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Neutral Light on Tue May 08, 2018 7:17 am
DBRMN

Platinum member

This is probably going to take me a bit to get my head round as I have no electrical knowledge, doesn't look too difficult but that might be me being naive lol
Already wired up full beam works a treat, do I need an indicator light if I have handle bar end indicators cause you can literally see them? I plan on wiring a check engine light as well, I have five possible warning lights.@Dai wrote:For the UK MOT all you need is:
1. A high-beam indicator
2. An indicator repeater; and only then if you can't see all four indicators at the same time.
What you'd be stupid not to have:
1. A neutral light
2. An oil pressure light (or if you're a Kawasaki: an oil level light. Never did get that one...)
So that covers just about all Britbikes from about 1960 onwards![]()
Sensible-to-have:
1. Anything that gives you an indication of parts of the engine e.g. the generator, fuel level warning (and only that because there's no reserve switch)
Icing on the cake:
1. Anything like the GPI.
But then again, some of the bikes I rode early in my career had no neutral light and no indicators from new. You soon learned where neutral was; or in the case of the Bridgestone rotary gearbox, not to go directly from top to first on a downchange (Rick?).
Wow this is some clever stuff! I'm definitely interested however it's probably going to be a month till I can focus on this as my EPQ ends in a month so I need to get the rear cowl down but after that I will most likely be in touch thanks you!@robmack wrote:Please see Gear Indicator Aftermarket Speedo and Other Circuits . You can get this four relay circuit from me for very cheap, which saves you the bother of building it. My price is about the same as your costs would be.
I'd fit an indicator repeater. I doubt most MOT testers are aware of that clause in the Construction And Use regulations.@DBRMN wrote:do I need an indicator light if I have handle bar end indicators cause you can literally see them? I plan on wiring a check engine light as well, I have five possible warning lights.
Already wired up, battery charging light and oil light, is there a way of testing them when your done thought?
Whats an Indicator Repeater? is that what makes it flash?@Dai wrote:I'd fit an indicator repeater. I doubt most MOT testers are aware of that clause in the Construction And Use regulations.@DBRMN wrote:do I need an indicator light if I have handle bar end indicators cause you can literally see them? I plan on wiring a check engine light as well, I have five possible warning lights.
Already wired up, battery charging light and oil light, is there a way of testing them when your done thought?
The oil light should work if you earth the end at the pressure switch. Battery light - you'll have to wait till start up and check whether it goes out.
Now, list here everything you've done; I want to check that you're not heading into SVA (Single Vehicle Authorisation) territory. That's a whole new ball of wool.
If I have bar end indicators do you think an indicator repeater is necessary as you can literally see when your indicating?@Dai wrote:The indicator repeater is the amber (sometimes green as on the K) light in the instrument panel that flashes in time with the indicators. Some bikes have two (one for each side, like the K) and some have only one. If you fit one for each side then you run the same coloured wire for that side to the repeater bulb and earth the other side of the repeater. On a K that's a blue/black wire for the right side and a blue/red wire for the left side. For a single repeater bulb, you would connect the K blue/black wire to one side of the bulb and the blue/red wire to the other side of the bulb. On the face of it that should not work because you appear to be feeding two positives to the indicator repeater. In operation, only one side gets 12 volts (the side that is flashing) and the other side earths through the non-flashing bulb filaments. If you're doing any form of physics, your tutor can give you the lowdown on the whys and wherefores of it working.
The oil pressure switch is the brown/green wire low down and under the oil and water pump assembly at the front of the bike. Chances are, if you try to pull the rubber cover off then everything will split. Trace it back up to the front right of the frame: IIRC it's the only 'single' connector in the wiring loom. Earth the end that disappears into the main wiring loom.
There's a list of 'points' for certain types of modification. Once you exceed a certain number of points, it becomes a completely new vehicle and has to be tested as such. Some mods are instant 'new machine'. If it requires an MSVA, when you have passed the MSVA test, only then can you get it MOT'd. These links should help:-
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/194159/MSVA_Guide.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/366046/msva-manual.pdf
I think you maybe in MSVA territory because you've modified the frame (seat loop). Best talk to a local MOT inspector or ring VOSA and have a chat with them. You really don't want to get into trouble with the law.
In theory, no, but as I said, I'm not sure how many MOT testers would be aware of that particular quirk in the C&U regs.@DBRMN wrote:If I have bar end indicators do you think an indicator repeater is necessary as you can literally see when your indicating?
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In terms of structural the hoop is the only thing I've changed and that's now welded on. All the other changes have been tiny little things like different headlight, custom seat, speedometer stuff like that. Thanks for that document I've been looking for that for ages I just didn't know what to search. See picture.
Ye I get you I might install a light then we'll see.@Dai wrote:In theory, no, but as I said, I'm not sure how many MOT testers would be aware of that particular quirk in the C&U regs.@DBRMN wrote:If I have bar end indicators do you think an indicator repeater is necessary as you can literally see when your indicating?
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In terms of structural the hoop is the only thing I've changed and that's now welded on. All the other changes have been tiny little things like different headlight, custom seat, speedometer stuff like that. Thanks for that document I've been looking for that for ages I just didn't know what to search. See picture.
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I think it does come under the MSVA because moving the seat hoop is a structural change (unlike just cutting off or welding on new brackets). That's why I advised talking to VOSA.
Yeah very important to think about thanks for your help. Do you know if tracks will let you ride a modified bike without it being insured if your underage? And if it does or doesn't have a MSVA or VOSA?@Dai wrote:Call them and get any confirmation by email. You may get told straight away not to worry. The real problem will come when you try to insure it. One of the questions you will be asked is 'have you made any mods to the bike?'; under that situation you will be in a position to quote chapter and verse:
Yes - it's been MSVA'd
Yes - VOSA said there is no need to MSVA and here's the proof.
If you don't comply with the absolute last letter of the insurance, the underwriters will wriggle out in the event of an accident. Remember: their loyalty is to their shareholders, not to you.
Terms and conditions might vary from track to track. Riding in a track day event without insurance doesn't seem like a good idea unless you have access to plenty of money to recover your bike and body from damage.@DBRMN wrote: Do you know if tracks will let you ride a modified bike without it being insured if your underage? And if it does or doesn't have a MSVA or VOSA?
Because I want to be able to ride it before I'm 21.
Point 17 is the relevant one. It's not just you - it's the other rider that you hit/hits you.@Laitch wrote:Anyway, here's one outfit's requirements. http://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/bike-track-days-terms-conditions/
Think I need to try and get myself an ACU license. Yeah true.@Laitch wrote:Terms and conditions might vary from track to track. Riding in a track day event without insurance doesn't seem like a good idea unless you have access to plenty of money to recover your bike and body from damage.@DBRMN wrote: Do you know if tracks will let you ride a modified bike without it being insured if your underage? And if it does or doesn't have a MSVA or VOSA?
Because I want to be able to ride it before I'm 21.
Anyway, here's one outfit's requirements. http://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/bike-track-days-terms-conditions/
Can you get track specific insurance even if your underage?@Dai wrote:Point 17 is the relevant one. It's not just you - it's the other rider that you hit/hits you.@Laitch wrote:Anyway, here's one outfit's requirements. http://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/bike-track-days-terms-conditions/
Items #6, #7, and #8 at Silverstone's site make it clear what ages and under which qualifications riders can use the track. Insurance is the rider's responsibility but it is not in the best interest of insurance companies to write policies for underage riders. Their risk of having to pay out is too high.@DBRMN wrote:Can you get track specific insurance even if your underage?@Dai wrote:Point 17 is the relevant one. It's not just you - it's the other rider that you hit/hits you.@Laitch wrote:Anyway, here's one outfit's requirements. http://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/bike-track-days-terms-conditions/
Mutually-assured destruction had its up-side back then. Those were the days.@Dai wrote:I lament the dearth of old airfields where we learned to ride. I had the luxury of a mile of dead-straight runway with huge sweeping taxiways back to the start... they used to launch B-17s from there.
Yeah fair enough trouble is I'm too excited lol@Laitch wrote:Items #6, #7, and #8 at Silverstone's site make it clear what ages and under which qualifications riders can use the track. Insurance is the rider's responsibility but it is not in the best interest of insurance companies to write policies for underage riders. Their risk of having to pay out is too high.
Be patient so you can at least reach the qualifying age.
Ye I've heard of strips of tarmac near me I need to explore that idea!@Dai wrote:I lament the dearth of old airfields where we learned to ride. I had the luxury of a mile of dead-straight runway with huge sweeping taxiways back to the start... they used to launch B-17s from there. Most old airfields are now nothing but housing estates.
An ACU licence is a good idea but as ever, read the small print very carefully. I'm completely out of touch with the current ACU requirements.
Exactly what I've want to do ahaha@Dai wrote:Here's the one I learned on:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0065381,-1.7055839,1218m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Definately not much left of it. Back then (1970s) it was still a Class 3 airfield i.e. open for use at your own risk, but no control tower etc.. The north side of the airfield is Bradley Woods where I fell out of more trees than enough. North of Bradley Woods on the A517 is where I got a Garelli Rekord moped up to an indicated 68mph down Shepherd's Hill... bollox, I'm getting old.
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