BMW K bikes (Bricks)

You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]


1Back to top Go down    550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 12:24 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Shortly after I had all this fun, it dropped onto 2 cylinders, 1 & 4 to be precise. 2 & 3 aren't well at all. I changed the coil. checked the leads, injectors swapped the coil and all the rest but to no avail. I think it's internal, could be the head gasket. It doesn't smoke or rattle, there's no oil in the water and vice versa. A guy riding with us used to be a mechanic for the Police and worked on K's for years, he suggested that the head gasket had blown between 2 & 3 as he'd seen it happen in the Cop bikes.
Whatever it is, the heads coming off for a look.


















So, on Sunday I missed my first session and was pretty peed off and then a pal turned up and lent me his TL1000R to save the day. I was very surprised how powerful and torquey it was-very nice.
What a good mate.



I quite fancy one but SHHH, don't tell the Wife!

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 12:49 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Before too much is done do a compression check.

If that's showing ok 2/3 are shared on one of the two Hall Effect Sensors and on the right hand coil. Any problem with the HES and the wiring from it up to and including 2/3 coil would also cause this and can cause an absence of sparks on both 2 and 3 which a swap of coils or leads won't cure. I won't disagree with the comment about the cop bikes as we didn't have K cop bikes here but my mate who is ex BMW only ever had to take a head off a K for accident damage. As we didn't have Kop bikes here he wouldn't have had that. However back in the day of the K there were a few very hard driven Ks locally that took what was thrown at them without issue.

You do seem to have checked all the possibilities but the standard HES wiring layout brings the HES wires around the radiator and I suspect a possible weak area.

Interested to see the outcome.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 12:57 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I'll try it when it's cold, that might see the HES work again but I did swap the coil and I lifted the HT leads off while it was running and you could hear a very healthy crack coming off every plug cap. I've got a set of spare HES so will also try them but there's an odd noise coming from the velocity stacks on 2 & 3 so my gut feeling is cylinder head off.

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 1:04 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Before too much is done do a compression check.

If that's showing ok 2/3 are shared on one of the two Hall Effect Sensors and on the right hand coil. Any problem with the HES and the wiring from it up to and including 2/3 coil would also cause this and can cause an absence of sparks on both 2 and 3 which a swap of coils or leads won't cure. I won't disagree with the comment about the cop bikes as we didn't have K cop bikes here but my mate who is ex BMW only ever had to take a head off a K for accident damage. As we didn't have Kop bikes here he wouldn't have had that. However back in the day of the K there were a few very hard driven Ks locally that took what was thrown at them without issue.

You do seem to have checked all the possibilities but the standard HES wiring layout brings the HES wires around the radiator and I suspect a possible weak area.

Interested to see the outcome.
I've also wondered if it picked up some debris. The air intake enters right across from 2 & 3.

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 1:27 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Another thought crossed my mind.

Are you using a total loss electrical system as in battery but no alternator? The rev counter as far as I know takes its signal from 2/3 could a current draw with lower battery affect coil 2/3?

However air intake and no debris protection.........and gut feeling.....


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 1:29 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Another thought crossed my mind.

Are you using a total loss electrical system as in battery but no alternator? The rev counter as far as I know takes its signal from 2/3 could a current draw with lower battery affect coil 2/3?

However air intake and no debris protection.........and gut feeling.....
Still got the alternator and stomach ache!  Very Happy

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 2:19 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Sounds like there is only the one cure.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 4:20 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Sounds like there is only the one cure.
Is this what you have in mind Olaf?

    

9Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 6:01 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Mike

I actually debated putting up a smart comment and then felt that in your circumstances it might offend given that you were looking at a head off job.

Anyway since I can now determine you do have a good sense of humour this is what I had been thinking of posting....


A bad feeling in your gut there is always Macdonalds


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 6:32 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
You're an awful man Olaf, so you are.  lol!

    

11Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 09, 2017 7:45 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Well, would you like a Christmas pudding this year when they come on stream? You won't need the Rennies for them.

Someone is collecting a batch in June and another batch is being delivered in September. Some also go in the mail! I have even been sent BMW parts in exchange for Christmas puddings. The making of the 2017 puddings will start in early June!

We also have a Christmas Brunch just after Christmas not much over an hour from the Dublin or Rosslare ferry port, Born Again Eccentric came over for the last one. You would be very welcome and far better than Macdonalds though you may well see a couple of those machines in mint condition parked outside.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Wed May 10, 2017 5:05 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Well, would you like a Christmas pudding this year when they come on stream? You won't need the Rennies for them.

Someone is collecting a batch in June and another batch is being delivered in September. Some also go in the mail! I have even been sent BMW parts in exchange for Christmas puddings. The making of the 2017 puddings will start in early June!

We also have a Christmas Brunch just after Christmas not much over an hour from the Dublin or Rosslare ferry port, Born Again Eccentric came over for the last one. You would be very welcome and far better than Macdonalds though you may well see a couple of those machines in mint condition parked outside.
Macdonalds? They always smell better than they taste-I never eat from there.
As for Christmas, I'd love to be there but we'll be in Spain. I'm riding my R1200R over later in the year and we'll be playing on that for a month or so.
On the subject of Christmas, I am partial to the pudding. Put my name on one and we'll sort it out when you're ready.











Who could resist roads like these?

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Wed May 10, 2017 12:24 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Took the head off and here's what I found.



The gasket has completely gone between 2 & 3.






It was going through between all the cylinder upon closer examination.


I've just ordered a genuine BMW gasket for this attempt. £ affraid£

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Wed May 10, 2017 8:30 pm

RicK G

avatar
VIP
VIP
I used to make my own gaskets from a sheet of 1mm copper. Now days you could get some done with a water jet or laser.
It was the only way I could keep the compression in. I also used copper O-rings on the nitro engines but they are the extreme end of engines.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Thu May 11, 2017 5:50 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Last time I had a head off a car was when I burnt a valve after towing a boat and getting bad petrol along the way.

Frustrated at the time but when it was back running the vast improvement after a full clean out and do everything along the way job made it all feel worth it.

Glad to see its not a more serious issue, back running soon I guess.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Thu May 11, 2017 5:32 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I had this 1100 motor "looked at" by a well respected BMW tuning specialist at the beginning of last year. I supplied a set of 1200RS cams and asked him to build me a fast K motor. I'm less than impressed by what I found when I delved into the head today. The motor has covered 42K miles and there is no way that these valves have been out of the head and lapped in.
I've had to scrape a thick layer of carbon that definitely hasn't formed in the 10ish hours I've run the bike. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad















Now, call me old fashioned but I think I've had my leg lifted here!


I started matching the ports up today so hopefully there will be some small improvement when I'm done.



I didn't go mad with the exhaust ports, just a good clean matching up with the gaskets. They seem pretty good as they leave the valve seats.


The inlet stubs were way off with the ports so had to smooth them back to the same level as the alloy.




    

17Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Thu May 11, 2017 9:22 pm

Dai

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Get your money back Mike? I feckin' hate people that do that - I've seen too many bikes over the years that have been to a 'specialist' and then brought to me to be fixed properly. Otherwise, a few pictures in the right place i.e. his forum (if he has one)?


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:29 am

charlie99

avatar
VIP
VIP
sad to see mike

I read of your headgasket issues in another place
what a bugga

yes I agree the pitting of the valves hasn't happened in the last 10 hours or so

can I suggest to take an accurate measurement of the current valve length .(valve stem height when installed )..before you do anything
I would think the only way to correct the issue is to get a "good " specialized head shop to cut the seats and back to fresh metal and grind the valves about 10 thou to get the pitting "cut out " entirely

if he was building a" go fast engine " , I think I would expect at least the valves to be cut for a few  more angles ..yes ?  cant see any change from original here

the reason, if not obvious, is for the measurement is to .."top the valves length " so you can get back to "standard " shims ..as I believe they are under bucket types and likely to be a real issue getting available shim sizes .consistent across the whole yardstick

good luck mate


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:32 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@Dai wrote:Get your money back Mike? I feckin' hate people that do that - I've seen too many bikes over the years that have been to a 'specialist' and then brought to me to be fixed properly. Otherwise, a few pictures in the right place i.e. his forum (if he has one)?
Unfortunately he is retired now but I still have his number. I'm probably best not calling him, it would be very unpleasant....but I may do anyway.

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:38 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
Do you think the head wasn't even off the bike? Looks a bit like that to me. In fact it looks more like it has never been off since it left BMW!

Given that you have provided new cams a clean up and polishing off of everywhere would have been the most basic of tasks to do even before going at blueprinting or anything like that. On any head I ever had in my hands it was meticulously cleaned up and valves lapped in and it doesn't take that much to do it. But even that alone makes quite a difference and I am only talking of road going engines.


Will/88 will be taking the head off his K1100 in the not too distant future and would be an interesting comparison.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:42 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@charlie99 wrote:sad to see mike

I read of your headgasket issues in another place
what a bugga

yes I agree the pitting of the valves hasn't happened in the last 10 hours or so

can I suggest to take an accurate measurement of the current valve length .(valve stem height when installed )..before you do anything
I would think the only way to correct the issue is to get a "good " specialized head shop to cut the seats and back to fresh metal and grind the valves about 10 thou to get the pitting "cut out " entirely

if he was building a" go fast engine " , I think I would expect at least the valves to be cut for a few  more angles ..yes ?  cant see any change from original here

the reason, if not obvious, is for the measurement is to .."top the valves length " so you can get back to "standard " shims ..as I believe they are under bucket types and likely to be a real issue getting available shim sizes .consistent across the whole yardstick

good luck mate
The valve seats will lap in nicely, I tried one this morning without much effort.
I should have done it myself in the first place.

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:46 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Do you think the head wasn't even off the bike? Looks a bit like that to me. In fact it looks more like it has never been off since it left BMW!

Given that you have provided new cams a clean up and polishing off of everywhere would have been the most basic of tasks to do even before going at blueprinting or anything like that. On any head I ever had in my hands it was meticulously cleaned up and valves lapped in and it doesn't take that much to do it. But even that alone makes quite a difference and I am only talking of road going engines.


Will/88 will be taking the head off his K1100 in the not too distant future and would be an interesting comparison.
The head has been off which kind of makes things worse don't you think? I know this because I supplied the head gasket that's just failed because most of the cases were vapour blasted due to their external condition.

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 5:49 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
The word Shyster springs to mind here!

    

24Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 6:45 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


Life time member
Life time member
I see a positive here.

Because you had the gasket failure you are now going to have a significantly better performing engine when you are back together. Better valve seating and removal of the carbon deposits does improve airflows and combustion. Road going riding probably would only feel smoother and cleaner but for track most definitely an improvement in lap timing. I think I would now be itching for my next track outing.

I like Charlie 99s post. Watch the shims too, in case any are gone concave. Whatever you do don't put them back in upside down, especially for racing. I would pull them and for the benefit of others reading the post check them for being worn concave, keep shims and valves together. Did you measure clearances before pulling the head? I am not sure about which K it relates to but did read somewhere that some other bikes shims fit Ks. Kawasaki maybe.

I suspect the most tedious part of the job will be sorting the clearances as you put it all back together.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 7:11 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
All valves, springs and followers are labelled and in collective groups. 
I didn't bother measuring clearances because I knew I'd be adjusting clearances on the rebuild. 
It would seem I'm not the only sucker needing help.Laughing
 I've had to go out and buy another valve stick as the rubber has gone hard and won't grip the valve.

    

26Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 7:39 am

charlie99

avatar
VIP
VIP
dang dontcha hate that

just when needed after many years ....which you thought you would never use again...but just in case ..bloody rubber is buggered ....giggles


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Fri May 12, 2017 7:58 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@charlie99 wrote:dang dontcha hate that

just when needed after many years ....which you thought you would never use again...but just in case ..bloody rubber is buggered ....giggles
It's not the first time I've been out of much needed rubber! lol!

    

28Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Sun May 14, 2017 12:23 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Here's what I expected to find inside a motor that's been "looked at" by so called professional engine tuner.



A cleaned up inlet valve ready to be lapped in.

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Sun May 14, 2017 8:52 pm

88

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Great Thread and pics Mike...I'd feel like throttling the "professional" in a very mechaincal way at max RPM's.


I have to toss up betweeen doing a Ducati starter motor and the k1100 head.. I think the BM wins for ease cheers


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick!
Mods: k1100 screen and stands

K1100rs 1995, Remus exhaust.
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Mon May 15, 2017 5:02 pm

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@88 wrote:Great Thread and pics Mike...I'd feel like throttling the "professional" in a very mechaincal way at max RPM's.


I have to toss up betweeen doing a Ducati starter motor and the k1100 head.. I think the BM wins for ease cheers
Thanks. I'm trying to keep a lid on it at the moment. Evil or Very Mad
Anyway, what a sod of a job building the head back up, the valve collets are so deep. After fiddling for ages to get the first pair of collets on I made a "special" tool to go over the top of the valve. Still awkward but much easier.
The neodyium magnet on the tweezers helped loads.






...and that will be the last you'll see of this for a while as a trip to the States for a month will interrupt my rebuild. Very Happy

    

31Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Mon May 15, 2017 8:33 pm

88

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Neat idea for the tool. Just a tube spanner or something with a wedge cut out of it?


__________________________________________________
88....May contain nuts!

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick!
Mods: k1100 screen and stands

K1100rs 1995, Remus exhaust.
    

32Back to top Go down    Re: 550cc K track bike. on Tue May 16, 2017 5:44 am

Motorbike Mike

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@88 wrote:Neat idea for the tool. Just a tube spanner or something with a wedge cut out of it?
Just a piece of tube with a wedge cut out of one side.  

    

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum