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1Back to top Go down    ignition switch key replacement on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:55 pm

dakelvinator

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Hi just need help with the wiring  Embarassed I bought this ignition switch of flea bay, it has one position (off too on) the wire colours are: red, black and white, green, black. MY current faulty Ignition has the following wires: Gray, RED, Blue ant Gray, Green. So can any one tell me what goes where? I am assuming Red goes to Red? My electrical skills  not good!  
 Thank you in advance! K.

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:25 pm

Dai

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The bad news is that ignition switch won't replace the BMW one as BMW, bless their little cotton socks, chose to build the switch internals like nobody else does. There simply isn't an aftermarket replacement. You can use that switch by wiring red-red, green-green and then joining the BMW slate and slate/blue wires together, but you'll lose the pilot-light-only circuit (first switch position on the BMW switch). Ignore the black and black/white wires as you only need those if wiring in a Japanese CDI ignition system. Cut them off.

Question; have you tried dismantling and cleaning your existing switch? If not, take it to pieces in a bucket because there's a tiny ball bearing and spring in there that will make a dash for freedom.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:15 am

charlie99

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think im going to interupt the switch path and install a relay back where its safe and out of the way (and lower cable current  to the switch assembly )

have a 3 position so I could possibly use the park lights ...but not a requirement out here now , so ?

would be good if dak  provided a switch logic for the colours ?


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:29 am

dakelvinator

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Thanks for that guys, not straight forward then! (Thanks bmw) how difficult is it to dismantle the old key ignition? Is it usually a successful repair? Basically it turns on and when I start the bike the ignition lights go dim The bike cuts out but as soon as I touch the key it works again! The ignition i bought had no instructions at all!

    

5Back to top Go down    ignition switch replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:42 am

audibob

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When I was having issues with my original switch, I phoned Motorworks and they had a couple in stock.

The stores guy said they were in discussions with a manufacturer to cost up 

brand new switches, due to demand.

The first switch had a wrong key supplied as it would only go to the first position.

The second was in good condition with a positive action between key positions.

Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

6Back to top Go down    ignition switch replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:45 am

audibob

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Dakelvinator,

have you had that bike long ?

I seem to remember the reg plate from somewhere 

bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:40 am

Dai

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@Charlie: easy. Just about every aftermarket ignition switch I've seen is either wired for Honda (four wires) or Suzuki (six wires). In that case it's Honda. Turn it on and you have red to green and black to black/white. What I like about the Suzuki-style switches is that if re-wiring a magneto-equipped bike, I can use the ignition switch to kill the mag because one pair of terminals connect at 'off'.

@Dakelvinator: search 'ignition switch' on the forum. There's quite a few strip'n'repair topics.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:30 am

Crazy Frog

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The procedure to clean the ignition switch is on our tech resource page cheers
Click here.


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:37 am

charlie99

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VIP
cheers Dai


the service of the key switch mechanism is pretty easy ...but as suggested  do it in a bucket as disassembling

the hardest thing really is removing the switch part from the key housing...there is a tiny grub screw holding the electrical switch to the body of the switch

there are a few posts in the forum showing what needs to be done  from memory

good luck


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:07 am

nobbylon

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It’s the same switch used on mono twins and I just rebuilt one and installed it on my Dakar. Very easy to rebuild and clean but fiddly.



__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
K100 Dec 1983 
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:53 pm

D'Ecosse

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@charlie99 wrote:would be good if dak  provided a switch logic for the colours ?
Not dak (Or Dai even Laughing ) but here you go:

On Main Harness side you have 
Red - Power IN - Constant Power From Fuse Panel 
Green - Power OUT - to Kill/Run Switch  
Grey - Power OUT to Park Lights 
Grey/Blue - Power IN - Effectively from Load-Shed Relay for Lighting*

*The Grey/Blue circuit powers the Instrument Back Lighting, but note that this is not ORIGINATING from the Key-Switch, but an upstream circuit capability that creates that functionality and in this context is also used to provide the input pole for the park lights when the normal 'on' function of the switch is used.  
When the 'Park' position of the switch is utilized it will light the park lights but NOT the instrument lights. 

Normal 'On' Positions Couple Red to Green and Grey/Blue to Grey 
'Park' Position couples Red to Grey 

Few people will ever use the 'park' position of the Switch - if you don't need that feature, you can simple join the Grey/Blue and Grey together - the Grey/Blue is already 'switched' further upstream by the Red-Green pole of the switch, therefor it is no necessary to be switched again - the ONLY reason that additional switch is there is to provide the capability for the Park function. (It does not mean your Park Lights won't work in the 'On' position, only that you will no longer have functionality of the 'Park' position.) 
If your new key-switch DOES have park position available and want to retain it, then check which wires are connected when that position is selected. 

That leaves only the function for Red to Green to be connected when in On position 
Again check your after-market switch to see which positions are connected together when key is on and connect accordingly. 

Here is full functionality where the Park Light Operation of the switch is preserved 



Here is much simpler version for those who do not want to have the Park Position Capability. 



Note: my understanding/interpretation of MOT requirement in UK is that Capability for 'Parking' Lights is NOT actually required (there is Law about WHEN you would need to these IF you park in certain locations, but NOT that the vehicle MUST be equipped - however the MOT requirement would be that IF the switch has the provision for the Park Position then it needs to be operational. i.e. if the switch does not have the capability then that will not constitute a failure.  
Please check these regulations for yourself - that is my own interpretation when researching this previously (for use with my KeyLess Ignition system which does not have any Park capability

*important to understand - when I say Parking Lights I mean those lights that are on when the the key-switch is in the 'park' position and key may be removed; these same lights are also used for 'running' light function when the Key is in normal 'on' position. 
With the simplified circuit above, those lights will remain functional in the 'running' mode (and only enabled by the key) but will no longer have capability in the 'park' mode.



Last edited by D'Ecosse on Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:21 pm; edited 2 times in total

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:47 pm

dakelvinator

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Thank you all for the information very helpful I will delve into it when i get a chance this week and keep you posted. I have had the bike for a few years now and have done lots to it but wiring is my downfall. I think i will attach the new switch as a temporary measure while i try and fix the original or source a replacement. Thank you again  Very Happy

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:46 pm

dakelvinator

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Hi I have temporally fitted the ignition appears to be working so far the real test will be my 60 mile commute tomorrow! however it has developed a new problem but i will put that on another page as i am not sure if its electrical. Thanks again for your help K.

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: ignition switch key replacement on Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:27 pm

Crazy Frog

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@D'Ecosse wrote:

On Main Harness side you have 
Red - Power IN - Constant Power From Fuse Panel 
Green - Power OUT - to Kill/Run Switch  
Grey - Power OUT to Park Lights 
Grey/Blue - Power IN - Effectively from Load-Shed Relay for Lighting*.......
like


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

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