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1Back to top Go down    Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:42 pm

DBRMN

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Hey guys its been a while since I've started my bike and was wondering if anyone could link me to an article or thread on a extensive list to go through if it doesn't start.

Also my clutch is immensely heavy and I don't mean I'm weak I mean two hands and a foot can't move it, anyone know what thats about.

And lastly my throttle has always been not the snappiest is there anyway to make it return faster and just feel easier as all I can find is articles about sticky throttles.

Can't wait to fire it up:


Thanks
DBRMN

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:48 pm

DBRMN

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@DBRMN wrote:Hey guys its been a while since I've started my bike and was wondering if anyone could link me to an article or thread on a extensive list to go through if it doesn't start.

Also my clutch is immensely heavy and I don't mean I'm weak I mean two hands and a foot can't move it, anyone know what thats about.

And lastly my throttle has always been not the snappiest is there anyway to make it return faster and just feel easier as all I can find is articles about sticky throttles.

Can't wait to fire it up:


Thanks
DBRMN

Oh and forgot does anyone know what this is or what it does?:


    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:50 pm

duck

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1 - Make sure there's gas in the tank. Fuel tank wiring hooked up. L-Jetronic hooked up.

2 - Unless you changed the routing and it has some new bends in it then the clutch cable may just be old.

3 - Common issue with Ks. I remove all of the grease from the teeth where the throttle grip turns the cam that pulls the throttle cable and use silicone spray lubricant instead.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:51 pm

duck

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Looks like a hookup for a battery tender.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:58 pm

Dai

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+1. There was on one LFB as well.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:17 pm

DBRMN

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@duck wrote:1 - Make sure there's gas in the tank. Fuel tank wiring hooked up. L-Jetronic hooked up.

2 - Unless you changed the routing and it has some new bends in it then the clutch cable may just be old.

3 - Common issue with Ks. I remove all of the grease from the teeth where the throttle grip turns the cam that pulls the throttle cable and use silicone spray lubricant instead.
1- In terms of like say I press the start button and nothing happens whats the diagnosis for that etc..

2 - Oh that might be it ought to replace is anyway though

3 - Interesting I'll try that!

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:18 pm

DBRMN

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@duck wrote:Looks like a hookup for a battery tender.

Ye because it was directly wired to the battery, do you think its necessary?

    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:18 pm

DBRMN

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@Dai wrote:+1. There was on one LFB as well.
Whats a LFB?

    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:00 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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@DBRMN wrote:Hey guys its been a while since I've started my bike and was wondering if anyone could link me to an article or thread on a extensive list to go through if it doesn't start.

Also my clutch is immensely heavy and I don't mean I'm weak I mean two hands and a foot can't move it, anyone know what thats about.

And lastly my throttle has always been not the snappiest is there anyway to make it return faster and just feel easier as all I can find is articles about sticky throttles.

Can't wait to fire it up:
I'd say take it one step at a time...

Your K has clearly been modded, so many things may not be standard e.g. the original instrument cluster is gone, so some starting interlocks may have been over-ridden. This will make it difficult for other forum members to make an accurate diagnosis of any problems that you may encounter...unless they were the ones that did the mods or recognise what has been done.

STEP 1 - see if she will run

  • As Duck says, check fuel tank is full (of fresh petrol) - if old fuel was left in the tank then, depending how long she's been standing, you may have all sorts of issues with fuel pump/fuel lines/injectors and loads of gunk in the tank. If you do have old fuel/gunk in the tank...DO NOT try and start the bike - get rid of it first and clean out the tank, otherwise you will risk transferring that gunk around the whole fuel system.



  • Check the battery is fully charged - trying to start with a depleted battery may lead to the start relay welding on, which is never good.
  • Check bike is in NEUTRAL (especially with your stiff clutch)
  • Fast Idle (choke) on, check the kill switch is in the centre position ....press the start button.


Does the starter turn vigorously?

  • If not, go and check your electrical connections (earth points, ignition switch, battery and starter connections).
  • If it does spin, the bike should fire up - standby for a little smoke.


If the bike doesn't fire up, when you release the starter button, do you hear the whine of the fuel pump for a couple of seconds?

  • If not, check your fuel pump electrical connection - get some contact cleaner in there and check the condition of the pins.
  • If yes, then you may have a problem with your sprag clutch not allowing the starter to engage the engine properly (several posts on sprag clutch issues) or fuel/ignition issues (injectors, EFI, hall sensors, fuel pressure regulator, spark plugs etc.).


Once you get the engine running...then move onto the next step

STEP 2 Investigate Clutch - it should not be as stiff as you describe
Trying to operate the clutch when very stiff is both tiring and may considerably shorten the life of the clutch cable...it will stretch and then individual strands will break until the load is too great and the cable will part.



  • Remove pivot pin from clutch lever - these can cause stiffness if heavily oxidised. Clean up with some fine emery/Wet& dry paper and a smear of grease.
  • While the lever is removed - disconnect the clutch cable from the gearbox actuating lever.
  • Pull the cable in both directions - from the handle bar and gearbox ends. Inspect the wire of the cable for fraying etc. You should be able to move the cable easily - if it doesn't move freely, consider replacing the clutch cable. It may have been trapped and crimped
  • If the cable is good, refit the clutch lever and reconnect cable at both ends. Any improvement?
  • If still stiff, the problem may lie with the clutch actuating arm needle bearings - these often do not have grease nipples fitted and can get very stiff to operate as the original grease bakes hard and road crap/corrosion affects the pivot pin. Bit of a PITA to get this arm off and replace the needle bearings (lots of posts on that too)


STEP 3 Investigate the Throttle
No rush to do this until you know the engine runs and the clutch is working lightly.

  • Do the checks Duck recommends
  • With the cable disconnected - try pulling it - do you get free movement at the throttle body end? If not, the cable could be damaged/crimped and may need changing.
  • Take the throttle twist grip off the handle bar (remove end weight if fitted) - you may find that there is a layer of corrosion on the handle bar underneath the throttle. It doesn't take much corrosion to stop the throttle snapping back as it should. Clean any corrosion with emery/wet&dry paper and re-preserve (paint). A light application of grease on the bar will help.
  • Check you don't have the throttle friction screw fitted. There is no problem having this screw fitted - it's designed to hold the throttle in a set position (crude cruise control) but obviously does not make for a snappy throttle. If fitted, wind it out a little until you are happy with the snap of the throttle. Even with it in use, you shouldn't need much force to shut the throttle.


Anyway - just a few thoughts and a starter for 10.

BTW, LFB = Low Flying Brick (the name for Dai's bike)


__________________________________________________

Paul

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurancewrite-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red) (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike). June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:11 pm

DBRMN

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@Born Again Eccentric wrote:
@DBRMN wrote:Hey guys its been a while since I've started my bike and was wondering if anyone could link me to an article or thread on a extensive list to go through if it doesn't start.

Also my clutch is immensely heavy and I don't mean I'm weak I mean two hands and a foot can't move it, anyone know what thats about.

And lastly my throttle has always been not the snappiest is there anyway to make it return faster and just feel easier as all I can find is articles about sticky throttles.

Can't wait to fire it up:
I'd say take it one step at a time...

Your K has clearly been modded, so many things may not be standard e.g. the original instrument cluster is gone, so some starting interlocks may have been over-ridden. This will make it difficult for other forum members to make an accurate diagnosis of any problems that you may encounter...unless they were the ones that did the mods or recognise what has been done.

STEP 1 - see if she will run

  • As Duck says, check fuel tank is full (of fresh petrol) - if old fuel was left in the tank then, depending how long she's been standing, you may have all sorts of issues with fuel pump/fuel lines/injectors and loads of gunk in the tank. If you do have old fuel/gunk in the tank...DO NOT try and start the bike - get rid of it first and clean out the tank, otherwise you will risk transferring that gunk around the whole fuel system.



  • Check the battery is fully charged - trying to start with a depleted battery may lead to the start relay welding on, which is never good.
  • Check bike is in NEUTRAL (especially with your stiff clutch)
  • Fast Idle (choke) on, check the kill switch is in the centre position ....press the start button.


Does the starter turn vigorously?

  • If not, go and check your electrical connections (earth points, ignition switch, battery and starter connections).
  • If it does spin, the bike should fire up - standby for a little smoke.


If the bike doesn't fire up, when you release the starter button, do you hear the whine of the fuel pump for a couple of seconds?

  • If not, check your fuel pump electrical connection - get some contact cleaner in there and check the condition of the pins.
  • If yes, then you may have a problem with your sprag clutch not allowing the starter to engage the engine properly (several posts on sprag clutch issues) or fuel/ignition issues (injectors, EFI, hall sensors, fuel pressure regulator, spark plugs etc.).


Once you get the engine running...then move onto the next step

STEP 2 Investigate Clutch - it should not be as stiff as you describe
Trying to operate the clutch when very stiff is both tiring and may considerably shorten the life of the clutch cable...it will stretch and then individual strands will break until the load is too great and the cable will part.



  • Remove pivot pin from clutch lever - these can cause stiffness if heavily oxidised. Clean up with some fine emery/Wet& dry paper and a smear of grease.
  • While the lever is removed - disconnect the clutch cable from the gearbox actuating lever.
  • Pull the cable in both directions - from the handle bar and gearbox ends. Inspect the wire of the cable for fraying etc. You should be able to move the cable easily - if it doesn't move freely, consider replacing the clutch cable. It may have been trapped and crimped
  • If the cable is good, refit the clutch lever and reconnect cable at both ends. Any improvement?
  • If still stiff, the problem may lie with the clutch actuating arm needle bearings - these often do not have grease nipples fitted and can get very stiff to operate as the original grease bakes hard and road crap/corrosion affects the pivot pin. Bit of a PITA to get this arm off and replace the needle bearings (lots of posts on that too)


STEP 3 Investigate the Throttle
No rush to do this until you know the engine runs and the clutch is working lightly.

  • Do the checks Duck recommends
  • With the cable disconnected - try pulling it - do you get free movement at the throttle body end? If not, the cable could be damaged/crimped and may need changing.
  • Take the throttle twist grip off the handle bar (remove end weight if fitted) - you may find that there is a layer of corrosion on the handle bar underneath the throttle. It doesn't take much corrosion to stop the throttle snapping back as it should. Clean any corrosion with emery/wet&dry paper and re-preserve (paint). A light application of grease on the bar will help.
  • Check you don't have the throttle friction screw fitted. There is no problem having this screw fitted - it's designed to hold the throttle in a set position (crude cruise control) but obviously does not make for a snappy throttle. If fitted, wind it out a little until you are happy with the snap of the throttle. Even with it in use, you shouldn't need much force to shut the throttle.


Anyway - just a few thoughts and a starter for 10.

BTW, LFB = Low Flying Brick (the name for Dai's bike)
Honestly wow! This is amazing exactly what I needed, I'm going to print this off lol!. You mention mods, yes I changed the instrument cluster to the Motoscope Mini, what are the starter interlocks and can I buy pass them?

I also removed a alarm that was fitted to the bike, I still don't know if it was stock or not I think not however I simply unplugged it which scares me that it might have been linked to an immobiliser how can you check for such a device especially if its a aftermarket mod?

Step 1:
Could you go into more detail about checking the earth points, ignition switch, battery and starter connections?
Where is the fuel pump electrical connector?

Step 2:
Don't have any questions just need to try it thank you so much for the detail!

Step 3:
Where would you find the friction screw?

I just want to thank you again as this is perfect and so helpful!!

    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:33 pm

duck

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Life time member
Life time member
If the stock cluster is gone then pulling in the clutch should get power to the start button.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:58 am

DBRMN

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Silver member
@duck wrote:If the stock cluster is gone then pulling in the clutch should get power to the start button.
Okay perfect thank you

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:01 am

MartinW

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Fitting a grease nipple to the clutch arm helps, it stops the ingress of water and road crap. For the last twenty years I have been lubricating all my cables with a PTFE lubricant called Triflo. Triflo or a PTFE lubricant is available from bicycle shops. Do not use WD40 or its like which is a water displacement fluid and it can degrade the Teflon liner. Lube all the cable ends and pivots with a light grease. I am still running all my OEM 25 year old cables.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:29 am

Born Again Eccentric

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@DBRMN wrote:You mention mods, yes I changed the instrument cluster to the Motoscope Mini, what are the starter interlocks and can I buy pass them?

I also removed a alarm that was fitted to the bike, I still don't know if it was stock or not I think not however I simply unplugged it which scares me that it might have been linked to an immobiliser how can you check for such a device especially if its a aftermarket mod?

Step 1:
Could you go into more detail about checking the earth points, ignition switch, battery and starter connections?
Where is the fuel pump electrical connector?

Step 2:
Don't have any questions just need to try it thank you so much for the detail!

Step 3:
Where would you find the friction screw?

I just want to thank you again as this is perfect and so helpful!!
Interlocks - as Duck says - pulling in the clutch should get around the lack of OEM instrument cluster one...providing the clutch position switch is working (clutch and front brake switches are the same) - easy to check by disconnecting from the lever and proving that the plunger moves freely (the plunger is fairly soft plastic and can bend/stick). New ones readily available from the usual UK BMW online outlets.


Alarm - I have no experience of having an alarm fitted - however, I suspect that, providing it was plugged in to the OEM accessory socket (in box under fuel tank with all the relays etc), then simply unplugging and removing it should be all that is needed.

Step 1 - have look at the links in the centre of the portal page, especially the EFI/Ignition one - lots of detail in there about electrical stuff and where to find it.

The main earth point is under the fuel tank (bunch of brown wires that are bolted to the frame) - always worth removing the bolt and cleaning up those connectors. There are several posts on fixing dodgy ignition switches on the forum - use the search function to find them. However, don't assume that something is defective before you have eliminated other options first - conduct fault finding logically - it is often the obvious things that present the problem and not the failure of a more major component. For example it would be unnecessary and costly to replace the ignition switch, starter motor and battery if you then found that the problem was a defective clutch switch or the emergency kill switch was off-centre. Assume that things are working until your fault finding provides evidence that they are not. Until you have clear evidence pointing to a particular component, avoid the temptation to dismantle something (e.g. the starter switch) to see if you can see any reason why it might not be working - more often than not (especially with ageing plastic components) you will end up breaking it (or chasing small springs and ball bearings across your workshop floor) and then have to fix/replace it. Very annoying if it wasn't actually defective in the first place!

Fuel pump connector is (usually) a 4 pin plug/socket at the rear right of the fuel tank. If not plugged in (or pins have worn and are not making a good electrical contact), pressing the starter will result in lots of starter running noise but the engine won't fire (because the fuel pump doesn't have any power and therefore the engine has no fuel). I confess to forgetting to reconnect this plug on the odd occasion after having had the fuel tank off and then wondering why the bike wouldn't start!


Step 3 - throttle friction screw is located at the front and underneath the throttle grip.


Hope this helps.



Last edited by Born Again Eccentric on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added alarm comment)


__________________________________________________

Paul

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurancewrite-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red) (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike). June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:06 pm

DBRMN

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Silver member
Silver member
@Born Again Eccentric wrote:
@DBRMN wrote:You mention mods, yes I changed the instrument cluster to the Motoscope Mini, what are the starter interlocks and can I buy pass them?

I also removed a alarm that was fitted to the bike, I still don't know if it was stock or not I think not however I simply unplugged it which scares me that it might have been linked to an immobiliser how can you check for such a device especially if its a aftermarket mod?

Step 1:
Could you go into more detail about checking the earth points, ignition switch, battery and starter connections?
Where is the fuel pump electrical connector?

Step 2:
Don't have any questions just need to try it thank you so much for the detail!

Step 3:
Where would you find the friction screw?

I just want to thank you again as this is perfect and so helpful!!
Interlocks - as Duck says - pulling in the clutch should get around the lack of OEM instrument cluster one...providing the clutch position switch is working (clutch and front brake switches are the same) - easy to check by disconnecting from the lever and proving that the plunger moves freely (the plunger is fairly soft plastic and can bend/stick). New ones readily available from the usual UK BMW online outlets.


Alarm - I have no experience of having an alarm fitted - however, I suspect that, providing it was plugged in to the OEM accessory socket (in box under fuel tank with all the relays etc), then simply unplugging and removing it should be all that is needed.

Step 1 - have look at the links in the centre of the portal page, especially the EFI/Ignition one - lots of detail in there about electrical stuff and where to find it.

The main earth point is under the fuel tank (bunch of brown wires that are bolted to the frame) - always worth removing the bolt and cleaning up those connectors. There are several posts on fixing dodgy ignition switches on the forum - use the search function to find them. However, don't assume that something is defective before you have eliminated other options first - conduct fault finding logically - it is often the obvious things that present the problem and not the failure of a more major component. For example it would be unnecessary and costly to replace the ignition switch, starter motor and battery if you then found that the problem was a defective clutch switch or the emergency kill switch was off-centre. Assume that things are working until your fault finding provides evidence that they are not. Until you have clear evidence pointing to a particular component, avoid the temptation to dismantle something (e.g. the starter switch) to see if you can see any reason why it might not be working - more often than not (especially with ageing plastic components) you will end up breaking it (or chasing small springs and ball bearings across your workshop floor) and then have to fix/replace it. Very annoying if it wasn't actually defective in the first place!

Fuel pump connector is (usually) a 4 pin plug/socket at the rear right of the fuel tank. If not plugged in (or pins have worn and are not making a good electrical contact), pressing the starter will result in lots of starter running noise but the engine won't fire (because the fuel pump doesn't have any power and therefore the engine has no fuel). I confess to forgetting to reconnect this plug on the odd occasion after having had the fuel tank off and then wondering why the bike wouldn't start!


Step 3 - throttle friction screw is located at the front and underneath the throttle grip.


Hope this helps.

I funnily managed to fix the clutch problem though I though it was catching i simply just hadn't realised that the side stand would physically block the clutch level which now I'm writing it makes me feel incredibly stupid but I definitely do think I need to replace the clutch cable anyway.

In terms of alarm I had a little experiment today as I thought like you simply unplug it all and it will be fine, however it wasn't, without realising it I had caused the speedometer to not get power. This confused me so much as the indicators still worked but the speedo didn't, long story short plugged alarm back in it worked again. This makes me think removing it would be a much bigger job. I had a chat with my electronics teacher and he said it would definitely be possible but is most likely incredibly difficult to remove.

I had a little check today to see if the bike would turn over, since I'd fixed the clutch. Did all my pre-flight checks and pressed start and it did in fact turn over, without petrol in. Which mad me thrilled, so tomorrow I plan on firing the old girl up and seeing if it idles. But it's definitely very promising, so hopefully I won't need your checks but they are incredibly useful for future and the most recent detail you gave is brilliant general knowledge. My main fear came from me just checking quickly a couple of weeks ago and bike made a click then nothing and every bad possibility has been brewing ever since but I think it was just the battery was dead. Knowing me though even after you've pointed it out i'm still going to forget to plug the tank in!

Thanks for the pictures I'll investigate mine tomorrow.

One final issue that arises today however was as I told you I turned the bike over, but before that I decided to plug the ABS unit back in just in case it was required for the bike to start. However I plugged it in turned the bike on and the relay box just began to click once a second, I unplugged the ABS and it stopped. Do you know what this is? I have removed the ABS switch on the dash board and the light from the instrument panel.

Thanks again for all your help
DBRMN

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:07 pm

DBRMN

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@MartinW wrote:Fitting a grease nipple to the clutch arm helps, it stops the ingress of water and road crap. For the last twenty years I have been lubricating all my cables with a PTFE lubricant called Triflo. Triflo or a PTFE lubricant is available from bicycle shops. Do not use WD40 or its like which is a water displacement fluid and it can degrade the Teflon liner. Lube all the cable ends and pivots with a light grease. I am still running all my OEM 25 year old cables.
Regards Martin.
Sounds good I need to get myself some thank you!

    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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@DBRMN wrote:
@Born Again Eccentric wrote:However, don't assume that something is defective before you have eliminated other options first - conduct fault finding logically - it is often the obvious things that present the problem and not the failure of a more major component.

I funnily managed to fix the clutch problem though I though it was catching i simply just hadn't realised that the side stand would physically block the clutch level which now I'm writing it makes me feel incredibly stupid but I definitely do think I need to replace the clutch cable anyway.

In terms of alarm I had a little experiment today as I thought like you simply unplug it all and it will be fine, however it wasn't, without realising it I had caused the speedometer to not get power. This confused me so much as the indicators still worked but the speedo didn't, long story short plugged alarm back in it worked again. This makes me think removing it would be a much bigger job. I had a chat with my electronics teacher and he said it would definitely be possible but is most likely incredibly difficult to remove...

...I had a little check today to see if the bike would turn over, since I'd fixed the clutch. Did all my pre-flight checks and pressed start and it did in fact turn over, without petrol in. Which mad me thrilled, so tomorrow I plan on firing the old girl up and seeing if it idles. But it's definitely very promising...

One final issue that arises today however was as I told you I turned the bike over, but before that I decided to plug the ABS unit back in just in case it was required for the bike to start. However I plugged it in turned the bike on and the relay box just began to click once a second, I unplugged the ABS and it stopped. Do you know what this is? I have removed the ABS switch on the dash board and the light from the instrument panel.
Yay - good new - like I said..often it is the simplest things. I didn't think of the side stand retract mechanism because I have disconnected it on both my bikes. I didn't see the need for additional load on the clutch cable just to put the side stand up. Of course, with the weight of the bike on the side stand and the retract mechanism attached, the clutch would be very heavy to operate and, if you did (without being on the bike), it would produce a most undesirable lie down. No need to feel stupid at all - we all forget somethings and learn other things about our bikes all the time and asking questions is definitely a better option than doing damage. Using brute force and ignorance and forcing the clutch, with the bike on the side stand, now that would be leaving you feeling a whole lot stupider.

Alarm - the auxiliary socket may have been used as a switched power source for your speedo. I know nothing about the aftermarket speedo you have fitted, but I do use that auxiliary socket to power some after market accessories (e.g. GPS). You need to look at the wiring and work out what is part of the alarm circuit and what else is tapped into it for power.

Excellent news on the bike turning over - get some gas in that tank and fire her up. Good luck.

ABS: This is not required to start the bike at all (quite good for slowing down quickly without locking up either wheel though!!). Normally, when you switch on the ignition (with the original instrument cluster), you get the ABS light and Brake monitoring light (red light) come on. The ABS light flashes and you get a steady light on the brake monitoring light. The clicking you hear is the ABS relay (under the fuel tank). Operating the front and rear brakes will clear the bulb monitoring unit logic and cause the brake monitoring light to flash in unison with the ABS light. Both these light will continue to flash until the bike goes more than 2.5mph when all lights go out signifying that the ABS system is fully functional, or you press the ABS switch which will stop the relay clicking and give steady lights on the cluster (the ABS system will not be in operation) - after 10 minutes, the lights will start flashing again and need another press of the switch.

Any error codes in the ABS brain (black box in the duck tail) will prevent the ABS system from operating - these need to be individually cleared (once the fault condition has been cleared) - a battery at low volts is a very common cause of an ABS fault code (the fault remains even after the battery is fully charged). For this reason a lot of people disconnect the ABS system - either by completely stripping it out (heavy modulators, brain and all) or just by removing the ABS light relay which stops the annoying flashing and clicking.

It sounds like you have disabled the ABS system already - so the ABS light relay will be redundant. Judging by your picture, you haven't removed the whole system (ABS modulators are still in place and the cabling to the brain looks like it is dangling around your foot pegs, but I suspect that some more of this may be going...?

Have a look at this post - the pics show where the ABS relay is located.
http://www.k100-forum.com/t9507-what-s-the-blue-relay-for#112478
Removing this relay has no impact on the starting or running of the bike.

Don't forget your fuel cap...before you fuel up and try to start her. No prizes for turning your project and the school into a fireball! Make sure it goes on the right way round too (hinge to rear) - important for the water drain holes.

Fingers crossed...but standby for more issues (perils of taking a good German design and slimming it down cafe style).


__________________________________________________

Paul

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurancewrite-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red) (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike). June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:48 pm

DBRMN

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@Born Again Eccentric wrote:
@DBRMN wrote:
@Born Again Eccentric wrote:However, don't assume that something is defective before you have eliminated other options first - conduct fault finding logically - it is often the obvious things that present the problem and not the failure of a more major component.

I funnily managed to fix the clutch problem though I though it was catching i simply just hadn't realised that the side stand would physically block the clutch level which now I'm writing it makes me feel incredibly stupid but I definitely do think I need to replace the clutch cable anyway.

In terms of alarm I had a little experiment today as I thought like you simply unplug it all and it will be fine, however it wasn't, without realising it I had caused the speedometer to not get power. This confused me so much as the indicators still worked but the speedo didn't, long story short plugged alarm back in it worked again. This makes me think removing it would be a much bigger job. I had a chat with my electronics teacher and he said it would definitely be possible but is most likely incredibly difficult to remove...

...I had a little check today to see if the bike would turn over, since I'd fixed the clutch. Did all my pre-flight checks and pressed start and it did in fact turn over, without petrol in. Which mad me thrilled, so tomorrow I plan on firing the old girl up and seeing if it idles. But it's definitely very promising...

One final issue that arises today however was as I told you I turned the bike over, but before that I decided to plug the ABS unit back in just in case it was required for the bike to start. However I plugged it in turned the bike on and the relay box just began to click once a second, I unplugged the ABS and it stopped. Do you know what this is? I have removed the ABS switch on the dash board and the light from the instrument panel.
Yay - good new - like I said..often it is the simplest things. I didn't think of the side stand retract mechanism because I have disconnected it on both my bikes. I didn't see the need for additional load on the clutch cable just to put the side stand up. Of course, with the weight of the bike on the side stand and the retract mechanism attached, the clutch would be very heavy to operate and, if you did (without being on the bike), it would produce a most undesirable lie down. No need to feel stupid at all - we all forget somethings and learn other things about our bikes all the time and asking questions is definitely a better option than doing damage. Using brute force and ignorance and forcing the clutch, with the bike on the side stand, now that would be leaving you feeling a whole lot stupider.

Alarm - the auxiliary socket may have been used as a switched power source for your speedo. I know nothing about the aftermarket speedo you have fitted, but I do use that auxiliary socket to power some after market accessories (e.g. GPS). You need to look at the wiring and work out what is part of the alarm circuit and what else is tapped into it for power.

Excellent news on the bike turning over - get some gas in that tank and fire her up. Good luck.

ABS: This is not required to start the bike at all (quite good for slowing down quickly without locking up either wheel though!!). Normally, when you switch on the ignition (with the original instrument cluster), you get the ABS light and Brake monitoring light (red light) come on. The ABS light flashes and you get a steady light on the brake monitoring light. The clicking you hear is the ABS relay (under the fuel tank). Operating the front and rear brakes will clear the bulb monitoring unit logic and cause the brake monitoring light to flash in unison with the ABS light. Both these light will continue to flash until the bike goes more than 2.5mph when all lights go out signifying that the ABS system is fully functional, or you press the ABS switch which will stop the relay clicking and give steady lights on the cluster (the ABS system will not be in operation) - after 10 minutes, the lights will start flashing again and need another press of the switch.

Any error codes in the ABS brain (black box in the duck tail) will prevent the ABS system from operating - these need to be individually cleared (once the fault condition has been cleared) - a battery at low volts is a very common cause of an ABS fault code (the fault remains even after the battery is fully charged). For this reason a lot of people disconnect the ABS system - either by completely stripping it out (heavy modulators, brain and all) or just by removing the ABS light relay which stops the annoying flashing and clicking.

It sounds like you have disabled the ABS system already - so the ABS light relay will be redundant. Judging by your picture, you haven't removed the whole system (ABS modulators are still in place and the cabling to the brain looks like it is dangling around your foot pegs, but I suspect that some more of this may be going...?

Have a look at this post - the pics show where the ABS relay is located.
http://www.k100-forum.com/t9507-what-s-the-blue-relay-for#112478
Removing this relay has no impact on the starting or running of the bike.

Don't forget your fuel cap...before you fuel up and try to start her. No prizes for turning your project and the school into a fireball! Make sure it goes on the right way round too (hinge to rear) - important for the water drain holes.

Fingers crossed...but standby for more issues (perils of taking a good German design and slimming it down cafe style).
Ye I found the stopper for the clutch and took me 30 seconds to realise the problem lol.

Alarm - what confuses me though is that even when the alarm unit is fully unplugged (i.e getting no power) it still manages to effect my speedometer. I think it might be a switch that is closed when there is current like an electromagnet and when there is no current (alarm disconnected) the switch opens. Thoughts? Thats just how I would do it if I was making an immobiliser.

ABS - thank god I've got a couple of warning lights on my dashboard I'm going to wire this bulb up. I remember the guy who sold it to me described something similar but implied it was a fault in the system that was fine when you got moving, maybe I miss understood him. Luckily the ABS has been disconnected from the start of my build so hasn't suffered any depleted batteries. I know it looks bad but no I intent to keep the whole system I just need to plug the unit back in and mount it somewhere. The loose wire was simply for the photoshootlol!. If wiring the relay unit to a lamp proves too complicated I'll just remove it.

Fuel cap, I'm going to use the stock one but I definitely need to buy a new one because two of the mounting screws turn freely in their threads. I could rethread the holes slightly bigger but I hate the OEM one and found a beautiful one online:

Thanks a lot for your reply
DBRMN

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Dai

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The ABS lights should flash until you exceed 10mph. Somebody correct my speed guess please Laughing


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:30 pm

Laitch

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@Dai wrote: Somebody correct my speed guess please Laughing
Stops flashing at 2.5 mph according to the K75 and K1100 rider's manuals. :BW: Of course, BAE cited that speed back in post #17, so consider my bow brief core-conditioning exercise.



Last edited by Laitch on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:36 am

DBRMN

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@Laitch wrote:
@Dai wrote: Somebody correct my speed guess please Laughing
Stops flashing at 2.5 mph according to the K75 and K1100 rider's manuals. :BW:
Okay perfect I'm going to try and wire that up today!

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:19 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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@DBRMN wrote:
... Luckily the ABS has been disconnected from the start of my build so hasn't suffered any depleted batteries...
The ABS system takes all power from the bike main battery - if that battery is run flat, then it throws up a error in the ABS brain. This could have happened with the previous owner...but the error stays locked in the brain until you physically clear it. I don't think there are any internal batteries in the brain. Loads of posts on how to clear the error codes, but it does take patience sometimes.

Most cafe hacks get rid of the ABS altogether - the lumpy modulators are judged to spoil the look and most don't go far/fast enough to warrant having the ABS system anyway (too busy posing), so it won't be the end of the world if you do...but you would need to change the brake pipes etc. Also saves the problem of, having got rid of the duck tail, where does the brain and all that cabling go now?


__________________________________________________

Paul

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurancewrite-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red) (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike). June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:50 pm

DBRMN

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Silver member
Silver member
@Born Again Eccentric wrote:
@DBRMN wrote:
... Luckily the ABS has been disconnected from the start of my build so hasn't suffered any depleted batteries...
The ABS system takes all power from the bike main battery - if that battery is run flat, then it throws up a error in the ABS brain. This could have happened with the previous owner...but the error stays locked in the brain until you physically clear it. I don't think there are any internal batteries in the brain. Loads of posts on how to clear the error codes, but it does take patience sometimes.

Most cafe hacks get rid of the ABS altogether - the lumpy modulators are judged to spoil the look and most don't go far/fast enough to warrant having the ABS system anyway (too busy posing), so it won't be the end of the world if you do...but you would need to change the brake pipes etc. Also saves the problem of, having got rid of the duck tail, where does the brain and all that cabling go now?
The guy used the bike as a daily driver so hopefully it never went flat but I guess we'll never know.

Ye I considered removing the ABS but i think it's just safer to keep it on.

So lots of news today:

Got the bike fuelled up and outside ready to fire up. Initially the bike would turn over but not fire so kept trying until it began to fire. Which it didn't for a while, so I checked the spark plugs which were wet and giving off sparks. It then burst into life so I attempted to take of the throttle to let it idle and slowly reduce the choke but it didn't like this and died. I tried quite a few times to get it to idle with full choke no choke everything but it clearly was not running on all 4 cylinders sounds more like two. My teacher came up with two theories:
1. As I didn't have the silencer fitted just open pipes there would be no back pressure causing the timings to be wrong.
2. not all of the spark plugs work and so need replacing. I think tomorrow I'm going to check each spark plug.

However any other suggestions of what could be the problem please let me know. You honestly don't know the excitement it brought to my little face. I'll hopefully upload a youtube link soon!!

Thanks
DBRMN

Edit: Added youtube link:



Last edited by DBRMN on Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:53 pm

Inge K.

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@Born Again Eccentric wrote: ...but the error stays locked in the brain until you physically clear it.

The alarm for low voltage resets its self next time the voltage is high enough
to stay above the preset limit under the start up.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:01 pm

DBRMN

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@Inge K. wrote:
@Born Again Eccentric wrote: ...but the error stays locked in the brain until you physically clear it.

The alarm for low voltage resets its self next time the voltage is high enough
to stay above the preset limit under the start up.
Could you elaborate not sure I get what you mean.

    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:54 pm

Laitch

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@DBRMN wrote:
@Inge K. wrote:
@Born Again Eccentric wrote: ...but the error stays locked in the brain until you physically clear it.

The alarm for low voltage resets its self next time the voltage is high enough
to stay above the preset limit under the start up.
Could you elaborate not sure I get what you mean.
They aren't talking about you, at least I don't think so; those posts are references to the ABS system.

As far as the stubborn starting goes, verify that you have the correct plug wires attached to the correct coil. The front coil connects to plug wires of cylinders 1 and 4, the rear coil connects to 2 and 3.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75T 68,000 miles
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Prep for starting the bike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:41 pm

DBRMN

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@Laitch wrote:
@DBRMN wrote:
@Inge K. wrote:

The alarm for low voltage resets its self next time the voltage is high enough
to stay above the preset limit under the start up.
Could you elaborate not sure I get what you mean.
They aren't talking about you, at least I don't think so; those posts are references to the ABS system.

As far as the stubborn starting goes, verify that you have the correct plug wires attached to the correct coil. The front coil connects to plug wires of cylinders 1 and 4, the rear coil connects to 2 and 3.
I'll have to check but I never touched them and the bike ran when I got it?

    

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