BMW K bikes (Bricks)

You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]


1Back to top Go down    Batteries.. again. on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:14 pm

JaseYPK

avatar
Silver member
Silver member
Hello all,

Been a while. The bikes been off the road over winter for repairs, and I've had little time to do as much, or anything that I wanted to do to it.

Anyway, apologies as I know the battery debate has been covered to death, but not in recent years - I'm hoping theres new news!

I'm looking for a battery I can either stick inside  a seat cowl (cafe racer style) or mount elsewhere as I want to free up the original battery mount location.

I've got a Varta 25Ah 220CCA brick at the moment that works "most" of the time.

What would be a Li-ion or LFP equivalent to either this battery, or a suitable one to start the K100 happily?


I don't know what the minimum CCA required is, nor the minimum Ah recommended for a K100...

Cheers


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS - The Project!
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:33 pm

Holister

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Yes, we've had lots of very recent discussion on batteries and all this has been discussed before. You just need to use the search box located on the Portal tab or the Forum tab and enter the search term [battery] or multiple terms like [battery lithium]. If you want the latest posts about this topic adding a search operator such as [date:2016] will give you all the threads started in 2016 as well as 2016 posts for threads posted earlier. In case you find that difficult here's a link...
www.k100-forum.com+date:2016&*" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.k100-forum.com+date:2016&*" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com.au/search?q=battery&sitesearch=www.k100-forum.com&gws_rd=cr&ei=Z7jEWOnINoP28AWkubKACg#q=battery+lithium+site:www.k100-forum.com+date:2016&*

BMW originally specified a 25Ah battery for the K100. A few here like myself use a Motobatt AGM battery which is 30Ah (Motobatt don't make a smaller one that fits). Others however use batteries around 20Ah. These seem to work as ok. The only problem with lower Ah is there is not much in reserve if you run into problems.
As for CCA, I don't think there are any clear specs. My Motobatt MBTX30U is rated at 360CCA but I think you would get away with a minimum of about 240CCA. Keep in mind that the lower the specs the less reliable it will be in the long term.

As for lithium. The latest tech is LiFePo. Many here will agree that you are wasting your money on a litium battery for a K100. Aesthetically, I've seen plenty of good looking K-cafés with the battery mounted normally and they look good. There is no appreciable gain by having a lighter battery.

Cheers



Last edited by Holister on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:16 am; edited 2 times in total


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:21 am

charlie99

avatar
VIP
VIP
just a reminder of the typical lithium battery's

as they approach discharged you get almost no indication that they are going to do that ...they just refuse to recover for another attempt at a start

at least on an old lead acid , you can hear see that the voltage is getting lower before they throw in the towel ...and they do recover fairly quickly ..well not fully but significantly enough to get a push start, and on your way again ?
by the way they don't like hot environments at all ..


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:45 am

Chocolate

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Holister wrote:
Many here will agree that you are wasting your money on a litium battery for a K100. …

Hello!

But for a caferacer it could make sense, a caferacer isn't a bike to (only to the next cafe place to showing up :-) to ride long distance.

But if you like, why not have a look in the air industry.
Super B 7800 Aircraft Battery

Cheers


__________________________________________________
Only a few activities make me experience my senses in a way motorcycle riding does, it is like swimming in the nude in a river.
K75 BA/1992 ABS, K75 BA/1991 noABS, Ducati, Mobylette M1/1973
Pictures: Me my bike and I
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:04 am

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
My K100RS 16v with ABS is happily starting with a 14 Ah Yuasa gel battery (YTX14BS), It has about 180 CCA and needs no more. It is about a quarter of the size and weight of the 1960s technology battery that was fitted to the early Ks. BMW changed to smaller batteries with the birth of the K1100 as battery technology had moved on in the '90s.
As for Lithium, I have one in my Ducati 848 and it weighs in at 600 grams. It has no problem starting the big twin at any time. Lithium batteries have huge CCA, something like 400 for 10 seconds, but low Ah, this should not matter with the K as the alternator is big enough for any power that you need when the engine is running.
The Yuasa YTX14BS costs around €60 whereas the lithium was about €110.
There is no point in saving weight on a K as you will never feel that saving.
If you are one of those that think the original old lead acid battery is good enough then why not use old fashioned 20/50 mineral oil from the '70s, and crappy old 1970s tyres too.
Just remember that the only reason for the battery is to start the bike, after that it does nothing.

    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:45 am

Holister

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
BobT wrote:My K100RS 16v with ABS is happily starting with a 14 Ah Yuasa gel battery (YTX14BS), It has about 180 CCA and needs no more.
And it would because the YTX14BS uses a 20hr rating. Work that out on a 10hr rating which most other M/C starter batteries are based on and you have well over 20Ah. Yuasa rate that battery at 12Ah@20hrs and 200cca. Other manufacturers at 220cca. Let's not confuse the issue for the OP who is trying to work out which battery is best for his machine.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:51 am

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Holister wrote:
BobT wrote:My K100RS 16v with ABS is happily starting with a 14 Ah Yuasa gel battery (YTX14BS), It has about 180 CCA and needs no more.
And it would because the YTX14BS uses a 20hr rating. Work that out on a 10hr rating which most other M/C starter batteries are based on and you have well over 20Ah. Yuasa rate that battery at 200cca. Other manufacturers at 220cca. Let's not confuse the issue for the OP who is trying to work out which battery is best for his machine.
I see what you are saying so the YTX14 BS will be ideal for the OP then. The Ah rating means very little on a starter battery and 200+CCA will be fine for his machine.
It would probably also fit inside his seat cowl.

    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:23 am

JaseYPK

avatar
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks for the input guys, very helpful and much appreciated. I may now end up looking at non-L-ion batteries to save cost, gel ones seem appealing due to versatility with mounting them on their sides.

However I've noticed some batteries (odessey for example) state the CCA rating and a PHCA rating. I'm aware of the difference being one is for freezing temps, the other is for 30'c temps.

However I'm still at a loss when trying to work out which rating is more relevant to me if I'm riding my bike when the outside temp is typically going to be between 2'c and 30'c - UK temperature.


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS - The Project!
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:52 am

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
If you are riding you bike then the battery is doing nothing. It only does anything when you are starting. I have used Hawker Odyssey PC680 on my Ks before. They are fantastic batteries and I have one on my microlight (4 cylinder, 4 stoke, 1400cc, 100hp). They are the same physical size as the K1100 battery which is half the physical size of the old 28/30Ah original K100 battery.
Not cheap though.

    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:56 am

Holister

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
JaseYPK wrote:.....
However I'm still at a loss when trying to work out which rating is more relevant to me if I'm riding my bike when the outside temp is typically going to be between 2'c and 30'c - UK temperature.
It won't matter. CCA is measured at -18ºc.
I don't see 2-30ºc as extreme temps. Quite mild really. If you're worried, go for something with higher CCA but as BobT said above, the battery is only used for starting. After that it pretty much does nothing.
Make sure you check out the AGM batteries to.
Possibly some of the Poms from the North of UK will chime in with what they use.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:15 am

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
As Holister says look at AGM. The Hawker is AGM and I also believe that the Yuasa YTX are AGM. 
No need for a breather pipe with AGM and you can use them on their side if you want.

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:50 am

Chocolate

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
The best battery you can buy for money is the AGM KungLong.
Most of the K rider in Germany use them, I also!

30£ And is much smaller than normal acid batteries


Kung Long WP18-12 12V 18Ah UPS Battery - This is an AJC Brand® Replacement



Cheers


__________________________________________________
Only a few activities make me experience my senses in a way motorcycle riding does, it is like swimming in the nude in a river.
K75 BA/1992 ABS, K75 BA/1991 noABS, Ducati, Mobylette M1/1973
Pictures: Me my bike and I
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:19 pm

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Looking at those skinny battery terminals and the fact that it is described as a UPS battery and gives no indication of CCA, I wonder how that compares with a Yuasa? UPS systems have very different requirements to starter batteries. 
You might save the price of a tank of fuel, but is it worth it?

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:30 pm

Chocolate

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Bob you properly don't know the kungLong Battery, we do!
If you want other terminals, get the KungLong WP 22 ah, perfect terminals.
It's known as good for the K with or without ABS
http://www.klb.com.tw/dbf/WP18-12.pdf.
We use it here for many years and we are happy.

Very good price and last a long time, starts good in winter.
But sure there are more then 100 others batteries out there, Yuasa or what ever.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
Only a few activities make me experience my senses in a way motorcycle riding does, it is like swimming in the nude in a river.
K75 BA/1992 ABS, K75 BA/1991 noABS, Ducati, Mobylette M1/1973
Pictures: Me my bike and I
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:25 pm

wilcom

avatar
active member
active member
Chocolate wrote:

Very good price and last a long time, starts good in winter.
But sure there are more then 100 others batteries out there, Yuasa or what ever.

Cheers
If you can get along with 18 ampere hour the Gruber folks make an excellent battery that the R65 folks have used for some time with NO issues. A tick over $40 delivered to your door Stateside. Mine would set all winter with snow outside and fire up with no battery tender.

http://www.gruberpower.com/12-volt-18-amp-hour-ah-battery

There next size up is a 26 ampere hour but the price goes up to $75 which is out of my "cheap charlie" range LOL

http://www.gruberpower.com/12-volt-26-amp-hour-ah-battery-elite


__________________________________________________
Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA
1989 K100RS SE


past
1979 BMW R65
1980 BMW R65
1982 BMW R80RT (Gas hog)
1974 BMW R90/6
1972 BMW R75
1964 BMW R50 Earles forks( as reliable as a hammer)
2009 Buel XB12R (the FI sucked)
1999 Buell  (Yeah! a carburetor)
2005 Suzuki Bandit 1200
1991 Kaw ZX-11 OMG
1966 Norton 750 (had to have a chase car for anything over 5 miles)
1961 Norton 650' (see above)
1964 Honda 305 Superhawk
and a dozen or so I have forgotten about..........
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:33 pm

BobT

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Not a lot of use to the OP as he in in the UK. Postage from the US would probably be 3 times the price of the battery and then the UK customs would probably want duty too.

    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:26 pm

Snod Blatter

avatar
Platinum member
Platinum member
Sorry for the silly question, but while we're on the subject - how do you get a smaller battery to fit and stay secure? Is it easy? Do you have to pack it out?

My TRX uses a YTX12-BS (10.5Ah) which throws it round a treat, I can't imagine our Ks could possibly need more. In fact I even have a gel (yes, real actual gel) Dynavolt YB9-B (9.5Ah) in the CBX250 that seems to be a bit of a monster, I'd suggest one of those would work a treat too. Can we fit anything we like?


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:48 pm

blaKey

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
"Looking at those skinny battery terminals and the fact that it is described as a UPS battery and gives no indication of CCA, I wonder how that compares with a Yuasa? UPS systems have very different requirements to starter batteries. 
You might save the price of a tank of fuel, but is it worth it?"


Well, mine lasted 6 years and cost me AU80 dollars, so I'm more than happy. I only replaced it recently as I thought it had failed, but the fault was traced to a dicky starter relay.


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

Remember Rule No. 6
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:01 pm

indian036

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Snod Blatter wrote:Can we fit anything we like?
Simple answer is yes as long as it has enough CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) to reliably start the bike, and enough Ah (Amp hours) to give you a bit of a reserve if it doesn't start instantly. How much that is depends on your desire for a physically small battery versus the security of more starting attempts if things aren't going well.

That and avoiding stupidity such as mounting a traditional lead acid battery any other way than upright, and/or not making sure the battery of whatever type is securely mounted so it doesn't bounce around.

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT Red.  VIN 0028991K100RT    ENG 104EA248523386
1985 K100RT Blue. VIN 0029036K100RT    ENG 104EA25852071
1990 K100LT Black. VIN WB105060310190452
1984 K100RT White. VIN. 0023022K100RT  ENG 104EA32848523
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:12 am

JaseYPK

avatar
Silver member
Silver member
Some very helpful advice here, so thanks to all that have contributed! 


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS - The Project!
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Batteries.. again. on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:14 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Chocolate wrote:
Holister wrote:
Many here will agree that you are wasting your money on a litium battery for a K100. …

Hello!

But for a caferacer it could make sense, a caferacer isn't a bike to (only to the next cafe place to showing up :-) to ride long distance.

But if you like, why not have a look in the air industry.
Super B 7800 Aircraft Battery

Cheers
Have you seen the price??  £399!
I can get these for a K1100 for £70.



These work well, I've had one for years.

    

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum