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1Back to top Go down    Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:23 am

FreyZI

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So, I was having trouble with the electrical on the K100 project and in frustration let it sit for a few months. A couple nights ago I decided it was time to get back to it, and in doing some research, I found the Motogadget M-Unit, a solid state circuit breaker with integrated relays, programming, and a whole lotta other jazz. I decided to drop some money on that instead of finding somebody who actually knows what they're doing. In anticipation (it comes tomorrow), I started pulling out unnecessary stuff (like the fuse panel, flasher unit, and bulb monitoring unit) and figuring out how this install is going to work. Since I've also changed out the gauges, the fuel level sensor is going away, at least for now.

The first of many questions:

I can get rid of the fuel injection relay and hook up to the power bar on an aux circuit. The fuel injection relay is switched by the ignition control unit and, when closed, sends power via two wires 1) to the fuel injection control unit (and injectors, etc.) and 2) to the temperature sensing unit -- the latter via fuse 6 (which also powers the fuel level sensor). Thus, I could simply connect one of the two output wires on the fuel injection circuit directly to the temperature sensing unit (which I gather I will need to keep). This leads me to wonder why the temperature sensing unit is powered by the fuel injection relay in the first place. Would I have to keep it that way, or I could I just hook the temp unit up to an always on aux out port? Assuming that I draw power for the temp unit from the fuel injection circuit, I assume that I should put an in-line fuse on that wire? Assuming I do that, I might be able to keep one aux circuit open for a fuel level sensor down the road.

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers,

Frey

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:55 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I don't have the answers for you but others on the forum are likely to have what you need.

You will need to give some info on the K100 model and year as the 8 and 16 valve arequite different and there are wiring changes over the life of the model..


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 87,100 miles
1997 K1100LT 58,000 miles
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:14 am

robmack

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Not mine but I'll share: M-unit schematic for K75. The M-unit will simplify signalling and lighting wiring. You can't get alter the injection and ignition wiring with the M-unit. Therefore, you can't get rid of the FI relay because it controls power to the fuel pump.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
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4Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:17 pm

axios_nt

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Hey FreyZI

Funny enough I have Been designing a new wiring diagram for my K100 with m-unit blue all day and thought about doing exactly what you mentioned. I'm very very new to bike electrics so it would be good to hear other people's thoughts on what's possible. As to me it seems like that fuel injector relay is just flinging power back into different parts. Which if re wired right the m-unit ignition cable can replicate.

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 pm

FreyZI

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Thanks Ax and Robmack. I'm working on an '85RT. The wiring diagram for the K75 may be useful. It looks like so many other diagrams that I wonder if there's software people are using? This new M-Unit Blue (available in the U.S. only this month) is replacing the V2.0 and has many upgrades, including Bluetooth to sync with your phone for setup, keyless start and other functions. It also has more inputs and outputs, the latter up from 8 to 10, including 2 programmable auxiliary outputs. Assuming all of the always on stuff (license plate illumination, for example is on Auxiliary 1, that still leaves Aux 2 for something else , i.e., l obviating the fuel relay.
Just received today. It's smaller than I expected, roughly 1x2x3. Going to camp for the weekend, so probably won't have any news on the install for a few days.

    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:55 am

axios_nt

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Mine should be arriving today also. But probably won't have time to play with it this weekend. Then off on holiday for 2 weeks myself. Do keep us posted on how it goes, I'll add pics myself of how it's going my end.

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:43 pm

KJustin

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I'm just responding so I can follow the thread. I'm very interested in this. Please report back and let us know what you did and how it all worked out.


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1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:59 pm

robmack

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Don't necessarily have to post to monitor the thread. Click the link at the top labelled "Start watching this topic".


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:01 pm

KJustin

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Thanks, I didn't realize that. Will do that in the future instead.


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1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

10Back to top Go down    update on M-Unit install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:03 am

FreyZI

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Here's a quick update on the progress.

First, I needed to get rid of some wires.

I hate cutting, but I made a good pile of wires, fuses, relays, flasher unit, etc.

Second, I had to make a mounting plate for the M-Unit. It will sit in the old circuit box. I would have preferred a longitudinal orientation, but the original relay mounting holes were too convenient -- and I wanted to leave enough space to stick a lithium battery in there should I decide to upgrade and get rid of the big lead-acid battery and tray. I should have enough room for a Pulse P2 in there. If necessary, I can make a new mounting plate that shifts the M-Unit forward some to allow extra battery room. The mount is not my best work, but, hey, it goes under the M-Unit, where nobody is ever going to see it. In case you're wondering, the M-Unit has a pair of hollows longitudinally on the bottom, so the mounting screw to the right in the photo did not need to be counter-sunk.


Here's the box with M-Unit on the bike.


Now for the wiring. I haven't got everything nicely wrapped yet, so don't give me grief. This is a beta! The wires crossing over the top of the unit to the outputs are from the aftermarket (Koso) gauges unit. The wires from the included harness are not long enough to go under the unit (as the others do), and I didn't feel like more soldering at that moment. The red/white and red/yellow on the output side are light and high beam (had to kife some wire of appropriate gauge and that's what was available and reasonably close to the white and yellow of the original).


Once I see if it works, I can tidy up wires. I'll need to connect to earth and to +12 on battery. For the latter, Motogadget demands an in-line 40 amp fuse. They supply a cable with no fuse, which seems kind of dumb. Further, the cable they supply is 8 gauge. I can't even use my cheap wire stripper, which only goes to 10 gauge (which I believe is what the original lead was). So, I'll be stopping by the auto parts store today to see if I can find a fuse for their lead.

Yes, I'll get rid of the orange cable tie visible.

More later on the specifics of how it's wired. As you can see, the only relay/switch I have left from the original wiring is the temperature switch. I got rid of the fuel injection relay and the starter relay. We'll see if this Frankenstein comes to life.

    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:17 am

axios_nt

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Looking good so far. Will be interesting to hear how well it works with the fuel and starter relay gone. Will make it a cleaner install if I can loose them also.

I've been studying the wire diagrams myself the past week so when I dive into the wire cutting I'll be confident on what to chop up.

Soon as I start on mine I'll send some pictures.

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:19 pm

robmack

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FreyZI wrote:... The wires from the included harness are not long enough to go under the unit (as the others do), and I didn't feel like more soldering at that moment. The red/white and red/yellow on the output side are light and high beam (had to kife some wire of appropriate gauge and that's what was available and reasonably close to the white and yellow of the original).
One thing I learnt from rewiring my K75 is to splice my new wiring into the middle of a run, instead of to the end of a run. This means twice the number of splices and additional soldering but there is one great advantage:

The ends of the wire will have the same colour coding even though the middle might be different. It aids tracing and troubleshooting years down the road.

It's very likely that you will use a fibreglass sheathing to encase bundles of wires with heat shrink at the ends of the cable runs. That will hide the wire splices leaving only the ends exposed. It will be nightmarish to trace wires if there is one colour for the start of the run and a different colour for the end of a run. It means you have to make and keep good documentation of your modifications so that you (or the next owner) don't go crazy.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:52 pm

FreyZI

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robmack wrote:
FreyZI wrote:... The wires from the included harness are not long enough to go under the unit (as the others do), and I didn't feel like more soldering at that moment. The red/white and red/yellow on the output side are light and high beam (had to kife some wire of appropriate gauge and that's what was available and reasonably close to the white and yellow of the original).
splice my new wiring into the middle of a run, instead of to the end of a run.
Good point, Robmack. I think I will take that advice for the Koso harness. I was a bit timid about soldering connections, but you get the hang of it pretty quick. If I were planning on doing much of this wiring stuff, I'd probably invest in a better iron, though.

Apparently an 8-guage in-line 40 amp fuse is pretty uncommon for vehicles -- none of the auto parts stores in town had such a thing, nor did Tractor Supply. However, I've learned that 8-gauge is pretty common for car stereo systems. Unfortunately, that pretty much leaves Best Buy as the only game in town and they only had a kit that included wires for $70. Looks like I'll be ordering that part online. Well, that'll give me time to put together an explanation (or maybe even a drawing) of the new circuitry for all you to critique before I have have a chance to hopefully not fry anything.

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:19 pm

robmack

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That gauge of wire -- 8 AWG -- is monstrously huge. That's way oversize for the current capacity and length of lead. Using a wire gauge to Amp chart, a 40A load can be carried by a 16 AWG wire if the lead length is kept below three feet (1 metre). Even a 16 AWG wire can handle 50A of load current over that length.

So, to be safe, choose a 14 AWG wire to supply the M-unit Blue through a 40A fuse. You should be able to find that wire at most any shop.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:13 pm

RicK G

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Saying that you need to use 8 AWG there is just ridiculous for 40Amps


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:38 am

axios_nt

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Just a thought but it's 40 amp max. I've seen multiple wiring diagrams for m unit with 30 amps fuse so that's what I've gone for.

    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:48 pm

duck

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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

18Back to top Go down    Wiring plan ready for critique on Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:59 pm

FreyZI

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Thanks for the advice on the 8 AWG wire. Yes, it's obviously overkill, but it might make life easier if ever I have to deal with Motogadget on a warranty claim.

So, I started messing around with the CAD software (I used AutoCAD R14 and 2000 years back in a prior life, so I'm at least not an idiot when it comes to that stuff). I decided better to use the wiring diagram image I've been using all along and modify it accordingly. Not sure who I should thank for the original (possibly Drake Smith?). There's definitely some similarity with the K75 M-Unit V2.0 wiring linked earlier in this thread; however, the newer Bluetooth-equipped version has a few additional input and output connections that I hope will allow me to obviate the starter relay and the fuel injection relay. So, please take a look and let me know if you see anything majorly wrong.

Cheers,

Frey

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:50 pm

axios_nt

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I might be wrong but I think pin 11 on the ignition control unit should be left un linked as was that not the ground cable for the starter relay?
Same as with pin 7 as that grounds the fuel injection relay. That's how I read the diagram. (Not sure why you had this going to aux 1 in)

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:18 am

robmack

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I'm in agreement with axios_nt. Those particular ground connections in that circuit don't look right, based on the m-unit blue documentation. The resolution of the image is low so it is difficult for me to read precisely leading to me being uncertain as to the ICU pin numbering.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:29 pm

FreyZI

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Wish I could blame it on anything other than lack of wiring experience. I thought that the yellow/brown carried a switching signal from the fuel injection relay to the ignition control unit, but apparently I had that backwards. It didn't even occur to me that the brown signaled ground, since the wires don't actually go to the frame. When you say leave those wires (brown/red and yellow/brown) "unlinked", you do mean unlinked, as opposed to grounded, right?

Thanks,

Frey

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:03 pm

axios_nt

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I'm learning all this wiring malarkey myself. But just read thishttp://www.rattlebars.com/avalanche/relay_basics.html
So I'm pretty sure that the brown red wire which went from starter relay to pin 11 on the ignition control unit was the ground wire. So leave this dead ended (unlinked)

Pin 7 on the ignition control unit went to the fuel injection relay. But I'm not sure if this was another ground cable yet. Not in front of bike so not sure.

The aux outputs look good to me. Although where is the fuel level sensor getting its power from? I would prob put that off 2 as well

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:25 pm

robmack

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The ICU controls the state of the FI and the starter relays (engaged/disengaged) depending on inputs it is receiving from various sensors (Hall Effect, and MAF, Temp sensor, TPS all via the ECU). The ICU decides to turn off the ground connections to the relays when conditions are correct. For example, the ICU will engage the FI relay when the start button is pressed and keep it engaged while the button is pressed and engine cranking (it knows the engine is cranking because the HES tells it so). When the button is released, the ICU keeps the FI relay engaged for 1.5 seconds longer and then cuts the ground wire (Yellow/Purple), which disengages the FI relay.

Same idea goes for the starter relay except the condition that causes the ICU to cut the starter relay ground is when the engine RPMs >700 (again, it knows the engine iRPMS because the HES tells it so).

So, if you connect those ground wires to your m.unit AUX terminals, bad short circuits happen and you'll let all the magic smoke out of the ICU. Yes, just leave the wires unconnected.

What are your ideas for simulating the FI and starter relay functions once you remove the ICU out of the picture?


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:40 pm

axios_nt

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I guess theoretically you could use the pin 7 ground from the icu and connect that to the ground on fuel level sensor and temp sensing unit. As that mimics the function of the ground cut out on fuel injec relay?

With regards to the icu controlling starter. All this would mean is once the engine has started, and you press starter button again it would try to turn over again. Similar to turning the key on a car which is all ready started.

Does that sound accurate?

    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:51 pm

robmack

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axios_nt wrote:I guess theoretically you could use the pin 7 ground from the icu and connect that to the ground on fuel level sensor and temp sensing unit. As that mimics the function of the ground cut out on fuel injec relay?
The FI relay is controlling current for the injectors, the ECU, the MAF sensor, the temperature relay and the fuel pump. The fuel pump is a motor which introduces a inductive load. That's potentially a lot of current you're asking to switch. Are you certain that the transistors controlling the ground inside the ICU are rated to take the current drawn by the proposed load?

The m.unit blue was not designed to simulate or replace fuel injection components; it was designed to simplify wiring on classic carbureted engines.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:11 am

axios_nt

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Ok. So then it looks like that relay needs to go back in.

    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:37 pm

boostd4

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This is great work you are doing! I too will be looking to incorporate an M.blue unit to my 1985 K100RS. I bought it as a project and it has no instrument cluster or front turns, and a questionable hack job on the rear light wiring.

You should definitely be compensated (cue the haters) for all this hard work. Once you have a working wiring diagram and verified functioning bike, you should host a high-res version you can zoom in on easily and ask for donations.

I certainly would contribute if it takes all the work outta my end Wink

    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:23 pm

FreyZI

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robmack wrote:

The m.unit blue was not designed to simulate or replace fuel injection components; it was designed to simplify wiring on classic carbureted engines.
So, the idea is to split up all that stuff that was run off the FI relay. The M-Unit has the ignition output, as well as the aux 1 output, and the aux 2 output with two connecting terminals. Both aux outputs can be configured to be active with engine start or on. I'll need to run a few things off one of the aux outputs, of course (namely license plate illumination, tail light, and gauges (all LED)). To split loads up, I planned to have the ICU fed by the ignition output; the fuel injection control unit, the temp sensing unit, and the fuel pump divvied between the aux outputs. If the fuel pump were on its own aux circuit, why would I worry about the current in the ICU? Is there something you'd try first? FYI, there's not currently a fuel level sensor (plug is there for connection to fuel pump).

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:13 am

FreyZI

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One other thing I neglected to mention. Back in June, I did contact the U.S. distributor for Motogadget and asked, "I downloaded the manual and looked it over. I didn't see anything in the manual about connecting a fuel pump / injection circuit. Is there any advice available on that?" The reply was, "If it is a +12V fuel pump you should be able to connect it to one of the AUX outputs and setup the m-unit to have the output active with ignition on." I haven't been able to find any more technical specifications re: what the auxiliary outputs can handle.

    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:18 am

axios_nt

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Yeah it's a tricky one. But following the original wiring diagram the fuel pump and temperature sensing unit is fused at 15 amps so I guess that one of the aux outputs is all which is needed for them

    

31Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:36 pm

pabloooo

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If I remember correctly, I believe a forum member on the motobrick site was able to install an m-unit blue on his k100 through the help of that original k75 wiring diagram that was posted. Might want to head over there if he isn't on this forum and maybe send a PM for some help. Username is Boxermann

    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:26 pm

robmack

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Boxermann posted his schematic and he kept the FI relay and the associated circuitry.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

33Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:08 am

axios_nt

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Ok. Bike is back up and running perfectly with m-unit blue installed.
I have put the starter and fuel injection relay back in the circuit for now. the fuel pump and temp sensing unit is wired into fuel relay again untill I'm confident I can put them on the aux 2 out put and come on with start button being pressed.

Just need to tidy up the wires a little but need bike for work this week so will finish it off this weekend and post some pics.

    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:17 pm

FreyZI

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Axios, what did you do with ignition/lock circuit? Do you have the original four-wire ignition switch? Thanks! Frey

    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:29 pm

axios_nt

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Here you go. still a tad messy. Will take new pic next week once seat arrives and I got tank off again

    

36Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:23 pm

FreyZI

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Okay, first attempt did not go well. Not sure why.

One thing I don't understand is why the manufacturer's drawings have +12V to the ignition lock and then to M.unit's "Lock" terminal. That doesn't make sense to me, because all the other terminals on that side feed electrons to switches, and on the other side, all the terminals feed electrons to various loads. Seems to me that a wire should leave the Lock terminal, go to the ignition switch, and out to earth like all the others on that side. I've seen some diagrams online that show the lock circuit as grounded thus. Any advice? I've replaced the fuel injection and starter relays. Everything hooked up and ready for another shot, once I (hopefully) get some feedback on the above.

Axios, it looks like your turn signal load wires are in the wrong place. The M.unit has two terminals dedicated to "Start" and L and R turn are the third and fourth terminals, respectively, from the end.

    

37Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:54 pm

FreyZI

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I looked at the manual again and it does expressly say "All inputs (except ignition lock) switch to earth, so I guess that answers my question. Nothing in the manual says anything about an in-line fuse before the ignition switch, but I've seen a number of diagrams online where 1-amp fuses are utilized. Guess that's what I'll do...

    

38Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:41 pm

FreyZI

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Oh, one other thing: I didn't want to put the old fuse block and cover back in, so had to figure out what to do with the hole in the circuit box. I built a 3d model of a cover plate and had it printed at the local library. Cost me $2.53. I added a pass through for the rear wiring.

    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Motogadget M-Unit Blue Install on Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:21 pm

axios_nt

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The pic i took was before i realised i had put the indicators wires in the wrong slot. It all wokrs fine now so no issues. with regards to the ignition wires, i have the original 4 but took only the 2 needed for on (no parking lights enabled) i also havent put an inline fuse in that part as the new blue manual didnt say it needed it. Even thow there is countless diagrams with people doing it i havent. Also when the Iphone app comes out i wont be using a key anyway.... still waiting for that thow.

    

40Back to top Go down    It's aliiiiive! on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:58 pm

FreyZI

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Alda's heart beats once more! Albeit not that strongly. Definitely needs a tune up.



Absolutely have quite a few niggles to work out, but I'm encouraged.

    

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