ;BMW;K1100RSRed 1993 50k miles
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:40 pm

Dai

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You're welcome. I ate the other macaroon as soon as you left. I never did do any work on the C15 but I did solve the bouncy needle problem on LFB. Now to do something about that wristbreaker of a clutch...


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: (Solved) K1 (16V) not starting on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:16 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


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Clutch Dai well mine was like that and a nice new BMW cable sorted it. I know its all good and to spec because it got a new friction plate and everything in there lubed up. If it was previously good when my cable went like yours it was badly frayed where the sun doesn't shine. Only found the damage after taking the cable out.

Macaroons.....my mum use to make those....


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

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