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1Back to top Go down    Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:06 am

MartinW

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I have ordered a new set of splines from Moto Bins. And have stuck my nose into the messy subject of spline lubricants. I have originally used Optimol paste until the last check at 160.000 K's where I  detected spline wear and changed to Honda Moly 60. I would have tried the Guard Dog spline lube which seems to rate high but it's no longer available. I discovered heaps of conflicting opinions ( as usual) but I have decided to go down the Paul Glaves route and do a 50-50 mix of Honda Moly 60 and Wurth SIG 3000.  I found one site in the US $24.00 US for the grease and $36.00 US for freight which equates to $80.00 AU. While I love my Brick and don't want my new splines to suffer I think $80.00 is a bit steep. Does anybody know where to get SIG 3000 in OZ or a viable substitute. I do think I might have opened a rather large can of worms.  
Regards Martin


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2Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:24 am

RicK G

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Splines wear no matter what you do. I have been using the Rocol as you have probably read and have found it to be as good as the best you will get elsewhere.


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3Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:06 am

MartinW

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Thanks Rick I've got a couple of litres of Rocol cutting lubricant, what's left from a 5 litre bottle. I somehow don't think it will do, so I looked it up GA 50. I have gotten 160,000 K's running Optimol so I really can't complain. I just thought the 50-50 Paul Glaves mix might be worth a go looking at the reports 300,000 miles.
Regards Martin.


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4Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:04 am

TacKler

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Have you had a look on the Worth Australia site?  I know of two stores here with one at Ormeau and the other at Acacia Ridge(?).    Don't know if there are any on the north side.


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5Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:16 am

MartinW

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Dave I had a look at their site and it didn't come up with anything when I put in SIG 3000. I tried to ring them but they're not open till Monday. I'll give it a try but I believe it could be a US only product, they don't even seem to get it in Canada.
Regards Martin.


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6Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:42 pm

Two Wheels Better

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If it turns out to not be available in OZ easily I will consider dragging some along in my stowed luggage in September. The local Würth rep here is a friend of mine.


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Bricks: '87 K100RS & Big Block '93 K11 frame, forks, Paralever & gearbox w/'02 K1200RS motor, brakes & wheels. 
Other: '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7-R100 dual-plugged w/340 cam, big valves, 40mm carbs & exhaust.
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:14 pm

MartinW

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TWB much appreciate the kind offer and might have to take you up on it. I even tried the Wurth UK trying to get a better freight price but nothing shows when you enter SIG 3000. I'll have more information on Monday after ringing Wurth on the GC. As a matter of interest what do you run on your splines.
Regards Martin.


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8Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:59 pm

Two Wheels Better

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@MartinW wrote:TWB much appreciate the kind offer and might have to take you up on it. I even tried the Wurth UK trying to get a better freight price but nothing shows when you enter SIG 3000. I'll have more information on Monday after ringing Wurth on the GC. As a matter of interest what do you run on your splines(?)
Regards Martin.
I've begun to use Honda M-77* (which replaces Moly 60) combined with Castrol Optimol Paste TA. Many years prior, I was using Moly 60 and Optimol. I have never worn out from lack of proper treatment a drive or clutch spline on any motorbike except for an Airhead wheel drive. At one time Staburags was recommended and it was shite; more abrasive than protective.



*Honda OEM number 08798-9010


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Bricks: '87 K100RS & Big Block '93 K11 frame, forks, Paralever & gearbox w/'02 K1200RS motor, brakes & wheels. 
Other: '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7-R100 dual-plugged w/340 cam, big valves, 40mm carbs & exhaust.
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:03 pm

MartinW

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TWB very interesting mix. I have Optimol and Honda Moly 60 in stock, what ratios of mix do you use? With the Optimol being white I believe there's no moly in it's construction. I did find one reference to Optimol containing PTFE but unable to now find the post. When my new weld in spline arrives from the UK, I am going to see whether it is possible to cap the end before welding it onto the shaft thereby creating a reservoir. After doing this I want to see whether the addition of a grease nipple would be possible. If there is enough clearance, a hole in the driveshaft tunnel might allow access to the nipple. There are a lot of if's and maybes but it might be worth a look.
Regards Martin.


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10Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:52 pm

MartinW

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Just got off the phone from Wurth in Ormeau. SIG 3000 grease is not stocked in OZ, they have never heard of it and they can't get it from the US.   
Regards Martin.


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11Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:19 pm

Two Wheels Better

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Use the Optimol that's silver, their part number 000-043-305-08 (MS56) which replaces the superseded part number 000-043-020-00.


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Bricks: '87 K100RS & Big Block '93 K11 frame, forks, Paralever & gearbox w/'02 K1200RS motor, brakes & wheels. 
Other: '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7-R100 dual-plugged w/340 cam, big valves, 40mm carbs & exhaust.
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:54 pm

MartinW

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Thanks TWB and others. I have pored over the internet looking at spline lubricants until my eyes bled. I spent half a day over a mates place looking at various final drive parts that are disassembled trying to work out whether a grease nipple can be fitted. 

It would be possible but not necessarily desirable. If the new spline with a sealed end thereby creating a reservoir was fitted there would be a problem. The shaft would have to be fitted with the reservoir empty in order to stop a hydraulic lock on assembly. Once assembled how do you know whether subsequent greasing is lubricating every spline. So maybe the old way is best, it doesn't require much time (30-45 min). I'm now retired so time is now a non issue.  Sleep 

As far as the actual lubricant goes I'm going to chase up some Optimol TA paste today. After a bit of a search I found the actual BMW part no 18 21 9 062 599.
Regards Martin.


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13Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:05 pm

MartinW

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I just got of the phone to Morgan and Wacker they had two tubes in stock in the warranty bin. The spare parts person had to ring me back after getting permission to sell it to me. A bit confused by the warranty bin and the getting permission to sell it. They rang, back cost $30.90 AU if you want it posted $5.00 Au normal post $10.00 au overnight.  
Regards Martin.


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14Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:59 pm

Two Wheels Better

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BMW's 'Optymoly' paste MP 3 is still available in a 100g tube. It's part number 07 55 9 062 475. Perhaps that's what you're after from M & W?


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Bricks: '87 K100RS & Big Block '93 K11 frame, forks, Paralever & gearbox w/'02 K1200RS motor, brakes & wheels. 
Other: '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7-R100 dual-plugged w/340 cam, big valves, 40mm carbs & exhaust.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 pm

MartinW

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TWB hopefully it will arrive today and I'll know. The conversation with M & W was a bit strange. Seeing as you are in the industry can you clarify, the warranty box and why she had to get permission to sell me one of the two tubes? scratch 
Regards Martin.


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16Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:04 pm

Laitch

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@MartinW wrote:Seeing as you are in the industry can you clarify, the warranty box and why she had to get permission to sell me one of the two tubes?
I'm not TWB but I can't help that.

The warranty box is where parts are stored that have failed under warranty. One of the reasons a container of lube would be in there is that it was ordered by somebody who thought it was one thing but it turned out to be another. If the seal had been broken, then permission probably would have been needed to sell it because the spare parts person feared being sucked into a vortex of liability caused by your future claim—false or legitimate—regarding the product and how it changed your life for the worse. It's hell out there.


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17Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:32 pm

MartinW

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Thanks Laitch, It got bit confusing with all the back and forth stuff.  
Regards a less confused Martin.


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18Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Two Wheels Better

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It's more like, to be paid by BMW for the warranty claim, the dealership has to show use of proper chemicals, solvents, etc.

My guess is that you'll get a slightly used tube, or that they're new because they got billed to the R.O. (repair order) as required by the manufacturer, and not used at all...and they're there in case the manufacturer calls the job back for inspection. This is not an automatic happening with every warranty case.

No one said it's an honest system.


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Bricks: '87 K100RS & Big Block '93 K11 frame, forks, Paralever & gearbox w/'02 K1200RS motor, brakes & wheels. 
Other: '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '04 R1150RT, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7-R100 dual-plugged w/340 cam, big valves, 40mm carbs & exhaust.
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:34 pm

Gaz

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Hi Martin, interesting to follow the detective work you've been doing on the spline lubricant.

I saw further back in the thread that you made reference to GA50, was it this one?

I use it on the final drive splines and it is readily available from Blackwoods.

Cheers


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95 K1100LT 0232224; 90 K75 6427509; 87 R80G/S PD 6292136
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:59 pm

MartinW

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Gaz I am impatiently waiting for the morning post. The product I am waiting for is hopefully Optimol TA. I'm also waiting for splines and a few other bits from Moto Bins and Mann oil filters from Brisbane Air Cleaner Services. 
Regards Martin.


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21Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:39 pm

MartinW

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Thanks to all who advised on the shaft lube even if i didn't take the advice. Post has arrived with the Molub Alloy Paste TA and it is silver. Now waiting on the replacement spline and a couple of minor things that I had thrown in. 

I need the forums opinions on whether to make a reservoir by blanking off the new splines by welding possibly by welding a welsh plug on the end. I believe both Bruno and Chris  Harris advocate this by using a silicone plug. 

While I do believe that a grease nipple could be fitted. And access created by drilling a hole in the shaft tunnel with either a tapped plug or rubber grommet. I'm not convinced that grease would be applied consistently to all the splines. Opinions on this would also be appreciated.
Regards Martin.


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22Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:33 pm

robmack

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Hard to say but looking at pictures of the spline that was replaced for me by Bruno on my previous K100, it appears to be plastic. Photos below (sorry but the plug is out of focus because I was interested in the splines):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eK9RDHg2uxgDBYiv9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DQQ5TZRFv2ZXPf7d8


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23Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:50 pm

duck

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@Two Wheels Better wrote:If it turns out to not be available in OZ easily I will consider dragging some along in my stowed luggage in September. The local Würth rep here is a friend of mine.

One tube should last all of Australia for some time.

14 oz is a heck of a lot.


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
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24Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:04 am

MartinW

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Thanks Rob it looks like it's been MIG welded with a continuous weld. It has been definitely been plugged and at a guess I'd say silicone. Duck the reason for the 14oz tube I was thinking of greasing with a grease gun with a mixture of Honda Moly 60 and SIG 3000. Whereas now I think I've come to my senses and just do it manually.  
I am still thinking of plugging the spline but that will have to wait until it arrives.
Regards Martin.


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25Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:21 am

duck

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I made a HUGE mistake when I got my tube of the Wurth 3000 several years ago. I decided to mix it with the Honda Moly 60 in the palm of my hand. I soon discovered how sticky it really is. Embarassed


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:25 am

Gaz

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I have one of the Emerald Island designed drive shafts in my K75 and they have a blind cavity forward of the female spline area which stops the lube disappearing up the shaft.

Half fill this cavity with lube - push it onto the male spline on the final drive - wipe off the excess and assemble. Seems to be the same when you next look at it.

I reckon block that hole.

Cheers


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Gaz
95 K1100LT 0232224; 90 K75 6427509; 87 R80G/S PD 6292136
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:45 am

MartinW

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Gaz that is interesting, so blocking the hole seems to be the go. So now I just have to wait for the spline to appear and determine whether to weld or silicone. I believe one of the partial parts bike my mate has, has got the Irish shaft, it will only slide out as far as the uni joint and will go no further. It has really good splines on it too. 
Regards Martin.


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28Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:16 am

Gaz

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Go down to Section D, paragraph 5 on the page of Snowbum's site in the link below for a look at the Emerald Island design. The photos are of the paralever version. Mine is the same design but of course with the single uni.

Snowbum comments on Emerald Island driveshaft

Cheers


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Gaz
95 K1100LT 0232224; 90 K75 6427509; 87 R80G/S PD 6292136
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:07 am

MartinW

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Gaz next time I'm over at my mates place I'll take a couple of piccies and post them. Unfortunately  I can't take piccies of the U/joint as we can't get the bloody thing out, not without taking the housing off. Mate will probably get around one day, someday, maybe, possibly to take it off. Probably not he's got too many projects going at the same time and darts from one to the other.   I have offered to help with his Bricks but he has declined multiple times.   
Regards Martin.


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30Back to top Go down    Re: Wurth SIG 3000 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:33 am

Gaz

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Yes, I have to take the swingarm out to fit the shaft - feed it in from the gearbox end. Some people have ground some extra clearance out of the swingarm casting at the rear to fit them however that's not my style as I don't think it's a massive job to remove the swingarm on the rare occasion it might have to be done.

I'm not familiar with the term "Irish Shaft" but maybe it's one of the same type as mine. BTW I've done 53,000km on that shaft so far.

Cheers


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