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1Back to top Go down    Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 19:28

Danish biker

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We all know it and we all hate it. We get out in the garage to jump on the bike and take a ride and we see oil under the bike Sad

Took the buttom of the fairing off and cleaned the lower engine. Took two long rides. After first one there was no sign of any leaking. Got my hopes up........we all know how that works.

After second ride today I see oil. I know you probably can't tell anything from the pictures but give me your best shot. I'm hoping the leak is from the "buttom pan" (I'm not English by birth so excuse my lack of technical words) since I can fix this myself. I know it might come from a higher point then the one circled on the picture. The other picture shows a hole (or what ever) in what I assume is the gearbox. Looks as if there is fresh oil here a as well??

I'm of course freaking a bit out since I have no idea if the hole in the transmission/gearbox "what ever" is actually a screw missing. Maybe for draining gearbox oil. Sorry don't shoot me but I know VERY little about the BMW engine.


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2Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 20:30

Laitch

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In the first photo, that opening is called a weep hole. It helps to indicate seals are leaking. It is designed to be open.

What does the fluid smell like—motor oil or transmission fluid? A common cause of motor oil coming from that hole is a defective o-ring in the clutch assembly. Is your clutch slipping?


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3Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 20:47

Danish biker

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Laitch wrote:In the first photo, that opening is called a weep hole. It helps to indicate seals are leaking. It is designed to be open.

What does the fluid smell like—motor oil or transmission fluid? A common cause of motor oil coming from that hole is a defective o-ring in the clutch assembly. Is your clutch slipping?
 There is defenetly coming oil out the hole. Nope my clutch is working as normal.

The oil doesn't smell of anything.


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4Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 20:50

Laitch

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It is motor oil. What is the oil's level in the sight glass?


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5Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 21:02

92KK 84WW Olaf


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The second photo you have marked a circle around a sump bolt?

Is there oil there? Is there a leak around a that bolt?

Reason I ask is that few weeks ago I had oil leaking and discovered one of the sump bolts was the problem. I did not have the sump off since I got he bike 4 years ago so checked them for tightness and the one with the leak was not tight. I found it because it was gathering around that same weep hole. Tightened it up and the problem was solved.

For now make sure you put bike on centre stand so any oil that is in there comes out the weep hole.

As said no smell means its engine and not gearbox oil.

The oil level should ideally be on the centre of the dot in the sight glass with the bike on the centre stand and should never be above the red circle. According to the manual I have 600ml is the amount from the bottom of the circle to the top of the circle. If its too high drain off some. This is very important.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 22:50

Danish biker

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Thanks to both of you.

What is the torque on the sump bolts?

The oil level is as it is supposed to be.

There is, as mentioned, defenetly oil leaking out of the hole. 

I'm pretty sure there is oil on/around the sump bolt. I was hoping this was the only leak, since it would be relatively easy to fix myself. I'll of course try to tighten the bolt as soon as I know the torque.

I'm fearing I'm facing two leaks. What is the chance of that??? Never had a leak and as soon as I see a drop of oil on the floor I later see oil two places.

So let's disregard the sump bolt. Fill me in on the "hole"? It is too much engineoli being transferred out or am I facing a major problem.


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7Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 23:05

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I am probably like many in that I have never used a torque wrench on a sump bolt. However I do not use a long Allen key to avoid over tightening. A friend who has an OCD workshop has half dozen colour coded torque wrenches set to his favourite settings.......and one is for sump plugs.
But you should have a new 'crush washer' every time you change the oil....but again lots of us reuse them too.

You definitely need to clean off all the surfaces of the bolt, washer and sump when you have the bolt out.

What you can do to check if all is ok is loosen the bolt slightly, then retighten it.

I found that I had a leak at the oil pump one time too, also the sump plate bolt another time and the oil blew backwards and ended up looking like it came out the weep hole.

You will be making very sure the leak is not some other problem because the last one is the rear main seal in behind the flywheel and that's not a do it yourself job for everyone.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 23:23

Danish biker

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I am probably like many in that I have never used a torque wrench on a sump bolt. However I do not use a long Allen key to avoid over tightening. A friend who has an OCD workshop has half dozen colour coded torque wrenches set to his favourite settings.......and one is for sump plugs.
But you should have a new 'crush washer' every time you change the oil....but again lots of us reuse them too.

You definitely need to clean off all the surfaces of the bolt, washer and sump when you have the bolt out.

What you can do to check if all is ok is loosen the bolt slightly, then retighten it.

I found that I had a leak at the oil pump one time too, also the sump plate bolt another time and the oil blew backwards and ended up looking like it came out the weep hole.

You will be making very sure the leak is not some other problem because the last one is the rear main seal in behind the flywheel and that's not a do it yourself job for everyone.

Sorry if I'm a bit slow. Just don't want to do anything I shouldn't be doing.

1. What is a "crush washer"?

2. Are you suggesting I loosen the sump bolt where there is a bit of oil, and tighten it again?

3. What about the hole in the bottom of the engine where there is defenetly oil leaking from?


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9Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 13 Jul 2017 - 23:56

Laitch

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Danish biker wrote:I'm fearing I'm facing two leaks. What is the chance of that???

So let's disregard the sump bolt. Fill me in on the "hole"? It is too much engineoli being transferred out or am I facing a major problem.
The chance of two leaks is 50:50. Smile

Elaborating on Olaf's response:

A crush washer is a washer that provides tension to prevent loosening of the bolt.
If that oil pan bolt were on my bike and I thought it was loose, I'd just tighten it more. Clean the oil off all the surfaces then dust them all with baby powder—if there are any babies nearby. That might help locate the leak's source.

If you have a minor o-ring or minor main seal oil leak, oil slowly will seep down the wall of the intermediate housing and exit from the weep hole. If a leak becomes a major leak, it might migrate to the clutch disk also, causing the clutch to slip. You have asserted that the oil level is appropriate so overfilling isn't causing a leak at this location.

Cruise in 4th or 5th gear then quickly give the bike full throttle. If ground speed doesn't increase for a moment but engine speed does, the clutch is probably starting to slip. An oil leak might cause that; a poorly adjusted clutch or severely worn clutch disc can also cause that.

If clutch adjustment and disc wear are ok but the clutch slips momentarily during the test conditions, it is likely that oil is starting to affect the friction disc's grip. You can ride for thousands of miles by accommodating your riding style to that. I wouldn't worry about it. Eventually, the o-ring, main seal or friction disc will be replaced but not necessarily all three. Some people replace all three in a bid for their bike's immortality.

Many of us accept and understand that particular condition is probably going to happen sooner or later. When replacing the o-ring or seal, replacing the clutch push rod boot is often done too, along with a few other housekeeping operations. Like Olaf indicates, some of us might pass main seal replacement to somebody else. You are not at that point yet.

Right now, enjoy riding the bike and leave fear behind. Smile



Last edited by Laitch on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 0:40; edited 1 time in total


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10Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 0:06

duck

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If you change the filter every time you change the oil then there really is no need to ever remove the oil drain plug.


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
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11Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 1:44

Danish biker

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duck wrote:If you change the filter every time you change the oil then there really is no need to ever remove the oil drain plug.
Good point but there is no leak from the drain plug.

Laitch wrote:
The chance of two leaks is 50:50. Smile

Ha, ha actually very funny. My life in a nutshell. You know Muphys law. 

Laitch
A crush washer is a washer that provides tension to prevent loosening of the bolt.




Ok that would be a lock ring in my part of the world but I get why it is called "crush" now I know what it is.


LaitchIf that oil pan bolt were on my bike and I thought it was loose, I'd just tighten it more. Clean the oil off all the surfaces then dust them all with baby powder—if there are any babies nearby. That might help locate the leak's source.

Well I didn't think it was loose until Olaf told me Very Happy

I tightened it about 1/8-1/4 turn (and some of the other as well). A tourgue how ever would have "told" me if it was loose.

I have a two year old grandson, but he is passed baby powder (but nice point). How ever I don't think the leak is present when the bike is just parked. It "turns up after a hard ride". Which is guess would be common for many rider. So baby powder might fly of food before it will show the leak. But I'm open for any suggestions.

LaitchIf you have a minor o-ring or minor main seal oil leak, oil slowly will seep down the wall of the intermediate housing and exit from the weep hole. If a leak becomes a major leak, it might migrate to the clutch disk also, causing the clutch to slip. You have asserted that the oil level is appropriate so overfilling isn't causing a leak at this location.

I'm thinking I'm f..... and eventually will have to spend $1.000 our more at a shop Mad


LaitchCruise in 4th or 5th gear then quickly give the bike full throttle. If ground speed doesn't increase for a moment but engine speed does, the clutch is probably starting to slip. An oil leak might cause that; a poorly adjusted clutch or severely worn clutch disc can also cause that.

I've always had the feeling that when I give full throttle in 5th gear the bike doesn't react promptly but always thought it was because a "shift down" was required.

So actually it might be due to a poorly adjusted clutch or oil in the clutch. Boy I need someone like you yo take my bike for at ride.  Cool


LaitchIf clutch adjustment and disc wear are ok but the clutch slips momentarily during the test conditions, it is likely that oil is starting to affect the friction disc's grip. You can ride for thousands of miles by accommodating your riding style to that. I wouldn't worry about it. Eventually, the o-ring, main seal or friction disc will be replaced but not necessarily all three. Some people replace all three in a bid for their bike's immortality.

I'm still not sure if it is clutch slipping or me just not down shifting before I want a fast pass of a car driving in front of me.

So I shouldn't worry until I can actually see oil use gets high??


Laitch
Many of us accept and understand that particular condition is probably going to happen sooner or later. When replacing the o-ring or seal, replacing the clutch push rod boot is often done too, along with a few other housekeeping operations. Like Olaf indicates, some of us might pass main seal replacement to somebody else. You are not at that point yet.

Oh boy I sure don't hope. Will cost a million here. 


LaitchRight now, enjoy riding the bike and leave fear behind. Smile


And live with oil on my garage floor. 

Seriously with all the great information you have given me I'm fearing I'm close to the point when I need the o-rings you mention, replaced.

PS thought I had the quoting cowered but somewhere I f..... up. Sorry but I'm sure you can tell where you end and start Very Happy


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12Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 2:12

92KK 84WW Olaf


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To put your mind at ease my o ring and main seal were kaput.

But the weep hole was showing signs of oil for best part of 12 months in which time the bike had done over 15k miles from when I first spotted it. Knowing it was a decent job to do I left it as long as I could then bought everything to do a complete houseclean in there. The clutch plate had about 5k miles at most left on it and it was showing some signs of contamination so it was no loss and would have needed doing anyway. I went easy on the clutch, park it so no oil can accumulate inside the housing, don't over fill the oil, park on main stand is a great help. Keep the hole clean and any oil will drain out quickly.

All in I think the list of parts for that part of my work was not much over €250 from Motobins. That included things like exhaust studs, nuts and washers, clutch boot/clip and all the seals, clutch bolts, pivot bearings, etc.

I did other jobs as well, and got parts separately for them: changed the stand assembly, new battery, brake cleaning, full service, new fan, brake switches, gear position switch, greased all splines, balanced up throttle bodies etc.

My reasoning was that if I were to sell the K now it has all the nasty jobs done and would reflect in the price. The difference here is probably about €500 or so. But I don't, I just want a reliable K and happy I have that.

With the help of a friend here I got the job done over 3 days because we did a lot of other things. It took us just 1 hour from parking the bike on the bench to having the rear seal in our hands and we had to change the stand as out very first job. Copious quantities of WD40 on all potential stuck fixings paid off handsomely, not one fixing was a problem.

If you have a K owner not too far away a shared work session works very well. At the moment we have an ongoing one with Magda's K100 and at the moment Will [88] who talked you through the sprag clutch is sorting her oil/water pump rebuild. You are not too far away...........

I can happily give you a copy of the parts list from Motobins, on my list the only two parts we didn't use were the clutch release bearing and the pushrod seal.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 2:37

Point-Seven-five

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If I may add two more cents to the conversation.  

First, it is not a bad idea to get in and do a thorough service from the clutch back on a new machine.  It will give you the opportunity to become intimately familiar with the drive train of your bike as well as give a feeling of confidence that all is well with the parts that make the bike go.

Doing the o-ring adds a small bit of cost to the job, but the return is that you will not have to deal with it again for a long time.

Second, judging from the photos you have posted, corrosion doesn't look too bad on your bike.  I would think that seized fasteners should not be too much of an issue.  Take your time, pay attention to details and with a few days in the shop you will have everything back there in good nick.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 2:42

Danish biker

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:To put your mind at ease my o ring and main seal were kaput.

But the weep hole was showing signs of oil for best part of 12 months in which time the bike had done over 15k miles from when I first spotted it. Knowing it was a decent job to do I left it as long as I could then bought everything to do a complete houseclean in there. The clutch plate had about 5k miles at most left on it and it was showing some signs of contamination so it was no loss and would have needed doing anyway. I went easy on the clutch, park it so no oil can accumulate inside the housing, don't over fill the oil, park on main stand is a great help. Keep the hole clean and any oil will drain out quickly.

All in I think the list of parts for that part of my work was not much over €250 from Motobins. That included things like exhaust studs, nuts and washers, clutch boot/clip and all the seals, clutch bolts, pivot bearings, etc.

I did other jobs as well, and got parts separately for them: changed the stand assembly, new battery, brake cleaning, full service, new fan, brake switches, gear position switch, greased all splines, balanced up throttle bodies etc.

My reasoning was that if I were to sell the K now it has all the nasty jobs done and would reflect in the price. The difference here is probably about €500 or so. But I don't, I just want a reliable K and happy I have that.

With the help of a friend here I got the job done over 3 days because we did a lot of other things. It took us just 1 hour from parking the bike on the bench to having the rear seal in our hands and we had to change the stand as out very first job. Copious quantities of WD40 on all potential stuck fixings paid off handsomely, not one fixing was a problem.

If you have a K owner not too far away a shared work session works very well. At the moment we have an ongoing one with Magda's K100 and at the moment Will [88] who talked you through the sprag clutch is sorting her oil/water pump rebuild. You are not too far away...........

I can happily give you a copy of the parts list from Motobins, on my list the only two parts we didn't use were the clutch release bearing and the pushrod seal.


Thanks a lot. However I would never be able to do the job myself. I would have to go to a garage and pay for the work.

Parking on the centerstand is "point taken" however I use a shorter RAM suspension and can only get the bike on the centerstand if I first push it up on a board (size of a brig). Can't carry that board around Very Happy

I'll monitor the "problem" and keep you informed.


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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
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15Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 2:47

Point-Seven-five

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Just curious, why can't you do your own work?  If you can ride it and read a manual you can do the work these machines require.  They are surprisingly easy to work on.  Do you have a problem with having a place to work?


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 3:42

Danish biker

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Good question

The list is long

1. Any manual I can find is in German or English. My English is quite good but my techinal English is absolutely no good. Just figureing out what the "crush thing" was, gave me a hard time.

2. I have close to none experience when it comes to working on an engine.

3. I do not have the proper tools.

4. My garage is a part of an old barn. The wind blows in sand and dust. In winter it is COLD.

5. I am totally confused just figuring out where the 3 o-rings are and how to get to them. Is it the gearbox, transmission or some other part of the engine. Nope way out of my league.

Now if I had a buddy who knew it would not be a problem but I would get so stuck without direct help.

    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 12:08

Holister

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I'd been riding around with a leaky O-ring for nearly a year with my K1100RS and was putting off. But when I saw oil on the floor one morning I decided it needed doing. Should only take you 2 or 3 days if you focus and do a bit of homework. The big thing is stripping everything off the back of the bike up to the crankcase.

Tools you'll need will be...
A socket set in 1/4" and 3/8" with extension.
An allen key socket set.
A torque wrench.
Assortment of spanners.
Something to chock the block up when you take the centre stand off or support the rear of the frame.
Something to brace or hold the bike upright to prevent it from falling over.
Clutch centering tool will be less than $50 but I found it to be useless and ended up aligning it by eye. Got it first time.

The parts are inexpensive unless you find the clutch needs replacing and that's not really likely imo.

Probably the most annoying thing to be done is getting the ABS out and back in.

It only seems daunting because you're not sure what the procedure is. There will be plenty of help from everyone here if you decide to go down that path. Putting it in the shop for the service will be expensive and you may find that if they aren't familiar with this model (which is common) there could be problems.


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 14:32

Point-Seven-five

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I'm with Hollister.  You should be able to do the job in 2-3 days.  Careful disassembly of the bike up to the crankcase is straightforward, and if you take the time to put the small parts and fasteners in labelled plastic bags reassembly is rather easy as well.

We can talk you through any questions you may have, and offer some tips for making things easier.  Most of us here have been into their bikes as far as you need to go when we have done clutch spline lubes.  It's almost an initiation into the brotherhood of brick ownership.

You can do the job for less than 1/5 of what a dealer will charge, and when you are done you will have a set of tools that will enable you to do almost any maintenance job the bike will ever need.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 18:59

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I was amazed at how simple it is. Not having done it before was in a friends workshop and he had done many. We had the rear main seal out in 1 hour on the K100RT and that hour included replacing the complete stand assembly to be able to do the job. The ABS on the K1100 will make it take a bit longer but its a very logical process.  We ended up with the complete rear end disconnected off the bell housing in one piece. Front of bike was strapped down and a jack under the engine. If you have a scaffolding trestle you can use it to hang the rear of the bike.

But my decision was to do everything while in there so all the seals boots etc got done except the clutch pushrod seal. If its good leave it along-if it goes wrong seal ends up in gearbox-dismantle gearbox.

Not sure what the clutch plate is like on the K1100 but I replaced mine with a new one, £62 plus VAT. The parts for the whole lot were not expensive and was well worth doing. Everything needed was in my parts bag from Motobins and ended up with clutch seal and release bearing left over.

You don't need a lot of tools to do it and I discovered the tool kit I carry travelling could have done the complete job apart from the absence of a torque wrench.

Things that made it easy...

Copious quantities of WD 40 beforehand on
Footrest hangers
Swing arm bolts
Exhaust studs and nuts
Exhaust mounts
Rear brake caliper bolts
Anything that's going to be opened.
Lots of copper grease for putting it all back together.

Things to buy easily forgotten...
Gasket for gear position indicator
New exhaust studs and nuts AND gaskets
Clutch bolts
Flywheel bolt
Flywheel O ring
Clutch pivot boot AND the clip. Even if good that boot WILL fail.
Main seal should be BMW not alternatives. Done research here and my mate spent years at a BMW main dealer and since then also on BMWs. Not much saving on alternatives. Don't push the seal home all the way.
Do the gearbox input and output seals too.

Look out for alternator monkey nuts, may be on way out but easy to do any time......easy on the K100RT anyway.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 19:01

Danish biker

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I hear you but am still not too keen on the idea. But we all know some things just have to settle in ones mind and that might take a while.

So still many ifs and buts.

Now getting to where Holisters picture is taken will take some courage and help but then what?

I still have absolutely no idea what o-rings we are talking about. And several of you mention "if the clutch is worn". How will I know? I wouldn't even know which part is the clutch Very Happy

Secondarily wouldn't it be stupid to do such a large job with our replacing the clutch on a bike that has passes 100.000 km. Especially when I feel what Laitch wrote about cruising in 4. or 5. gear and then give full speed etc. might be the case.

92KK 84WW Olaf I'm not even sure what 1/4 of all the needed parts you mention are. Of course I could figure it out eventually but you must also understand I'm on VERY deep water. 

As mentioned I have no idea what the 3 o-rings are or where they are, and what the clutch looks like when worn or ok. As long as I don't understand this I'm more confused then on right track.

Any way I fully understand the overwhelming knowledge there is to be found on the forum and I fully respect your ideas and suggestions. How ever "turn offs" are when you mention "the ABS can be hard to get off". In my head I just go "as everything else isn't hard enough as it is".

Oh well I'll need some time to decide if I feel I'm up for the challenge.

And for all of you who takes the time this is for you:



Last edited by Danish biker on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 19:39; edited 2 times in total


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21Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 19:37

92KK 84WW Olaf


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What I will do is post up the list of parts I got from Motobins and others can post some comments on these. Bear in mind that mine was a K100, not a K1100 but as far as I see much the same methods apply.

You are right in saying replacing the clutch should be done but chances are you will only be replacing the friction plate and not the complete clutch. If it was mine I would be replacing it.

If you have a barn have you place where someone can pitch some tents? Thinking could some K riders come your way for a workshop camp and do like we have done at Magda's to get her K100 sorted?


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 19:43

Danish biker

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:If you have a barn have you place where someone can pitch some tents? Thinking could some K riders come your way for a workshop camp and do like we have done at Magda's to get her K100 sorted?

If someone wanted a vacation in Denmark (and do some work along with me on my bike in the evenings) I would bed, breakfast, lunch and dinner them as long as it takes (not the 3 days work "on and off") but the whole vacation time. I would of course also be the guide.


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23Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 21:08

Dai

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I think there might be a bit of confusion as to what a 'crush washer' is. It is not a lock (or locking) ring - that is something else entirely. What we usually refer to as a crush washer is made of soft aluminium and starts out at a given thickness which depends on the application. When you tighten up the bolt that the washer is on, the washer is 'crushed' between the bolt and the surface (in this case, the sump). It is designed to form a seal between two possibly imperfect surfaces.

One other place - actually many other places - on the bike where you will find crush washers is the hydraulic system. All those copper washers are 'crush washers'. BTW, never use aluminium washers in the hydraulic system. The hydraulic fluid will eat them for a snack, just before you need to do an emergency stop.

Wandering slightly off-topic, when it comes to the hydraulic system my preference is to use 'Dowty' washers rather than copper washers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonded_seal

They are far more forgiving than copper washers in that when you tighten up the brake hose, if the hose is in the wrong position then it can be slackened off, repositioned and tightened up again without hydraulic fluid leaking out while you are doing the respositioning. If you find yourself in a position where you need to strip part of the hydraulic system and you have no new washers, Dowty washers can also be re-used. I don't recommend it but I have done it on a few occasions without any subsequent problems.

Right - if someone says 'what about annealing' I'm going to say you've got to be at least as old as I am! Very Happy

Finally, I'm with Duck on draining the oil. For the few Euros that a new filter costs, doing it every time is worth it for the engine.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
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24Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 21:12

duck

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Danish biker wrote:I hear you but am still not too keen on the idea. But we all know some things just have to settle in ones mind and that might take a while.

Yes, the biggest obstacle is your brain dealing with the unknown.  I put off doing my first spline lube many years ago for this very reason.  Once I'd done it I kicked myself for having worried so much about it ahead of time.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 23:27

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I considered mentioning annealing....does that mean we go over to the ol' fart section of the forum?

But it works........damn anyway never shoulda gotten that induction hob....


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 1:15

Danish biker

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Dai wrote:I think there might be a bit of confusion as to what a 'crush washer' is. It is not a lock (or locking) ring - that is something else entirely. What we usually refer to as a crush washer is made of soft aluminium and starts out at a given thickness which depends on the application. When you tighten up the bolt that the washer is on, the washer is 'crushed' between the bolt and the surface (in this case, the sump). It is designed to form a seal between two possibly imperfect surfaces.
Oh boy that didn't help  Very Happy

I am aware that the crush washer was the possible problem when we talked about a possible leak from my sump. If there actually is a leak here it is not a problem for me to fix.

The leak from the weep hole however is another matter. Here I thought the problem was 3 o-rings. In my world a o-ring is a seal/gasket made of rubber.

So now I'm more confused. 

The two black (top on picture) are o-ring. The buttom ones are what is called a lock-ring and what I think you call a crush washer.



Last edited by Danish biker on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 2:10; edited 2 times in total


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27Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 1:20

Inge K.

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Crush washer is a aluminium or copper gasket used on drain/filler plugs.


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K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 2:12

Danish biker

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Inge K. wrote:Crush washer is a aluminium or copper gasket used on drain/filler plugs.
 Yes but why is this relevant regarding the oil leaking from the weep hole.

Laitch
If you have a minor o-ring or minor main seal oil leak, oil slowly will seep down the wall of the intermediate housing and exit from the weep hole. If a leak becomes a major leak, it might migrate to the clutch disk also, causing the clutch to slip. You have asserted that the oil level is appropriate so overfilling isn't causing a leak at this location.

So if I take everything apart I would like to know what I'm looking for? Is it a leak from a o-ring (think 3 was mentioned earlier). A main seal or a crush ring.

I know you probably can't determine from the information I've given but I'm not taking apart my bike with out knowing what I'm trying to fix.


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29Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 5:58

Dai

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Bottom right in your picture is a spring washer.

What relevance does the crush washer have to the current discussion? Not much. Blame Olaf for setting that hare running (post #7 Very Happy ).

I bow to the other guys on here - your weep is likely to be the seal at the back of the clutch.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 6:12

Danish biker

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Dai wrote:your weep is likely to be the seal at the back of the clutch.

Okay (I'm imagine a large seal between two large engine parts). But why does it come out of the hole and not between the clutch and engine (visibel part from outside view).

Excuse my total ignorance but even if I take as much apart as you suggest why? I would have absolutely now clue what I would be looking for.

Buttom line: "Are we talking about me replacing every seal up to the engine".

Still haven't got any, what so ever, clue to "the 3 o-rings". Maybe I just got that part mixed up???


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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
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31Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 6:24

duck

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The weep hole is there so that you know when it is leaking.  Also, if there were no weep hole then the oil would just puddle up in the bottom of the bellhousing.

The water/oil pump also has a weep hole to let you know when the seal in that goes bad.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 7:57

Danish biker

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duck wrote:The weep hole is there so that you know when it is leaking.  Also, if there were no weep hole then the oil would just puddle up in the bottom of the bellhousing.

The water/oil pump also has a weep hole to let you know when the seal in that goes bad.
Makes perfect sense. But still i don't know what I would be looking for if I take everything apart.


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33Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 8:11

Inge K.

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This is a older model than yours, you gonna get a bit more job with the paralever and the ABS.
Removing of the o-ring you can see at 6:30, main seal at 7:00.


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K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 18:57

Danish biker

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Inge K. wrote:
This is a older model than yours, you gonna get a bit more job with the paralever and the ABS.
Removing of the o-ring you can see at 6:30, main seal at 7:00.
Thanks. After watching I'm sure I'm not going do to this by myself.


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35Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 20:22

duck

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Inge K. wrote:



This is a older model than yours, you gonna get a bit more job with the paralever and the ABS.
Removing of the o-ring you can see at 6:30, main seal at 7:00.

I call bullshit on that video. There's no way those six clutch bolts came out that easily! lol!


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

36Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 22:03

Laitch

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Danish biker wrote:Thanks. After watching I'm sure I'm not going do to this by myself.
The guy in the video didn't do it by himself either, so you are in good company. Smile


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37Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 3:09

Danish biker

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Laitch wrote:The guy in the video didn't do it by himself either, so you are in good company. Smile

Yes i noticed 3 guys at one time. 

I apreseate members on this forum that find it a task a person like me can do almost alone. How ever it would be like me claiming I could teach you about training a army K9 (I've worked with army K9 for 27 years) over the internet. 

The job needed on my bike takes experience just like training a K9. The general rule about training a K9 is "you ruin the first but it is your learning period". I cannot afford to make mistakes while taking my bike apart. 

However my decision is based on all the super qualified information I have received here.

I bow in the dust (don't know if this Danish expression makes sense in English) to all you very skilled people.

If I at some point find someone who is more up for it then I am then I will use all this information to get the job done.


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38Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 3:50

Avenger GT

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Danish biker wrote:
Dai wrote:I think there might be a bit of confusion as to what a 'crush washer' is. It is not a lock (or locking) ring - that is something else entirely. What we usually refer to as a crush washer is made of soft aluminium and starts out at a given thickness which depends on the application. When you tighten up the bolt that the washer is on, the washer is 'crushed' between the bolt and the surface (in this case, the sump). It is designed to form a seal between two possibly imperfect surfaces.
Oh boy that didn't help  Very Happy

I am aware that the crush washer was the possible problem when we talked about a possible leak from my sump. If there actually is a leak here it is not a problem for me to fix.

The leak from the weep hole however is another matter. Here I thought the problem was 3 o-rings. In my world a o-ring is a seal/gasket made of rubber.

So now I'm more confused. 

The two black (top on picture) are o-ring. The buttom ones are what is called a lock-ring and what I think you call a crush washer.



And the bottom left one is a serrated washer.

    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 18:47

92KK 84WW Olaf


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duck wrote:
Inge K. wrote:



This is a older model than yours, you gonna get a bit more job with the paralever and the ABS.
Removing of the o-ring you can see at 6:30, main seal at 7:00.

I call bullshit on that video. There's no way those six clutch bolts came out that easily! lol!

Mine did and it was the original clutch plate too. From 1984. But by the time we had gotten to them I was feeling very lucky as every bolt had come out as it should, even the exhaust studs and nuts. We all know that's mighty rare on an old bike/car/whatever. They all got copious WD40 over a few weeks before the job but clutch bolts obviously didn't. You do have to plan for a problem, I never saw a job go so text book but can't overstress the WD40.
You can do it on your own but so much easier with two.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

40Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 18:54

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I have a really wild idea.

Mine was in trouble for a long time before I went at it, well over 10k miles.

So, a thought, wonder now would a ride to somewhere that one could organise a workshop weekend?

At the moment Eccentrics got together to sort Magda's K100 which is well in hand, we have Becky in Blackpool with a K100LT needing a clutch and who incidentally has workshop space and has been over here so would love to see hers sorted too. Since she needs a clutch one is looking at some very similar work.......Might have a word with her....

While a bench/lift is good the job can be done without one and no doubt some here have done that.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

41Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 21:45

Point-Seven-five

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I think we are beating a dead horse here.  Danish Biker isn't confident he can do the job, and nothing we can say will change his mind. 

He has two choices here:

1.  Ride the bike until the leak fouls his clutch and spend the money to make the repairs, or

2.  Sell the bike while it is still in good running condition.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
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Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
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1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

42Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Wed 19 Jul 2017 - 21:58

92KK 84WW Olaf


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88 talked Danish Biker through a sprag clutch problem and he did it all exactly right and got it sorted with lots of messages and photos. That involved getting the right hand engine cover off and getting radiator hoses out of the way.

I know the seal is bit more complex and it does help ones confidence to have someone around.

Maybe some halfway measure an be worked out.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

43Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 0:35

Danish biker

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Point-Seven-five wrote:I think we are beating a dead horse here.  Danish Biker isn't confident he can do the job, and nothing we can say will change his mind. 

He has two choices here:

1.  Ride the bike until the leak fouls his clutch and spend the money to make the repairs, or

2.  Sell the bike while it is still in good running condition.

Actually 3 choices. And the first would be go to the BMW shop and have them do the job 😏

Olaf I'm VERY keen on your idea but I don't want to push myself forward and make other people work for me. Invited how ever is another matter Very Happy

I'll observe my leak VERY carefull and hope the work can wait till end of season. I'm sure even help form a car mechanic (which would be much easier to find) would make me able to do the job.


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44Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 8:19

Holister

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Buy me a plane ticket and I'll come and do it for you... 😁


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

45Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 11:00

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I noticed you would never ask, but at various times some of us can do these sort of things. I cant offer as have a holiday commitment and workload is high but there might be other alternatives.

I am sure if you got the K and your tent and the necessary parts down to St Leon in September we would find a way of doing it while you were there.......Team effort but it would mean a full parts order list to completely eliminate any risk of being held up for a missing part. However I managed to do that with mine and had never been near a main seal before so I worked on the principle of replacing anything that might be an issue. Was a good call as lots of the possibly reused parts were not the best and it saved a huge amount of time by not having to clean things like clips and boots.

Having said all that you did mention having a car mechanic available and as long as he knows what he is doing and will take his time and take advice from the forum it could be a good option. You would need to make sure he pays close attention to forum advice because the forum usually knows better...

Other option is to see what the BMW shop would charge for it.



Last edited by 92KK 84WW Olaf on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 17:32; edited 1 time in total


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1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

46Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 11:09

RicK G

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How much oil is leaking? is there oil on the rear wheel or is it a few drops on the floor overnight. The main thing, is it necessary to do the job now or will it wait till winter?
Old proverb "Never put off to tomorrow what can be left till much later". Laughing


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Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

47Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 11:47

TacKler

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Holister wrote:Buy me a plane ticket and I'll come and do it for you... 😁

Me too.  I'll even throw in the parts for free.


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48Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 17:40

92KK 84WW Olaf


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Given that we know the main seal seems to last a considerable time before it fails maybe look at how much you use the K over the next few months.

It might seem a long way off but I am sure a trip to Becky's place could generate some assistance on this one. Her K100LT is parked needing a clutch and she is busy restoring an older bike with her dad.

Space there for doing the two bikes and if planned far enough off we could get some more knowledgeable persons on board to do the 2 bikes if we have all the parts.

I know it is possible to do the whole lot in a day, in fact Will/88 was replacing a main seal on his K100 at 1am and at 7am it was parked outside his house loaded up with camping gear for a trip to France ready for a 1pm lunch at the ferryport. The important thing with this is to have every part you might need in hand.

I am not sure if Becky will read this but I will bounce it off her as we have kept in touch and discussed the possibility of a workshop.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

49Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 17:59

Danish biker

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Holister wrote:Buy me a plane ticket and I'll come and do it for you... 😁
Will a one-way do  Very Happy


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50Back to top Go down    Re: Oil leak K1100 RS on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 18:06

Danish biker

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RicK G wrote:How much oil is leaking? is there oil on the rear wheel or is it a few drops on the floor overnight. The main thing, is it necessary to do the job now or will it wait till winter?
Old proverb "Never put off to tomorrow what can be left till much later". Laughing

I noticed two drops of oil on the floor.

I then took off the lower faring (we call it snowplow).

The buttom of the engine was greasy and there was sand stuck to the oil. I cleaned everything up.

Defenetly oil coming out of the hole (but not very much and nothing like covered back wheel). However I haven't ridden very much since the leak.

Secondary I can't yet 100 % determine if there is oil from the sump. Need more riding.

I'm waiting till winter to fix it one way or the other.


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