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1Back to top Go down    New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:08 am

jseaman

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Hi All,


I'm a total newcomer to the K series so need a bit of knowhow. I've just picked up a Grinnall Scorpion III that hasn't started for a number of years. 


The engine is free to turn, all ignition systems now seem to be powering and the fuel system is pumping away right up to the fuel rail. When I crank on the key nothing happens which seems to be a break in the wire to the ignition barrel. Firing +12V onto the starter it will crank OK but no sign of life. All fuses are good.


I have no voltage at the injectors (all read 16 Ohms), has anyone got a photo of the FI relay? Obviously nothing is where it would normally be on a bike because this is a car and I'm struggling to find a few bits.

I'm struggling to find a complete wiring diagram, any pin outs available for the ECU or the plugs in pic 1 for ignition?


A few specific queries - what is the 2 pin plug on the coil packs for? (see pic 2)

There are two 5 pin connectors which are interchangeable, which is right?! (pic 3)

Thanks in advance

James


    

2Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:24 am

duck

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What K is your Scorpion based on?  I'm guessing K1100 from what looks to be a 50A alternator.

That two pin plug in pic 2 for a Powerlet socket for powering aux gear. (Like a cigarette lighter plug.) It can also be used to hook up a battery tender.

Those four terminal connectors look custom since in the factory wiring the colors usually match from one connector to its mate.

The one with the three yellow wires and a brown is the from the GPI (gear position indicator) switch on the transmission which tells the instrument cluster what gear the transmission is in.

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/gpi/gpi.htm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:27 am

duck

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You should also post up a pic of the whole Scorpion.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:58 am

jseaman

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Many thanks for chipping in

It's a K1100 but I don't know what year and it seems there are quite a lot of differences!

So I can ignore the 2 pin plug for now, that's good to know

The GPI is one of the bits that works so I'll leave that alone!

Pic of the car is below:


I was swaying towards ECU failure so I just pulled it off the car and it rattled!! I opened it up and found a cap flapping around so I've just ordered another one, I know it won't be as simple as just that but I'll start there.

Is there any kind of resource that shows the Motronic pin outs? I want to check the clutch/neutral start/kill switch is all in the right state

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:11 pm

duck

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Thanks for the pic. Always wanted to see one in person.

Clutch, neutral, start/kill is handled by the instrument cluster and right combo switch, not the Motronic.  If it's in neutral or the clutch is pulled in then the starter motor should spin up even without the Motronic connected.  But of course the Motronic is needed for it to fuel and fire.

Early K1100s have a different Motronic than later ones.

Early:



Late:



Which is yours?


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:29 pm

jseaman

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Neither Smile



Great thanks, so the fact I've got no voltage at the injectors is not likely to be any of that then?

As for the car, it's chassis #3 so quite special if I can make it go (which is hasn't for a long time!)

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:26 pm

duck

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The body tells us that it's an early one.

Some K1100s came with catalytic converters, some didn't.

All of the US ones are cat'd but I think yours might be a non-cat one.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:06 pm

Two Wheels Better

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THIS site says that Bosch number is from a K1. Of course there is overlap in ECU on different BMW motorbikes. Is there a BMW number on it starting with 1 464 7XX, the 'XX' representing the remaining two digits?

Further research shows it to be a BMW part number 13 61 1 464 417, which supersedes to a number of other part numbers, all interchangeable.

13 61 1 464 479 the most recent part number

13 61 1 464 710
 
13 61 1 464 196, 288 & 289

Fits K1100 and K100-16V, prior to 7/93, when BMW eliminated the separate ignition amplifier. I have two extras in my spares supply, both function.

HERE'S a great link for deciphering Bosch/BMW ECU part numbers. Just add the main group number of 13, the subgroup number of 61 and then what BMW calls the 'seven digit unique identifier' X XXX XXX.



Last edited by Two Wheels Better on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:24 pm; edited 4 times in total


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RS, '93 K11/K12 hybrid 'Big Block', '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic, '77 R75/7.
Have we accomplished half of what we dreamt we would? There may still be time.
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:37 pm

jseaman

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Thanks, the engine was originally a K100 8 valve apparently. 

There is no BMW number on it sadly. Do you know if the K100 ECU could drive a K1100? I have no idea what they changed between them

It would be great to know what other ECU options I have as this has been chipped and is now damaged so is suspect!

I'd love to get a schematic of the ECU if anyone knows of one

    

10Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:29 pm

Two Wheels Better

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@jseaman wrote:Thanks, the engine was originally a K100 8 valve apparently. 

There is no BMW number on it sadly. Do you know if the K100 ECU could drive a K1100? I have no idea what they changed between them

It would be great to know what other ECU options I have as this has been chipped and is now damaged so is suspect!

I'd love to get a schematic of the ECU if anyone knows of one
The ECU from a K100, because it uses a 'flapper' inside the airbox and is a totally different type of fuel injection known as LE-Jetronic, will not function in a K100-16V or a K1100. The latter are 'Motronic 2.1'.

See my list of part numbers and other details above for more info. There are several companies worldwide who will repair a damaged ECU. But I'll wager you can get a clean, used spare from eBay or a forum member locally for not much dosh.


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RS, '93 K11/K12 hybrid 'Big Block', '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic, '77 R75/7.
Have we accomplished half of what we dreamt we would? There may still be time.
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:32 pm

duck

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Please post a picture of the fuel injectors and throttle bodies and we'll be able to tell if it's a 2V or 4V motor.

I don't 100% know off the top of my head if 2V motor can be run with a 4V Motoronic but it's probably possible.

I know that Grinnell chipped those bikes which you can't do to a 2V L-Jetronic so that might be why they have a 4V Motronic running a 2V motor.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:40 pm

Two Wheels Better

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@duck wrote:Please post a picture of the fuel injectors and throttle bodies and we'll be able to tell if it's a 2V or 4V motor.

I don't 100% know off the top of my head if 2V motor can be run with a 4V Motoronic but it's probably possible.

I know that Grinnell chipped those bikes which you can't do to a 2V L-Jetronic so that might be why they have a 4V Motronic running a 2V motor.
In my experience, one could, with the correct engine wiring loom, run Motronic 2.1 on an 8V engine as all the critical pick up points required are the same, though you might find a temperature sensor that has a different configuration to its connector. Of course, the 8V airbox guts would be redundant, but the ignition wiring plug is the same pattern. Only K1200RS/GT differ from K100/K1100 there.

As Duck suggests, to determine whether K100 8V or a 16V motor, describe the rubber intakes just above the throttle bodies. Are they rubber accordian-shaped, or smooth rubber 'tubes'?


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RS, '93 K11/K12 hybrid 'Big Block', '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic, '77 R75/7.
Have we accomplished half of what we dreamt we would? There may still be time.
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:55 pm

jseaman

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So I can use any of these:

13 61 1 464 479 
13 61 1 464 710
13 61 1 464 196
13 61 1 464 288
13 61 1 464 289

Is that right?

And I must have a K1100 ECU then based on the AFM (is it MAP on the K1100?)

I'll do the cap repair myself, the PCB looks fine but it's the invisible issues that concern me.

It has a Grinnall 'Superchips' install.

See attached pic of the injectors and TB inlets, they are accordion shaped

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:06 pm

Two Wheels Better

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The injectors fire into the base of the TBs, not directly into the cylinder head port, so it's a K11 or K100-16V. There is no AFM on this model, only K75 & K100-8V. Yes, any of those ECU in my list, but click on the link in one of my previous posts to determine which other numbers you can use by crossing it from the Bosch number.


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RS, '93 K11/K12 hybrid 'Big Block', '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic, '77 R75/7.
Have we accomplished half of what we dreamt we would? There may still be time.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:15 pm

jseaman

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Thanks, sorry for my ignorance but by K11 do you include K1100? I don't know the numbering at all yet? And how would I tell if it is  a K100 16V or 'K11'?

Sorry just gone through the link, lots of options there!

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Two Wheels Better

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@jseaman wrote:Thanks, sorry for my ignorance but by K11 do you include K1100? I don't know the numbering at all yet? And how would I tell if it is  a K100 16V or 'K11'?

Sorry just gone through the link, lots of options there!
By K11 I mean K1100RS and K1100LT, but also interchangeable with K100-16V and K1 models. Stay away from K1100 from late '93 unless you wish to remove the separate ignition amplifier. Your part number suggests your trike has this, the earlier type. Without the ign amp it would then be using the later Motronic 2.1 as I have in my Big Block (shown elsewhere). This later ECU was used in catalyst/oxygen sensor equipped models.


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RS, '93 K11/K12 hybrid 'Big Block', '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic, '77 R75/7.
Have we accomplished half of what we dreamt we would? There may still be time.
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:36 am

jseaman

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Wow there are a lot of K numbers!! So a K11 refered to K1100xx, what is the difference between an RS and LT ECU? And the K100 and K1 are interchangeable also with the K11, why so many numbers?!

Any idea how I work out what year my current engine is? Mine does have the separate ICU, I can't find any wiring diagrams for that either!

    

18Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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You know where the oil level sight glass and filler cap are? Under the filler cap there is a smooth upright section facing to the right hand side with the engine and engine code numbers stamped on it. Can you get at it to read them. I have a friend has a Scorpion but his is K1100 and you can access both. You might need to use phone to take a photo but the engine code is on that


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 82,200 miles
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:14 am

jseaman

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Fantastic thanks, will take a look tonight

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:06 am

duck

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The K1 and K100RS4V are both 1,000 CC motors that use the same Motornic. They do not use the same Motronic as the K1100s though.

K1100s are 1,100 CCs.  The difference between the RS and LT is the frame and fairing but the motors and Motronic are the same. RS is the sport version and LT is the touring version. 93- and 94+ K1100s use different Motronics.

There is a date cast into the top of the engine block above the rear of the crankshaft but you need to remove the bottom half of the air box to see it.


.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:15 am

jseaman

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Brilliant, that's really useful, thanks

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:24 pm

jseaman

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OK so I have:

114EA 0293 2259

February 93?

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:18 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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@jseaman wrote:OK so I have:

114EA 0293 2259

February 93?
See link to help decipher the engine number:
http://www.k100-forum.com/t7276-complete-2v-engine#83840

Reading yours it says:

  • 11 = 1100cc 
  • 4 = 4 cylinder
  • EA = emission code
  • 02 = manufactured in the 2nd week of the year (not "Feb" as you guessed)
  • 93 = 1993 (year of manufacture)
  • 2259 = number of engine off the production line in that week/year


__________________________________________________
 
                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:13 pm

jseaman

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Great thank you for that (and indeed everyone who has been helpful on here!)

So at least I now know what I have, the only ECU I can find is this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-K1100-LT-ECU/362261830507?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649

And frustrated to miss this bargain the other day!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/273292038674?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l10137

I'm still no closer to a pin out for the ECU or ICU sadly which is what I really need but will see how the ECU behaves with this new cap on later in the week

    

25Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:14 pm

duck

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That's a 93 Motronic pinout I did some years ago.  Not 100% sure it's correct and it's probably for a cat'd US bike and I suspect yours may be non-cat.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:18 pm

jseaman

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Thanks, from what I can tell, pin 1 is +12V and pin 2 is ground which doesn't tie up Sad


Mine doesn't have a cat now but no idea from the factory!

I've never struggled to find a wiring diagram for an ECU before, it makes things very tricky!

    

27Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:34 pm

duck

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Pin 12 is output to the diagnostic plug. On a bike that diagnostic plug would be a capped off (with a blue cap) three wire connector somewhere near the left top of the battery.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:31 am

jseaman

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Thanks, I'll see if I can find that

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:07 pm

jseaman

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I finally had a bit of progress!

I've soldered the new cap onto the ECU and it did nothing as expected. I realised that I have an immobiliser in the loop which, whilst it appeared to be working (solenoid click when you put the fob on), could have been interfering. I got bold and ripped it all out only to find the two wires it interrupts were the starter signal and the 12V feed to the injectors. 

The good news is I now have volts at the fuel injectors which is great. I need to do some more work to track the starter signal wire issue (hopefully I can get that resolved pretty swiftly). I'll rip out the rest of the alarm stuff (just LED and fob bits) then start working on spark. 

Oh, and I found the diagnostic connector tucked away under a bit of the loom so that may come in handy too.

Maybe it will live again one day ...

    

30Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:50 pm

jseaman

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OK back to you guys again, hopefully you can help me move forward again.

I have soldered back in the original loom and I can crank the engine on the starter now. I have +12V at the spark plugs and +12V at the fuel injectors. Neither appear to be firing though.

I've done a crude voltage measurement on the hall sensor and I can see it changing state when cranking so it doesn't appear to be dead. 

So, any ideas on where to go next. My thoughts currently are that if the hall sensors are doing their job I'm really only left with an ECU fault but all other ECU functions appear to be working.

    

31Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:24 pm

RicK G

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Considering that both functions rely on an earth being exended to make the circuit then have you checked that all (and there are quite a few) the brown earth wires are connected under the screw on the main spine tube under the tank. Have a good search around and make sure one has not escaped and is hiding in the mass of wires.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

32Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:21 am

jseaman

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Thanks, I don't have a spine tube or the tank and the earths are all black but it's a good idea to have a hunt around them so will do so asap

    

33Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:09 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Starter signal issue may be affected by what was done with the side stand and clutch switch wiring off the original bike.

If you have a working neutral light you should be k, but if you don't then you will need a working clutch switch or preferably a looped out clutch switch and possibly a looped out side stand switch. These are easy to do once you find the connectors......ones off broken switches work fine.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 82,200 miles
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:30 am

Ringfad

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I have spare Motronics - let me know if you want to borrow one for troubleshooting.

FYI The one on eBay you are looking at has a broken mounting tab.


__________________________________________________


   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:16 am

jseaman

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Yes the neutral light works correctly. From what little schematic I have found, the stand switch hits the fuel pump relay (which is working) and the clutch switch seems to go to the 'combined right' so I guess starter/kill switch which are working. That said, I'd really love to know which pin on the Motronic it is so I can actually measure it!


I did notice the broken tab but thanks. I'd be absolutely delighted to try an alternative ECU if you are willing to help out? Really appreciate the input as usual folks, thanks

    

36Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:21 am

Ringfad

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PM me you address and I will send it to you


__________________________________________________


   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)
    

37Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:36 am

duck

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The Motronic is not involved in getting power to the starter.

When the clutch is pulled in the clutch switch sends 12V to the start/kill switch via a black/green wire.

When the bike is in neutral the instrument cluster sends 12 to the start/kill switch via another black/green wire.

If either is sending 12V to the start/kill switch then pressing the start button sends 12V to the starter relay via a black/yellow wire.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

38Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:47 am

jseaman

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Ah I see, thank you!

None of those wire colours tie up with what I'm seeing but the principle helps. There is a white wire with a red stripe that is the signal to the relay which, thinking about it, is straight from the ignition barrel so I guess I have bypassed both of those?

    

39Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:24 pm

jseaman

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OK so I'm pretty much back to stock now I think. I fitted a new ignition module which made no difference.

I've got the hall signal right up to the ECU which changes voltage when cranking so the only thing I can think of between that pulse in and the injector/coil pulse out is the ECU itself. Whilst checking for spark I managed to get a little shock when turning the ignition off so I know everything is doing what it should except the signal to pulse the coils.

Fingers crossed Ringfad's ECU might confirm my suspicions...

    

40Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:06 am

Ringfad

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Motronic tested yesterday , got distracted fixing a friends K1100RS (burst brake pipe) so missed the post.

Will try and get it posted tomorrow but at least you will have a known good one to play with.


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   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)
    

41Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:32 am

jseaman

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That's amazing, thank you very much for your help! I'm hanging all my hopes on that being my fix now!

    

42Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:56 am

Dai

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I wonder if Ginnall's replacement ECU ICs deal with the fueling mismatch between the Motronic and the K100 engine?  Mike put that setup on a rig when he was building the Braun replica and the resulting power graph was - to say the least - a bit ugly.

Don't throw the old Motronic away. You may need those ICs to get the engine to run properly. If it fires up with Simon's Motronic but runs like the proverbial bag of shit, consider that might be the problem.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

43Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:29 am

jseaman

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Today I changed every fuse in the car just in case. I found I can't read error codes out so the ECU is definitely suspect

For the TPS, when I ground pin 3 of the diagnostics connector, pin 1 is always +12V. Measuring the TPS signal at the ECU, I had 1.7V at idle (should be max 0.4V) to 4.7 at wide open. I've now set this to 0.38V at idle but still have +12V on pin 1 when pin 3 is grounded

On the plus side I have headlights and half of one side when indicating

    

44Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:29 am

jseaman

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@Dai wrote:I wonder if Ginnall's replacement ECU ICs deal with the fueling mismatch between the Motronic and the K100 engine?  Mike put that setup on a rig when he was building the Braun replica and the resulting power graph was - to say the least - a bit ugly.

Don't throw the old Motronic away. You may need those ICs to get the engine to run properly. If it fires up with Simon's Motronic but runs like the proverbial bag of shit, consider that might be the problem.

I certainly won't be throwing the old one out!

It looks like there is just one 'superchips' Grinnall chip that is fitted. What is the mismatch you refer to?

    

45Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:38 am

Dai

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The fueling is simply wrong - it's mostly running rich IIRC.The Motronic is trying to feed a 4-valve engine whereas yours is a 2-valve engine. If you're refering to the 20-pin (?) IC in the middle of the PCB (it should be mounted in a socket), then yes, you'll need to fit this instead of the standard IC in Simon's unit.

Try Simon's unit first; if the engine runs then try swapping ICs. This will tell you if your IC is still okay. If it isn't, it's worth talking to Grinnall but they'll most likely want to charge a fortune if they still have the fueling map.

Simon - if you want to leave your Motronic with James, I have one here you can pick up next time you're passing. It's not a great deal of use to me and came with a bunch of 2-valve stuff.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

46Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:22 am

Laitch

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@Dai wrote:The fueling is simply wrong - it's mostly running rich IIRC.The Motronic is trying to feed a 4-valve engine whereas yours is a 2-valve engine.
In posts #20–#23, it seems to me the engine was identified as a K1100. scratch


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47Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:00 am

Dai

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Thanks Laitch - missed that - serves me right Very Happy . The comment about replacing the IC still applies though.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

48Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:08 pm

jseaman

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Yes indeed it's an 1100 and that's exactly the process I was going to follow thanks

Can't get over how helpful you guys are, thanks!!

    

49Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:53 pm

Ringfad

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The Motronic is on it's way, it is travelling from Dublin so may not be as quick as Royal Mail :-)


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   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)
    

50Back to top Go down    Re: New member with some troubles! on Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:23 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@Ringfad wrote:The Motronic is on it's way, it is travelling from Dublin so may not be as quick as Royal Mail :-)

That should be there for Wednesday if it's in this evenings mail!.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 82,200 miles
    

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