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1Back to top Go down    waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 4:45

gsxrjeff

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they are using the stuff in jap bikes why not bmw's?

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 5:04

charlie99

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they are using it in far more things ...has good science ..


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 5:06

BobT

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Because it does not cool as well as water does and you cannot top it up with water should you need to top up.
Can you tell us which Jap bikes are using it because as far as I know no car manufacturers use it.

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 5:25

gsxrjeff

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BobT wrote:Because it does not cool as well as water does and you cannot top it up with water should you need to top up.
Can you tell us which Jap bikes are using it because as far as I know no car manufacturers use it.
sorry meant to say local motorcycle garage use it when they do a coolant change on all of their bikes mainly jap bikes,they love it.
they said to me that because of the anti boiling higher temps nobody tops it up [recommended not too ,as it dosn't mix well with water]

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 6:49

BobT

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Rotax 912s engine is used in microlights and light aircraft. It is about 1400cc and produces 100hp. It is designed to run at max revs all day long.
Some were filled with Evans waterless coolant as standard others were not. Many of the Evans ones had nothing but problems with overheating and expensive servicing because of the cost. Overheating is not good in an aircraft.
I am lucky because my 912s has normal coolant and runs near the limit but does not overheat.

    

6Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 9:59

RicK G

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I have yet to find a coolant that is as effective as water, however the down side to straight water is that is that it can contain lots of dissolved oxygen and other impurities that cause corrosion.
Once you mix it with a substance like glycol the heat absorption and heat transfer properties are reduced but even with those reduced properties it is still so far in front of anything else there isn't even a comparison.
Water will hold more heat for a given volume than any other material. It's heat transfer properties are not as good as some other liquids due to a high surface tension but because of its heat absorption qualities it is far superior. Once a wetting agent is included it becomes a very good coolant.
Many, over the years, have tried to make products that emulate water's properties but few have come even close and yet they continue on with the search for a holy grail that is right under their noses and is used every day.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 18:27

nods

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I've been using Evans waterless coolant in my Tiger 1050 for a couple of years now.

As Rick said, it can't remove heat as effectively as water - I over heated in the M5 tunnel in Sydney on a hot day - had to pull over in an emergency break down bay and wait for it to cool down before continuing on. When I say over heated, I mean the temp gauge went to max then the engine warning light came on, so that was as far as I was prepared to keep the engine running at that point. The Evans stuff never boiled though, and you never need to top it up. It just stays at the same level all the time. It doesn't like ANY water in the system - you have to use the Evans prep fluid to absorb and remove all water in the system before adding the waterless coolant. Evans say even a small amount of water will reduce the cooling ability of the product.

I like the product - it is supposed to be for the life of the engine once added. I've ridden in 47C degree days and the temp gauge doesn't go above the normal 6 bars. It's just the long tunnel with the hot air, stop/start traffic, and the lack of air flow (the air in the tunnel is moving with the traffic) where I've had a problem.

Apparently Jay Leno is an advocate of the stuff for his collection of old cars.

I'll probably put it in my K100 at some point down the track (I have a bottle of BMW coolant to use first) when it's time to get her on the road.


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 18:44

Born Again Eccentric

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nods wrote:
As Rick said, it can't remove heat as effectively as water - I over heated in the M5 tunnel in Sydney on a hot day - had to pull over in an emergency break down bay and wait for it to cool down before continuing on. When I say over heated, I mean the temp gauge went to max then the engine warning light came on, so that was as far as I was prepared to keep the engine running at that point...... It's just the long tunnel with the hot air, stop/start traffic, and the lack of air flow (the air in the tunnel is moving with the traffic) where I've had a problem.
I've never tried the stuff - but to be fair, even the usual water based coolant struggles under those conditions if there isn't sufficient air flow across the radiator (by fan or motion) - I hit those high temps warnings in those same tunnels in "rush" hour traffic on Rosskko's neekid K100 a year or so back (fan wasn't kicking in).

I'm certainly not adverse to using something new - but do default to the "if it ain't broke" school of thought. Water tends to be rather plentiful and probably a lot cheaper and, if it is a more efficient coolant, why not keep on using it? I've had loss of coolant incident on the road before (in my first car - turned out to be a poorly repaired radiator stub pipe) and managed to get home by topping up the coolant system from road side streams and ponds! You couldn't do that with the water-less stuff!


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Paul

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurancewrite-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red) (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike). June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 19:33

BobT

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nods wrote:The Evans stuff never boiled though, and you never need to top it up. It just stays at the same level all the time.

Same as any coolant till you get a leak. If you do get a leak with conventional coolant you can top it up with water, which is available all over the world wherever there are people, and it is free. If you get a leak with Evans however....... What a Face

    

10Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 21:26

Laitch

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nods wrote: you have to use the Evans prep fluid to absorb and remove all water in the system before adding the waterless coolant. Evans say even a small amount of water will reduce the cooling ability of the product.

Apparently Jay Leno is an advocate of the stuff for his collection of old cars.
Evans recommends using its costly proprietary coolant system cleaner by means of a high volume/low pressure flush before using its costly waterless coolant. After installation of the coolant, the water content must be <3% as tested by a refractometer or waterless coolant test strips. If it doesn't measure correctly the installation procedure must be repeated. I'd rather use the time to make a pizza or pooris, dough and all.


The use of it in classic, costly vehicles that aren't run much seems appropriate.

To me, Evans waterless coolant looks like a solution ( Laughing ) looking for a problem many riders don't have. It also seems to bring its own set of challenges, in case the rider didn't have enough previously.

I can see its attraction for use in a new bike because once it is installed it doesn't need renewal, just inspection. It's just not attractive to me for use in my old K.


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1995 K75T 60,000 miles
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Sun 26 Mar 2017 - 23:58

Point-Seven-five

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Somebody, please tell me why I want to put an expensive coolant that isn't as efficient as an ethylene glycol/water mix in my bike.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Mon 27 Mar 2017 - 0:29

wilcom

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Somebody, please tell me why I want to put an expensive coolant that isn't as efficient as an ethylene glycol/water mix in my bike.

I read for 2 hours and watched Leno's vid and the only great thing I see is the lack of "pressure". Corrosion is a plus too if your vehicle has those tendencies

No constant pressure " looking " for a way out. If you get a pin hole in a hose, pressure doesn't drop your load in the next 1/2 mile.

The disadvantages are many. If you are a long haul trucker the game changes over the long run, but for us, not so much.


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Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA
1989 K100RS SE


past
1979 BMW R65
1980 BMW R65
1982 BMW R80RT (Gas hog)
1974 BMW R90/6
1972 BMW R75
1964 BMW R50 Earles forks( as reliable as a hammer)
2009 Buel XB12R (the FI sucked)
1999 Buell (Yeah! a carburetor)
2005 Suzuki Bandit 1200
1991 Kaw ZX-11 OMG
1966 Norton 750 (had to have a chase car for anything over 5 miles)
1961 Norton 650' (see above)
1964 Honda 305 Superhawk
and a dozen or so I have forgotten about..........
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Mon 27 Mar 2017 - 0:38

RicK G

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So this stuff doesn't expand when it gets hot?
There would have to be a hell of a lot of evidence of this stuff before I'll convert.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Mon 27 Mar 2017 - 13:31

nods

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RicK G wrote:So this stuff doesn't expand when it gets hot?
There would have to be a hell of a lot of evidence of this stuff before I'll convert.
That rings a bell from my reading a couple of years ago Rick - that was one of the draw cards - having no pressure in the system. I think I remember running the engine up to normal operating temp (in the garage) without the radiator cap on. There's a bit of propaganda on the Evan's website about the fluid not forming miniature gas bubbles at the surface of the cooling passage material due to "boiling" (a property of water) and hence being better in that regard. It all got too technical for me and I just liked the anti-corrosion, the "no pressure", and the "use for life of the engine" properties.

And I'm pretty sure the stuff doesn't explode if you were to add water to it - if you get a leak just keep topping it up with water to get home like any other coolant Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: waterless coolant on Mon 27 Mar 2017 - 14:52

RicK G

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The pressure build up is from the coolant expanding just as most liquids expand when heated. Not as they claim because of steam. Glycol is added to water so as to raise the boiling point and lower the freezing point and it also makes the water transfer the heat away from the "hot spots" without boiling.
As was said previously I see no reason to change so as to avoid problems that I don't have.
One very irresponsible thing I see them saying is that it is for life and that will make people believe that there is no need to check and that will lead to engine failure if there is a leak due to hose deterioration or gasket failure.
If I was having cooling issues then firstly fix whatever is causing the problem and if it still persists then the cooling system is not up to the job and the times that this occurs is usually when an inadequate system is installed in the first place as in an engine swap and a different coolant is not going to fix that. From what I can see the main thing it does is get money from your wallet with no real advantage to the run of the mill car/bike. Maybe there would be some advantage to using it in a very challenging environment but even there I would have my doubts.
I can see the perceived advantage in the lifetime bit but I have never had any vehicle that has not needed some sort of work that required the draining of the coolant and I wont reuse any coolant after it has been dropped.
It is a bit parallel to not having a dipstick on a modern transmission that is "sealed for life" and usually that life is reduced due to a very small leak that is nor noticed and would be picked up if there was a way to check it on a regular basis and add a small amount to extend the time available to fix the leak.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

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