BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down    Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 2:27 am

George_Pap

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Hello all.
Its another noob question. Had my K100RT for some initial ride after rebuild.
When lifting hands from handlebars noticed a slight change of the course to the right. Slight but there.
Is it acceptable?

Thank you Smile


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 4:47 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Road camber, you ride on the right hand side of the road.

With shaft drive you won't have the possibility of the wheels being out of line.Just make sure you have nomisalignment of the handlebars.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Mystic Red 58,645 now 80,700 miles
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 4:55 am

George_Pap

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@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Just make sure you have nomisalignment of the handlebars.
Hmm. Interesting. I think i noticed a couple of centimeters missalignment when messing with the instrument cluster. Didn't thought that this could be so crucial to steering. I didn't fix it because removing that handlebars top panel looked a bit of headache and by that time had several other headache causes Smile
Thanks Smile


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 7:03 am

Dai

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Get hold of a good long straight edge (a scaffolding pole or scaffolding plank are a good bet). Put the bike on the main stand and set the handlebars to 'straight'. Now put the straight edge against the back tyre and check to see if it is parallel to the front tyre. That will guide you as to whether the headstock is twisted (or not). I doubt it is - it's probably road camber.

Another (easier) check is to loosen the front axle pinch bolts and the mudguard brace. Also loosen off the steering stem nut on the top of the handlebars. Slacken - but don't loosen! - the fork yoke pinch bolts. You just want to ease these off being fully tight but not loosen them to the point where the fork will drop through when you grab the brake.

Now grab the front brake and bounce the bike hard against it a few times. If there's any misalignment in the front forks area, that should fix it. Don't be surprised if you hear a sudden bang - that will be the fork sliders realigning themselves. Tighten the fork yoke pinch bolts first, followed by the axle pinch bolts.

I do this on every new build to make sure the front end is where it should be.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 7:10 am

George_Pap

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@Dai wrote:Get hold of a good long straight edge (a scaffolding pole or scaffolding plank are a good bet). Put the bike on the main stand and set the handlebars to 'straight'. Now put the straight edge against the back tyre and check to see if it is parallel to the front tyre. That will guide you as to whether the headstock is twisted (or not). I doubt it is - it's probably road camber.

Another (easier) check is to loosen the front axle pinch bolts and the mudguard brace. Also loosen off the steering stem nut on the top of the handlebars. Slacken - but don't loosen! - the fork yoke pinch bolts. You just want to ease these off being fully tight but not loosen them to the point where the fork will drop through when you grab the brake.

Now grab the front brake and bounce the bike hard against it a few times. If there's any misalignment in the front forks area, that should fix it. Don't be surprised if you hear a sudden bang - that will be the fork sliders realigning themselves. Tighten the fork yoke pinch bolts first, followed by the axle pinch bolts.

I do this on every new build to make sure the front end is where it should be.
Thanks Dai, will do! (probably i ll go with the second option) I' ll get back to you at weekend for more details Smile


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:22 am

RicK G

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Once you know the alignment is right then you can then assume that camber in the road is the main cause. Make sure the shim is in the rear wheel assembly that is between the wheel and drive as this can cause a slight right drag if it's missing. It has happened to me even in Australia where the camber is to the left, it was still wanting to go right.


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am

George_Pap

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@RicK G wrote:Once you know the alignment is right then you can then assume that camber in the road is the main cause. Make sure the shim is in the rear wheel assembly that is between the wheel and drive as this can cause a slight right drag if it's missing. It has happened to me even in Australia where the camber is to the left, it was still wanting to go right.

Shim's in place Rick for sure. I put it there last weekend after replacing the rear disc rotor. Probably is the road camber. Still learning my K so i m very observing. Bben through 32 bikes since my 17 but never a K one. Smile


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:44 am

RicK G

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I left the shim out on my K100 once and it really changed the character of the bike without really being bad at all but it just was not the same well behaved bike I had got to know so well.
I had worked on mainly Japanese bikes with 8 years at Honda Australia but when I got the K it was certainly a very different and an individual sort of machine which is probably why I developed a love of them and now I wouldn't have anything else.


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 9:18 am

George_Pap

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Exactly my feeling right now. From the very first minute on the K it felt like nothing ridden so far. Absolutely different taste. I feel noob in every aspect with this bike. But.. I has something that made me wanna ride again. Dreaming of long rides again after more than ten years off the saddles Smile

Sent from Topic'it App


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 10:51 am

thecableguy

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Now grab the front brake and bounce the bike hard against it a few times. If there's any misalignment in the front forks area, that should fix it.

...what Dai said. I had the same thing happening on Brun. That procedure fixed it completely.

Jim


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'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 11:45 am

BobT

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Shift your bum to the left and it will change. Bikes are not meant to be ridden with no hands.

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 11:59 am

thecableguy

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@BobT wrote:Shift your bum to the left and it will change. Bikes are not meant to be ridden with no hands.
True, but in my case my bum had to be hanging off the left side of the seat to make it track straight. I was also noticing uneven tread wear on the front tire as I was constantly correcting the steering going down the road.

It's not like I make a habit of stunt riding. I just want to have my bike track straight...

Jim


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'86 K100RT "Brunhilde"
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Dai

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Just as an edit to the 'bounce' procedure; a slightly 'safer' way to do it is to leave the top yoke bolts tightened up but slacken off the bottom yoke pinch bolts completely. Bouncing the brakes will:

1. Allow the bottom yoke to rotate into line with the top yoke
2. Allow the stanchions to line up with each other
2. Allow the sliders to centralise on the stanchions.

The last flying brick I did let out an enormous bang! as the sliders centralised on the stanchions.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:08 pm

RicK G

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Make sure the bolts on the axle are loose or the suspension might just stay down and jam. George I doubt very much this is your problem as it is more associated with hard suspension and very poor handling and even on occasion spongy brakes because the discs push the caliper pistons back too far.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 2:57 am

George_Pap

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Ok, lets make it a task for dummies ( like me )

step 1: I'm loosening the two bolts in the back side of each fork boot at the bottom
step 2: I' m loosening almost free the two bolts at the bottom yoke ( triple clamp ) ( NOT THE UPPER YOKE )
step 3: I' m loosening the stem bolts. This is a bit unclear to me. We ' re referring to the 4 bolts that hold the handlebar onto the stem? Or the one main big hex(?) of the stem itself? That keeps the front stem bearings tight to the bike frame?


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 7:24 am

Dai

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The big hex one. It just needs to be slackened off, not made very loose. Ideally, you want it to the point where you can only just feel play in the front end when you rock the forks backwards and forwards (so you'll need something under the engine at this point to lift the front end off the floor). When you come to re-tighten it, you'll need to do the 'tap test'; get all the play out of the bearings and then tap one end of the handlebars. Assuming that nothing is blocking the movement, the whole front end should swing gently round. Try the other way. If it doesn't swing the whole way check that nothing is preventing movement. If the cables are getting in the way, I grip the handlebar end between finger and thumb and turn the assembly gently right through to the lockstops. What you are feeling for is the headstock bearings being too tight and preventing free movement.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 10:21 am

duck

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Over the years this topic has been beaten to death many times. It's the oil thread of K bikes.

In a nutshell: "They all do that."

(I've owned something like 20 twenty of them and every single one has pulled to the right.)

Just forget about it and ride.

JM02


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 10:41 am

RicK G

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I haven't owned that many Ks but all my bikes pull slightly to the left because of the camber, that's what happens just like Duck said.
I have over the years had people tell me that they fix the problem on a chain drive by miss aligning the rear wheel, OK that does make them ride neutral but as soon as you get onto the opposite camber as on a 4 lane road where you are effectively riding on the right then the pull is worse and it will make for some bad tyre wear.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 4:08 pm

George_Pap

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Thank you all. I ll drive some more km on different kinds of terrains to evaluate the behaviour .
Tomorrow I m putting fairing together. Lower fairing was in the fixing - painting process till today .
Also disabled the auto retraction side stand function today by replacing the pivot bolt with a regular one without the pin at the end.
Getting of the bike feels much safer now.

Sent from Topic'it App


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K100RT (Early 1985 -nonABS)
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Fri May 04, 2018 6:10 pm

MartinW

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If you string line the track of the Brick you will also find that the track is actually offset. If you don't wish to go to the trouble of string lining, find a smooth flat concrete surface. Then spray the tyres with water and roll the bike forward in a straight line. You will find that the marks left on the concrete that rear is offset in relation to the front. I string lined mine when I first got it (21 years ago) and was alarmed, until a mate (ex BM tech) told me that the track is offset.
Regards Martin.


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21Back to top Go down    Re: Slight right without hands. on Sat May 05, 2018 1:41 am

duck

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I think Martin is on the right track here. (No pun intended. There's actually two puns in there. But who's counting?)

I don't know what the correct tech term is for it but my dad was raised as a wrench monkey (a.k.a. tool gofer) at my grandfather's tire shop back in the 1930s and 40s. His term for it was "crabbing" since we have a lot of crabs around here (Dungeness - very tasty) and it tends to move a vehicle to the side.

If I rode a K bike that rode "true" or pulled left then I'd wonder if the frame or forks were bent. (This is meant to be somewhat humorous sarcasm.)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

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