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1Back to top Go down    Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 4:27 am

Tesla13BMW

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Hi all

With the existing clutch cable outer sheaf cracked and rusty I purchased a replacement clutch cable from Munich Motorcycles in Perth, Australia (Part #6435250K).

I taped the new cable to the bottom of the old cable and proceeded to pull the old out and the new in. Simple cheers .

Set the adjuster at the clutch handle bar lever to give 75 mm of exposed inner cable at the clutch release lever.

The problem I see is the adjuster needs to be almost fully adjusted out to give the 75 mm. Once I adjust for the 4 mm of free play in the clutch lever pivot it is still about 25 mm between the clutch handle mount and the back of the adjuster i.e. of threaded section (not to the lock nut).

I can't understand other than the cable is wrong.

The issue is when you use the old to pull the new you can't compare them Crying or Very sad. I'll use a rope next time!

Does anyone have a new cable accessible that could measure the free cable length i.e. just the inner cable with no end ferrels included?

Much appreciated.

Cheers, Chris.


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Brisbane, Australia. '86 K100RS
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 7:09 am

Dai

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There's an adjuster in the back of the clutch arm - go in there armed with a 10mm and a 13mm spanner. Use that to set the 75mm exposed cable.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:17 am

RicK G

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The adjustment Dai says is the important one if that isn't right then it's all cocks up.


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:27 am

Chocolate

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Only a few activities make me experience my senses in a way motorcycle riding does, it is like swimming in the nude in a river.
K75 BA/1992 ABS, K75 BA/1991 noABS, Ducati, Mobylette M1/1973
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 9:23 am

Tesla13BMW

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Dai and RickG

Are you saying what Chocolate has posted is not correct or am I misinterpreting something?


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6Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 1:03 pm

Dai

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Probably the sequence on the drawing. It goes top-left, bottom-left, top-right. That should fix it.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 7:53 pm

Tesla13BMW

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Hi Dai

That is the order I thought it was and top left says the 75 mm measurement is created by using the adjuster screw at the clutch hand lever.

It seems the adjuster on the clutch release lever is only used to ensure the clutch release lever is making contact with the clutch pin when there is 75 mm of free cable. I guess this is to ensure the clutch release lever adjuster bolt is actuating "square" on the clutch pin.

And then the free play is created using the adjuster at the clutch hand lever.

However, thinking about this, what you said of using the clutch release lever to set the 75 mm essentially achieves the same thing, so long as the clutch hand lever adjuster is loose when the clutch release lever adjuster is set.

So all this comes back to what I thought was the initial problem of the exposed clutch cable being too long. I'll compare it over the weekend to what was in there and what is on the other bike, although they will have some stretch to them.

Cheers, Chris.


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Brisbane, Australia. '86 K100RS
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:18 pm

RicK G

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@Tesla13BMW wrote:Hi Dai

That is the order I thought it was and top left says the 75 mm measurement is created by using the adjuster screw at the clutch hand lever.

It seems the adjuster on the clutch release lever is only used to ensure the clutch release lever is making contact with the clutch pin when there is 75 mm of free cable. I guess this is to ensure the clutch release lever adjuster bolt is actuating "square" on the clutch pin.

And then the free play is created using the adjuster at the clutch hand lever.

However, thinking about this, what you said of using the clutch release lever to set the 75 mm essentially achieves the same thing, so long as the clutch hand lever adjuster is loose when the clutch release lever adjuster is set.

So all this comes back to what I thought was the initial problem of the exposed clutch cable being too long. I'll compare it over the weekend to what was in there and what is on the other bike, although they will have some stretch to them.

Cheers, Chris.
If you set the adjustment any other way than setting the 75mm by adjusting the actuating lever you run the risk of the rubber boot not sitting correctly and square over the spigot on the arm and therefore having oil leak from the boot.
If you have a new OEM cable you might get away with adjusting it at the hand lever. But it's your bike and rear tyre where the oil will leak.


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 8:43 pm

Tesla13BMW

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Point taken Rick G.

What either method relies on is that the cable procured has the right dimension of "thingy" that sticks out towards the clutch release lever from where the outer sheath is mounted into the clutch cable holder. Otherwise the 75 mm of free cable measurement is erroneous as it will be having no control of setting the position of the clutch release lever.

I am hoping this is correct on the Munich Cable and that the free cable length is also correct.


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Brisbane, Australia. '86 K100RS
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 03, 2018 9:15 pm

Dai

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As Rick says. The more I look at that BMW page the more I realise it's completely misleading if you've never done it before. The text is right and the pictures are right; they've just got the bloody text in the wrong place!


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Tue May 08, 2018 9:20 pm

Tesla13BMW

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So the cable procured from Munich was a Venhill cable as is sold by The BM Shop in Brisbane.



The collar that is tapered on the OEM and fits into a tapered hole where the cable mounts at the transmission end is square on the Venhill. And also the free cable length is different. So measuring to the widest point of the tapered section of the mount for the cable sheath is 151 mm on the OEM and to the square collar on the Venhill 159 mm. 12 mm different. So +8 mm for the Venhill!

At the other end there are also differences. With inner fully pulled towards the transmission, the ferrule to outer sheath gap is 2 mm on the Venhill while on the OEM it is 5 mm. So -3 mm for the Venhill.

So I used a measure of 80 mm and set up as per instructions. And this leaves the adjuster in a realistic position.

Interestingly Munich said "from experience I just set the handle bar adjuster at about 8 mm out".

Lesson learnt? Do not assume a company selling BMW parts is selling you a BMW part!

P.S. Strangely I could not find a reference to the cable that was fitted. BMW 3273 1 450 213 9.


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12Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 12:00 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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Chris Harris has a great video on U tube showing the method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBW4D2jDw2A

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 12:08 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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PM you with the Welder name and number

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 2:28 am

Tesla13BMW

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I have seen Chris's video which presents another method again of adjusting the clutch cable i.e. set 75 mm with the clutch handle adjuster and free play with the clutch release lever bolt.

All of them rely on the clutch cable being the same as the OEM which the Venhill is not.


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15Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 7:43 am

RicK G

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Set the 75mm by adjusting the bolt on the clutch actuation arm, If you do not do it that way there is a risk of the rubber boot not sealing properly.
Then take up any slack at the adjuster at the clutch lever on the handlebar.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 2:10 pm

Dai

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Also, if it's any greater than 75mm, the clutch arm won't pull in the correct distance and disengage the clutch completely.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 4:32 pm

Point-Seven-five

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@Dai wrote:Also, if it's any greater than 75mm, the clutch arm won't pull in the correct distance and disengage the clutch completely.
On the K75 the arm will hit the muffler and make an awful racket.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Thu May 10, 2018 8:29 pm

RicK G

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Yeah I've come across that as well I just pull it back to around 70mm and it seems to work OK


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sat May 12, 2018 3:49 am

K75cster

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Maybe the best thing all round would be to buy an after market adjuster for the lever and continue to have the clutch gearbox lever set correctly at 75mm from the gearbox and do all the extra adjusting up at the handlebar lever with a longer adjuster. There must be one out there that's 8mm longer in the thread. The gearbox lever needs to be correct the handlebar one can be longer or shorter to suit the cables anomalies.


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Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sat May 12, 2018 6:58 am

Tesla13BMW

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That is the issue. The 75mm is not from the gear box. It is from the end of the steel piece on the outer. When the cable dimensions are not the same you have no reference in space to measure 75 mm from.


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21Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sat May 12, 2018 7:18 am

K75cster

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I just had a look at my K75 and the cable is measureing at 75mm so that also makes it from the clutch pawl (the bit the cable end goes into) is 80mm from the flat of the gearbox measured from beside the raised bit where the cable goes in through, so the flat bit is equally flat right across the back of the box. All things being equal if you set yours up so the rule sits against the box and you measure down to the pawl, 80mm should be it. The rest must go up the front on the barlever


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Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sat May 12, 2018 7:32 am

K75cster

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Yep just remeasured it with my tape measure pressed up against the flat of the box and the pawl is 80mm to its end.


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Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sat May 12, 2018 7:47 am

Dai

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@K75cster wrote:Maybe the best thing all round would be to buy an after market adjuster for the lever
No chance. In best BMW style they use a M10x1.0 thread, whereas everybody else uses an M8x1.0 thread.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Installing a new clutch cable. on Sun May 13, 2018 12:54 am

Tesla13BMW

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Cheers K75cster

That is great information to enable me to double check the measurement.


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