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1Back to top Go down    Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:29 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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For about two months, I experienced clutch slipping. Then I went on a 200km journey and I could smell what seemed like a burning clutch disc on my way back to Accra. About 2km from my home and the bike wouldn't move irrespective of the gear or rpm of the bike.

I was very busy with my wedding preparations last September, and lost my Father In-Law just 5 days after my wedding and was busy with funeral arrangements too so have packed the bike for about 4 months now.


I am not very busy and I want to go back to repairing the bike. Just in case It's a worn-out clutch disc, how do I go about replacement/repair? Remember I live in Ghana, West Africa, so do recomend alternate parts I can get from the market here.
Thanks for your assistance.


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:14 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Congratulations on your marriage, and belated condolences on the loss of your father-in-law. 

First thing I would do is double check the adjustment of the clutch cable and see if that has any effect on power transfer.  I don't expect it will, but it is an obvious thing and doesn't require any disassembly.

Then I would disassemble the drive train starting at the final drive inspecting every part as I go.  It is possible that the drive shaft splines may be stripped.  It is also possible that the final drive is bad.

Last is pulling the transmission and getting to the clutch.  I think you will find a glazed and burnt clutch disc.  I have read somewhere that a  replacement may be a Volkswagen part.  Don't know how to confirm that, maybe one of the others here might know.

While you are in there, it may be a good time to replace the clutch hub o-ring.  There are a few other screws and nuts that need to be replaced when you go in there as well.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:49 pm

RicK G

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The clutch plate is the obvious thing but only disassembly will tell the truth. As .75 has said inspect everything on the way into the clutch.
The VW clutch plate is not a very good option and I cant help with which model. Best to inspect first and then buy from UK.
I recall you saying that the import of anything was complicated and expensive  but in this case there is no real practical alternative. You may be able to get a secondhand clutch from Motoworks or James Sherlock but that can be almost as expensive as new.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:57 pm

Point-Seven-five

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I just did a search and a quick scan of some threads on the VW clutch.  It appears it is doable, BUT requires machining the disc and some shimming.  Bottom line is that it is not practical.

However, I did see where a few people have taken their old clutch to a truck clutch shop and had the friction material replaced for about half the cost of a new BMW part.  I would guess that this may be a viable approach in your part of the world where nothing is discarded.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down    Thanks for quick replies on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:36 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Thanks Rick and .75. 
I really like the "where nothing is discarded" part Very Happy.
By the way, is there a how to somewhere for the disassembly and reassembly?


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:11 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Here is an official factory manual that you can download and save:

http://www.k100.biz/pdf/OFF/K100_K75_2V_eng.pdf


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:02 am

Laitch

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@emmanuelfiadjoe wrote:By the way, is there a how to somewhere for the disassembly and reassembly?
This video should be of some help. They take the clutch pack apart, too.


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:49 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Thanks Laitch and .75


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

9Back to top Go down    Reassembly help on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:55 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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i have managed to get the clutch out and have it lined.
i need help with the following issues:

  1. the thickness of the lined plate is 7mm, i suppose its more than the original. is there any potential issue if i fix it, how do i avoid the potential issue. nb, the guys at the machine shop said they used the thinnest material available.
  2. i placed a mark across the clutch housing cover and the fittings in it. however, the housing cover turned many times in the process of slacking its retaining bolts. also, the mark i placed on the clutch plate disappeared after it went through the lining process at the machine shop. how do i fix these things back like they were before, bearing in mind that 180 degrees offset warning in the manual and videos.


thanks


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:20 pm

RicK G

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I have put quite a few back together without knowing how the plates were before and it was OK and no vibrations.
Make sure to use the right 50% moly grease on the splines.
I don't think the extra thickness will cause big problems but it may make the clutch a bit heavier and you will have to be careful to get the adjustment correct or it could drag a bit.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:01 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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thanks, but I dont think I will get the right moly grease here. I bought an abro grease, wont that do? thanks a lot


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:14 am

brickrider2

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Can you explain what abro grease might be?

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:18 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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its a very thick grease that mechanics here apply to bearings, gears, shaft parts, etc


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:29 am

Laitch

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@brickrider2 wrote:Can you explain what abro grease might be?
I can, I can!—through the miracle of the Internet. It's grease made or supplied by ABRO. Laughing

What is needed is a thick, fibrous compound that will stay in place. The only product in the ABRO line like that seems to be Super Heavy Duty Grease #3—GR303. Honda Moly or Staburags NBU30 PTM re-greasing intervals can be from 20–40 thousand miles. Maybe Super Heavy Duty Grease #3 will last that long but it would be wise to check after about 5000 miles or so. Anything lighter than that will need to be reapplied often and even then may not be suitable to reduce friction sufficiently to prevent excessive wear.


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:32 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Ok Laitch, will check the lable on the Abro. But taking off the whole thing often is tedious


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:42 am

Laitch

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@emmanuelfiadjoe wrote:Ok Laitch, will check the lable on the Abro. But taking off the whole thing often is tedious
That's right, it is tedious. That's why products like Honda Moly and Staburag  NBU30 PTM are used. They extend the lubrication interval to a tolerable length. They also are excellent at reducing friction. The ABRO product's abilities for successful K-bike spline lube are not widely known. You will be a pioneer!


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:55 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Pioneer, a risk taker i guess, a very big risk taker I am. But I guess I have no choice in my part of the world here. Will let you know how it all goes.
Thank you all a lot


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:03 am

RicK G

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Castrol and Shell make an Optimol grease which is white and used in cookers of cannerys it is often called cannery grease.
It is almost identical to the Honda moly. Any grease that is recommended for splines will do the job.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:08 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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thanks a lot Rick, I will check those up too in the market


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:33 am

Dai

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I use Optimol. When I came to check the splines after one year the grease was still very visible and I didn't need to do anything. I haven't bothered looking this year - maybe next Christmas. I do around 15,000 miles (24,000Km) a year.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

21Back to top Go down    Two Challenges on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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I have installed the clutch, gear box, swing arm, and final drive.
I haven't installed the rear wheel, exhaust pipes, and muffler.


  1. The clutch is working now I think as I'm unable to turn the wheel when the bike is in gear. HOWEVER, the clutch lever is unable to disengage the clutch no matter the adjustment, including the adjustment procedure from the BMW Manual.
    ALSO, I turned the bolt used to adjust the free play "A" at the clutch lever and at a point, the bolt came off, but I reinstalled the bolt. Since then, when I pull the clutch lever, it doesn't return automatically (I mean the lever). So now, the clutch lever is unable to disengage the clutch.
  2. The last time I sparked the bike was five months ago. I decided to start the bike today but it couldn't start. I have attached the sound it makes when starting to this post. The fuel pump is ok I think (because one os the fuel hose got burst and fuel was gushing out, but I have changed it. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Byydxg1MSudASy1zbEl0RVR3M1k



Last edited by emmanuelfiadjoe on Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:38 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Inserting new link for audio)


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:09 pm

Laitch

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@emmanuelfiadjoe wrote:

  1. The clutch is working now I think as I'm unable to turn the wheel when the bike is in gear. HOWEVER, the clutch lever is unable to disengage the clutch no matter the adjustment, including the adjustment procedure from the BMW Manual.


Maybe you didn't reinstall the clutch rod.


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:16 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Clutch Rod?


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:41 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Please, mates, I'm waiting for your responses. Rick, .75, Laitch


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:25 am

RicK G

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The "clutch rod" referred to is the clutch push-rod, which goes down the centre of the main shaft of the gearbox to the centre of the diaphragm spring. It can be put in with the gearbox still on the engine but I think you may need to remove the swinging arm.
Emmanuel do you have a workshop manual?


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:56 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Oh, I see. It was in when I was installing the gearbox into the clutch side. Actually, I only removed the whole gearbox without taking it apart. So I just put it back with the clutch rod still on it. I'm sure of it


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 am

RicK G

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They can come out very easily when the gearbox is just sitting on the floor because they sit front down and it slides out.
If this is the case you don't need to remove the gearbox.

Parts 8 & 9 are external behind the swinging arm but you can get to them. Remove them and then remove 10, 11 & 12 you will need a needle nose pliers then you can see the end of the push-rod ( part 13) if it is there. You may find the cat playing with it or that it has rolled away and is hiding under the bench. I am not sure without having one to refer to right now but it will slide in from the back but the swinging arm may need to be removed.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:11 am

thecableguy

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Are we sure that a 7mm thick clutch disc will allow the clutch pack to open wide enough to disengage? As I recall my new one was only 5.5mm...

As I recall reading about, the problem with the VW clutch disc was that the material was too thick and needed to be turned down to fit.

Just a thought.

Jim


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'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:03 am

Point-Seven-five

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I am with the Cableguy on the thickness.  It is possible that it isn't a problem, as there seems to be more than enough travel at the clutch lever where it pushes the clutch rod. 

First thing I would do is pull the swingarm and confirm that the clutch rod is indeed present and able to move freely.  One problem is that it may have gotten bent where it protrudes at the front end of the transmission. 

Did you align the clutch pack before installing the transmission?  I suppose you did since you were able to attach the transmission. 

Carefully reassemble and adjust the clutch actuating linkage and try it again.   Then test the clutch action. 

If it still won't disengage, you will need to have the friction material cut down to 5.5mm.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:17 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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I aligned it. The clutch rod is in place.
In the event the thickness is the issue, what do we do? Remember it's the only option on the market here. Isn't there a way to adjust things for it to work normally?

By the way, no one is commenting on the starting issue


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

31Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:35 am

thecableguy

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@emmanuelfiadjoe wrote:By the way, no one is commenting on the starting issue

If the clutch won't disengage you won't be able to start it.



Perhaps the shop that lined it can turn it down by 1.5mm(.75mm on each side) on a lathe like one would turn down a brake rotor?  Not sure if that's possible...

Jim


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'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:56 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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You mean even though I am able to shift to neutral, the bike will still not start, and that's deu to the clutch?


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

33Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:10 pm

thecableguy

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Sorry, yes in neutral it should start.  You won't be able to change into gear though.  My brain wasn't working there...
Embarassed


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'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:17 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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So what's with the starting issue?


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:34 pm

thecableguy

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Not sure. Could be the starter sprag. I listened to the audio. It sounds like it's pausing? Were you holding the start button the whole time?  Battery fully charged? Is the engine actually turning?

Some things to look at:
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/kstartersprag.htm
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/starter-cleaning/starter-cleaning.shtml

If its the sprag that's making that noise and the engine isn't actually turning over, here's another resource. Read the whole thing before you decide on a course of action.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,5933.0.html


Jim


__________________________________________________
'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

36Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:41 pm

thecableguy

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Here's what my "starting to go bad" sprag sounded like.  Its a sound that'll send shivers up a brick-owners spine.

I did the engine-cleaner-in-the-oil trick and it eventually cleared up.

https://youtu.be/cAHL-ESGuuo

Jim


__________________________________________________
'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

37Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:52 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Yet to read those links.
But I removed and installed the starter when I was installing the gearbox.
Also the exhaust openings are cold, no signs of heat at all during starting (I already said the exhaust pipes and muffler have been removed). Not much wind is felt when I place my hand over the exhaust openings, even though the wind from the openings feel slightly warm.
Also, my hand stayed on the starter button during the period of the audio recording


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

38Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:54 pm

Laitch

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Please explain how you aligned the clutch components as you were tightening the clutch housing cover, emmanuel.


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:04 pm

thecableguy

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Give 'em a read. Esp that first one. It's long and technical but it explains the system well.  

So you are holding your hand by the exhaust port while cranking? And you don't feel puffs of air?  I haven't tried that on my K but I have on smaller engines and you should feel a pretty good puff of air from the exhaust stroke if it's actually turning the engine.


__________________________________________________
'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

40Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:27 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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About once a year my starter does not engage, sprag clutch. However more frequent oil changes definitely help. I don't worry now as it seems to free itself. So far it has happened three times. If it has never happened you before Emmanuel then I figure more frequent oil changes. Even better is that 88 [Will] has used the drill the hole in the engine casing from outside trick and made it work. If you do get a problem this is a very simple solution well within your skills. I am not sure the exact thread but it will be found. The only dismantling you will do for that is to remove the sump plate and you need sealant rather than a gasket.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Mystic Red 58,645 now 69,000 miles
    

41Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:06 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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I don't have the BMW centering too. I tightened the clutch cover just enough to hold the clutch in place but still make it movable with little force applied. I then gave very gentle taps at various positions of the clutch till the inside circumference was equidistant from the inside circumference of the housing cover. With my eyes positioned horizontal with the centre of the clutch plate.


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

42Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:18 pm

Laitch

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I agree with .75 and thecableguy.

The clutch disc is approximately 25% greater than it should be, according to the figure you provided. If that is combined with a worn diaphragm spring, the result could be both clutch engagement and return difficulties. If the clutch assembly is out of alignment also, that could put strain on the driveline and create a laboring starter, which is what I think I'm hearing. It helps if your battery's output is 12 volts or greater when starting; otherwise, the bike's starter relay could be damaged.

I don't think this friction disc will work. The correct parts will need to be ordered or a disc of the correct thickness will need to be fabricated.  For installation of the clutch pack, I use an alignment also although I understand that there are experienced mechanics who assert that the tool isn't needed by them. I use one to increase my chances of only needing to do the transmission installation once, when I'm doing it. 

Did you use guide pins for installing and removing the transmission, emmanuel? Did you have trouble keeping it on the level when extracting and replacing it? It's awkward for most people, even with a helper. Guide pins help to keep it level and prevent misalignment from damaging the clutch push rod.

Rick asked if you have a manual. If you don't, there are some online.

The trouble with having an old BMW sometimes is getting the parts that are needed. You don't need be in Accra to have that problem though.

I hope your bike's problems can be resolved with the means available locally because I understand the difficulties of shipping to your location.


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

43Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:44 pm

emmanuelfiadjoe

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It's 9:40pm now. Tomorrow, I will remove the clutch plate and have the friction material size sand papered to have a total thickness of 5.5mm (material + plate). I used a guide pin when installing the gearbox.
Do remember I said I removed the starter and put it back while installing the gearbox.
Thanks all. I will give. Feedback tomorrow


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

44Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:42 pm

mike d


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@Laitch wrote: If the clutch assembly is out of alignment also, that could put strain on the driveline and create a laboring starter, Guide pins help to keep it level and prevent misalignment from damaging the clutch push rod.
Hi,

Once the clutch assembly has been fitted and the gearbox installed, then on first application of the clutch lever any fine alignment of the friction plate will take place. No further 'strain' will be placed on the drive line.

Mike

    

45Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:24 pm

Holister

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@emmanuelfiadjoe wrote:

  1. The clutch is working now I think as I'm unable to turn the wheel when the bike is in gear. HOWEVER, the clutch lever is unable to disengage the clutch no matter the adjustment, including the adjustment procedure from the BMW Manual.
    ALSO, I turned the bolt used to adjust the free play "A" at the clutch lever and at a point, the bolt came off, but I reinstalled the bolt. Since then, when I pull the clutch lever, it doesn't return automatically (I mean the lever). So now, the clutch lever is unable to disengage the clutch.


If the adjuster at the handlebar came all the way out then you probably have one of the following situations.

  • you have the wrong clutch cable installed.
  • The clutch is not adjusted correctly.
  • The bottom end of the clutch cable is not located in the clutch operating arm (#1).
  • The clutch adjustment at the push rod (#6) is wound all the way out.
  • There is no clutch push rod installed.
  • There may be a missing part to the clutch push rod assembly such as the the pilot bearing bush (#14).
  • Possibly, your clutch diaphragm may be installed back to front (I'm not too sure how that would impact).


The fact that you say your "clutch lever doesn't return automatically" tells me that something is not adjusted correctly between the rubber boot and the handle bar as I think the coil spring (#10) would return the clutch operating lever regardless of of a missing push rod. I would be investigating these external options before removing the GB again.

Just my thoughts.
Cheers


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

46Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:05 pm

Crazy Frog

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@Holister wrote:The fact that you say your "clutch lever doesn't return automatically" tells me that something is not adjusted correctly between the rubber boot and the handle bar as I think the coil spring (#10) would return the clutch operating lever regardless of of a missing push rod. I would be investigating these external options before removing the GB again.

Just my thoughts.
Cheers
Or..... The clutch leaver bearing are seized and the lever is not moving freely.
Years ago (40+), I was living in Ivory Coast near the Ghana border(Aboisso). I saw a lot of people having parts delivered from Abidjan to Ghana. This could be an option for you.


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

47Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:43 pm

Point-Seven-five

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First of all, a question for the brain trust:  Is it possible to pull the clutch release push rod while the transmission is installed? 

I think it is possible, but can't say for sure as my experience with the K100 is a bit limited.

As to Emmanuel's problem, I suspect that the clutch push rod is bent at the tip and as a result is not going into the pilot bushing in the end of the engine output shaft.

First, this prevents the clutch push rod from being able to disengage the clutch.  Second, because it is not fully inserted it will protrude at the rubber boot and force Emmanuel to back out the adjusting screw that bears on the push rod.  Also, because it is hard against the end of the engine output shaft it will be impossible to pull the handlebar lever to disengage the clutch.

If it is possible to pull the push rod out, that is the first thing to do so as to be able to inspect the tip for alignment.  Isn't bending that tip during transmission installation something that is warned against in all the repair manuals?


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

48Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:27 pm

RicK G

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@Point-Seven-five wrote:First of all, a question for the brain trust:  Is it possible to pull the clutch release push rod while the transmission is installed? 

I think it is possible, but can't say for sure as my experience with the K100 is a bit limited.

As to Emmanuel's problem, I suspect that the clutch push rod is bent at the tip and as a result is not going into the pilot bushing in the end of the engine output shaft.

First, this prevents the clutch push rod from being able to disengage the clutch.  Second, because it is not fully inserted it will protrude at the rubber boot and force Emmanuel to back out the adjusting screw that bears on the push rod.  Also, because it is hard against the end of the engine output shaft it will be impossible to pull the handlebar lever to disengage the clutch.

If it is possible to pull the push rod out, that is the first thing to do so as to be able to inspect the tip for alignment.  Isn't bending that tip during transmission installation something that is warned against in all the repair manuals?
That is the most likely explanation so far.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

49Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:28 am

emmanuelfiadjoe

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Please, are you suggesting that the thickness might not be the issue, and that the clutch rod might be bent? If so, do I forget about thinning down the friction material,and check the straightness of the rod? If it's bent, what do I do? 
The bolt that came off is the one at the rubber boot, not the one at the handle bar.


__________________________________________________
Model: K 100 RS 83 (0502,0503,0513)
Series: K589 (k100, RS, RT, LT)
Production Month/Year: 07/1984
Region: Europe
VIN: 0018945
    

50Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch Problems? on Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:41 am

RicK G

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I firmly believe that you will probably need to remove the gearbox if either is wrong.
Firstly try to remove the clutch pushrod out the back of the gearbox. If it will come out then the pushrod probably is usable but check it for straight with a straight edge ruler.
If it wont come then you will have to remove the gearbox to replace or straighten it. I would attempt to straighten it because if it is bent it is unusable and you have nothing to lose.
If it does come out then the thickness of the plate is probably the cause. The plate being 1.5mm thicker would possibly make the centre of the diaphragm spring higher by anything up to 6mm maybe higher so causing the pushrod to make the throw-out bearing sit further back and then the clutch actuating arm would probably not meet the bearing correctly causing it to jam in after the first time you pull the clutch in.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

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