BMW K bikes (Bricks)


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1Back to top Go down    CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 11:25 am

Crazy Frog

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Last year, at the end of the season, I started to experience problems with the K100.
The first problem was during a ride: The bike was running fine, but the idle started to jump from 1,000 to 2,000 RPM on it's own.
Later, it was difficult to start the bike, and during a ride twice the bike lost engine power (The engine never stop, but when opening the throttle it was like if no gas was reaching the injectors)

After 4 months under a tarp and a foot of snow, I installed a fully charged battery and even without installing the gas tank, I pushed the starter button and the engine purred for a couple of seconds.

After re-installing the tank, I was back to the same problem. The engine is flooding.
However, if I push the starter button for 30 seconds or a minute the bike will eventually start.
It's running a bit rough (hesitating) when going from 1,500 and 2,500 RPM: As the alternator starts charging at 1,500RPM, I disconnected it to be sure that it would not produce a "power surge" or something like this.
After 2 weeks, I still not have found the problem and will have to dig into my charts.

As I have a good collection of spare parts I methodically started to swap them.
I installed:
A brand new water temp sensor
4 brand new injectors
4 new plugs.
Brand new fuel filter.
Brand new engine vent hose (The S one cracking over the years)
Battery power is good. In fact I have 2 differents batteries
Swapped the MAF, ignition coils (found a crack at the bottom of one), Ignition and FI computer, Hall sensors, spark plug wires.
A test of the fuel pressure shows 36-37PSI. An hour later, the residual pressure is still about 20PSI in the line.
I tried a spare tank with a different fuel pump.
Cylinder compression test doesn't reveal any problems.
Valves clearance is within specs at the exception of one intake valve being at .24 when the max is .20 (This should not be a major problem and will be fixed later)
As I swapped parts, I cleaned the associated connections with Deoxit.
The main ground to the gear box has been cleaned. (I have not yet cleaned the ground under the tank yet but it looks perfect).
When the bike is running I went with a propane torch (not lighted) around the throttle body and and got absolutely no change in the RPM. This tells me that I don't have any air leaks
What could be my problem? HELP!


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 11:58 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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When I had my K at my friends and we did the rear seal he went to fire it up and it did what yours did. He spent a few minutes pulled the throttle position sensor electrical plug off and it was greenish inside, cleaned it off and then balanced the throttle bodies. Quite amazing difference, it ran ok after that, not perfect but a further clean up of all the coil/plug/ignition connections at the weekend has most certainly improved things. You seem to have all these things done.

But your describing something like I have been seeing on an intermittent power interruption on the issue of a bad plug/FICU connection. It can cause injectors to stay open too long or not open, it can also interfere with the supply to the coils. There were a few threads about breaks in some of these wires too causing minute or intermittent power interruptions. Wrong temp signal through a faulty wire will cause rich running. My suspicion is a signal issue somewhere due to connection rather than faulty component.

Does the ground under the tank include the ground for the ICU?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 58,645 now 60,500miles
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 12:03 pm

Crazy Frog

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Thanks Olaf.

I agree 100% with you about the plug of the fuel injection computer. This was my first suspicion.
I check it many many times. I just found a spare FI harness in my stock of spares and I am planning to replace it tomorrow.
FYI, the throttle position switch has been disconnected as soon as I started to experience the problems.


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 12:40 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I thought so on the TPS and expected my friend to say leave it disconnected but he insisted on cleaning it up and putting it back in. However collective forum wisdom says what it says too. He also fixed the vacuum pipe to the fuel pressure regulator, the pipe I had already fixed and said was fine but he found a defect.

I am wondering are there potentially 2 issues but they point to the same source. One being the injectors staying open too long because of a fault,or because of a corrupt signal from temp sensor or MAF and thanks to your forum we know where they all come together.

You will be ready for a Christmas pudding when you have that sorted. In case and before that gets smart comments, ideally they should mature for 6 months before consumption and no one says you can only have them at Christmas. Gluten free coming on line too, by special request.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 58,645 now 60,500miles
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 1:06 pm

Laitch

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Have you swapped ignition switches? Was its under tank connection part of the DeoxITization?


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 1:41 pm

Crazy Frog

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@Laitch wrote:Have you swapped ignition switches? Was its under tank connection part of the DeoxITization?
No I haven't swapped the ignition switch. The connector has been Deoxit(ed).


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 6:57 pm

Point-Seven-five

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There is no mention of the condition of your air filter.

I assume you have drained the tank and replaced with fresh fuel.

Have any critters taken up residence in either air box or exhaust system?

With everything you have done so far it seems the only thing left is a broken wire in the engine loom or insulation worn off and shorting to the frame.

What do the spark plugs look like?


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 7:23 pm

Laitch

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@Crazy Frog wrote:
@Laitch wrote:Have you swapped ignition switches? Was its under tank connection part of the DeoxITization?
No I haven't swapped the ignition switch. The connector has been Deoxit(ed).
Maybe you should try that with one you have that works. Smile


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Tue May 02, 2017 8:44 pm

RicK G

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When it increases in revs it often means that there is a lean out situation. The only thing that will cause that is a blockage or near blockage in the delivery. The next place is the delivery line for the fuel, if it is delaminating it will cause a blockage that as soon as the pressure is gone the blockage will also disappear. Have a feel of the lines to see if one ,mainly from tank to injector rail, to see if there is a soft spot or just change the lines. Fuel lines usually last upwards of 20 years but a 10 year life span is as much as can be realistically be expected.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Wed May 03, 2017 4:00 am

Crazy Frog

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+1 on this one.
I had found a bad fuel filter but it has been replaced with a new one. The tank has been cleaned and filled with new gas. ( I have not replaced the inside lines in the tank but got the same problem with a spare tank and fuel pump). However, the same supply line from the tank to the injectors has been used and this could be a problem.

I will replace the supply line from the tank to the injector rail and will report.
About the air filter, it has been swapped too but even when it's removed, the engine doesn't start.


__________________________________________________
1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Wed May 03, 2017 4:07 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Blockage at the Fuel Pressure Regulator?

I have seen the way the fuel lines break up and wondering could some bits be trapped in at the FPR?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 58,645 now 60,500miles
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 12:36 pm

Bumblebee

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Throttle position sensor or intake air leaks. Maybe both. These bikes are old now and the rubber parts are beginning to fail.

A few years back my K was running lumpy, trouble traced to air leaks.

- John

http://Bugsmashers.org/phpbb
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 1:13 pm

Point-Seven-five

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@Crazy Frog wrote:About the air filter, it has been swapped too but even when it's removed, the engine doesn't start.
Have you tried starting with ether?


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 4:02 pm

duck

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@Point-Seven-five wrote:
@Crazy Frog wrote:About the air filter, it has been swapped too but even when it's removed, the engine doesn't start.
Have you tried starting with ether?

a.k.a. Starting fluid. This is a good idea in order to determine if it is a fuel supply or an ignition issue.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 7:18 pm

Crazy Frog

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Guess what????

The bike is still not running right.
Yesterday, I decided to start the solo bike (Let's call the solo "the green" and the one with the sidecar "the blue").
I installed the battery on the green, plugged in the Fuel Injection computer, and at the first push of the starter button the bike was purring.
I then tried the FI and ICU computer from the blue and the green ran fine again.
I removed the following parts from the green and installed them on the blue:
- ICU
- FICU
- spark plugs AND spark plug wires
- Ignition switch
- Complete fuel tank with all the guts
- MAF
- Battery
After the swapping, the Blue is still not working. It's mostly flooding when it starts and if it runs, it's not smooth at all and will shuts off on idle if I don't have the choke on (The choke only raises the RPM and doesn't influence the ratio air/fuel).
I have the 3rd fuel regulator installed on it and the fuel pressure gauge shows consistently 36 to 40PSI. When removing the depression line coming from the TB, the pressure stabilize at 36 PSI. If I disconnect the depression line, the idle is increasing by 500rpm.
Fuel injectors are also brand new.
All connections have been cleaned and extra grounds had been installed too.
When the bike is running, if I spray propane around the throttle body, nothing is changing which I assume that I don't have any air leak. (The S hose crankcase breather is new).
The last thing that I have to do is to replace all the relays, but honestly I don't think it will make any difference.
Now, the only thing that I can see wrong is something in the wiring harness. I still have to test the 2 sets of Hall sensors on the green but again, I don't believe that's the problem.
ANYBODY HAS A WIRING HARNESS FOR SALE?

Any ideas are welcome. I AM LOST and want to have the sidecar on the road.

CF


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 7:33 pm

duck

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Are you looking to the engine wiring subharness to the fuel injectors? (61111459591)I have a known good one from a running bike.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Mon May 08, 2017 8:24 pm

Crazy Frog

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@duck wrote:Are you looking to the engine wiring subharness to the fuel injectors? (61111459591)I have a known good one from a running bike.
This would be a start duck. (PM sent) but I am was thinking of the whole harness.


__________________________________________________
1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Wed May 10, 2017 4:33 pm

Crazy Frog

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Still tracking what's wrong on the sidecar.
I removed a lot of parts from the solo K100 to test.
Today I decided to re-assemble the solo bike. It's bad to have 2 bikes not running.
Well I re-installed the computers, coils, Hall sensors and spark plug wires AND.... a set of new Bosch spark plugs purchased in January. F@#k (pardon my language) The bike would not start.

As the Bosch X5DC start to be difficult to find, I ordered them on Ebay (From the USA).
When they arrived, I was surprised to see Made in India written on the box.I just discovered today that after using them for a very short time, THEY DON'T WORK ANYMORE.
I found a set of old REAL Bosch put them on the bike and bingo! The solo bike is purring again with all the electronic of the sidecar.
I found a local dealer having only on set of NGK D7EA and asked him to reserve them for me. (Difficult to find them too). I will pick them up tomorrow.
For now, I am putting the solo bike back together and will work on the sidecar tomorrow.(It's in a friend's backyard).

Be careful when buying cheap knock from India. (I didn't know their origin).


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Wed May 10, 2017 8:59 pm

Dai

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CF - I'll send you a box of D7EAs if you want. A box of eight plugs is 14 - C$25.00 plus the shipping.

I've got a better idea: you pay the shipping and I'll pay for the plugs.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Thu May 11, 2017 9:23 am

Crazy Frog

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@Dai wrote:CF - I'll send you a box of D7EAs if you want. A box of eight plugs is 14 - C$25.00 plus the shipping.

I've got a better idea: you pay the shipping and I'll pay for the plugs.
Thanks Dai

I will pickup the 4 in stock this morning and will have the Honda dealer to order 2 spare sets. They are only $3 each but they normally don't keep them in stock.
I ordered the X5DC because this is what I always used but I will switch to NGK for now. The only problem is that they don't come with the bobbins on the tip.


__________________________________________________
1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: CF is frustrated. on Thu May 11, 2017 11:36 am

Point-Seven-five

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Contact NGK customer service. They are friendly people and sent me a dozen terminal nuts for my bikes. Now I just have to remember to change the nut when I change plugs.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

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