BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:40 am

TheGreatMorten

TheGreatMorten
active member
active member
Hello everyone

Spring is around the corner, and im getting my K100rs 16v back together from the paintshop.
Last season i was running on Castrol Power 1 20w/50 which is a mineral oil.

I have some ELF Cruise 20W50 in the garage, but would a syntetic oil be better? I have thought about 10w50 Elf Tech, semi syntetic oil which have a good reputation. But i dont know many who runs a k100 where i live, so i would love the experiance with what you Guys run on :-)

My K have rode around 100.000 km /62.000 miles

    

2Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:23 am

duck

duck
Life time member
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To me there's not much point in running semi-synth oils. You still need a 6,000 mile change interval whereas with a full synth you can have a 10,000 mile change interval.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:23 am

BobT

BobT
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5/40 synthetic. Why use old 1980s oil specs when there is much better around these days. Change every 15,000 kms whether it needs it or not.

    

4Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:26 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
I have always used Shell RX5 and have had no problems but my source of cheap shell oil has sold his business so I will be changing to a full synthetic and expect no problems. Use the best oil you can justify buying. Usually synthetic have a longer life so cost isn't as much different as the price suggests.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

5Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 am

TheGreatMorten

TheGreatMorten
active member
active member
I Work with Castrol and ELF oil, so the Price on those 2 brands dont matter :-D
But im interested in what whould be the BEST oil, Mineral or syntectic.. and what viscosity

    

6Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:42 am

BobT

BobT
Life time member
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@TheGreatMorten wrote:I Work with Castrol and ELF oil, so the Price on those 2 brands dont matter :-D
But im interested in what whould be the BEST oil, Mineral or syntectic.. and what viscosity
The brand is mostly irrelevant as all oil has specifications. As to what is the best, have a look at what BMW use in their latest bikes and that is probably close. I could go into the second part of your question, but that would take a very long time.

    

7Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:44 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
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I have used lots of oils and don't use the 5W as it seems too thin so I stick with 10W40 and 15W40. I found on 3 Ks so far that fully synthetic tends to weep very slightly on the engine covers and not sure why but it doesn't create an issue.


Spec is the important bit. A lot of the branded oils anyway are actually made by the big oil companies.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 91,850 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox
    

8Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:08 am

TheGreatMorten

TheGreatMorten
active member
active member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I have used lots of oils and don't use the 5W as it seems too thin so I stick with 10W40 and 15W40. I found on 3 Ks so far that fully synthetic tends to weep very slightly on the engine covers and not sure why but it doesn't create an issue.


Spec is the important bit. A lot of the branded oils anyway are actually made by the big oil companies.


You seem to know your oil :-) How many kms have your k ridden? and would you reccomend a semisync 10w40 / 10w50 above a 20w50 mineral?

    

9Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:28 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@BobT wrote:
@TheGreatMorten wrote:I Work with Castrol and ELF oil, so the Price on those 2 brands dont matter :-D
But im interested in what whould be the BEST oil, Mineral or syntectic.. and what viscosity
The brand is mostly irrelevant as all oil has specifications. As to what is the best, have a look at what BMW use in their latest bikes and that is probably close. I could go into the second part of your question, but that would take a very long time.
This is not true. Just because all oils meet the same specs does not mean they're all the same.  Some are actually better than others, starting from what crude is used and then how it is refined. (Insert 5,000 post oil thread with lots of chemistry mumbo jumbo here.)

All that aside, the most important thing is to change the oil regularly.


And since K bikes have pretty bulletproof engines I do agree that in the end it probably doesn't matter all that much what brand you use.

For conventional I prefer Castrol GTX 20/50 and for synthetic Mobil 1 15/50.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

10Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:29 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
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I seem now to hit 20-25,000 miles a year.

Oils have changed so much since Ks were designed.

I don't put mineral oil in anything. While it works its got to be changed a lot more frequently because it doesn't have long life. Diesel cars in 80s were change oil 2,000 miles although that was partly to do with fuel quality. My Honda fours back in the 70s were change at 2,000 miles running on mineral oil because that's all there was. Even then people fought over whether you used Castrol GTX or Duckhams.

Semi and fully synthetic oils last much longer and retain their quality better. For the extended life you need fully synthetic and then you can go for very long service intervals. This works for fleet users because it extended costly service intervals.

I don't get hung up on the brand name, love those debates where 'mine goes 0.002mph faster with X brand or I get 0.5 miles extra per tank of fuel. Reality is none of us will notice the difference and it may be the case its actually the same oil with a different name on the container. You can go to Lidl, Aldi, Halfords or many more and buy oil that meets the spec.

Manufacturing tolerances have improved and improved engine management has allowed closer tolerances meaning thinner oils are needed hence 5 and 10W for cold starts. On old school, old or well worn engines 5W may struggle to get up oil pressure. The upper 30 may be too thin when engine is hot and clearances open up a little, in extreme hot you will see 50W specd.

There are endless heated discussions on oils but while mineral oil will work bottom line is it has been superceded by improved technology.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 91,850 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox
    

11Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:45 am

TheGreatMorten

TheGreatMorten
active member
active member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I seem now to hit 20-25,000 miles a year.

Oils have changed so much since Ks were designed.

I don't put mineral oil in anything. While it works its got to be changed a lot more frequently because it doesn't have long life. Diesel cars in 80s were change oil 2,000 miles although that was partly to do with fuel quality. My Honda fours back in the 70s were change at 2,000 miles running on mineral oil because that's all there was. Even then people fought over whether you used Castrol GTX or Duckhams.

Semi and fully synthetic oils last much longer and retain their quality better. For the extended life you need fully synthetic and then you can go for very long service intervals. This works for fleet users because it extended costly service intervals.

I don't get hung up on the brand name, love those debates where 'mine goes 0.002mph faster with X brand or I get 0.5 miles extra per tank of fuel. Reality is none of us will notice the difference and it may be the case its actually the same oil with a different name on the container. You can go to Lidl, Aldi, Halfords or many more and buy oil that meets the spec.

Manufacturing tolerances have improved and improved engine management has allowed closer tolerances meaning thinner oils are needed hence 5 and 10W for cold starts. On old school, old or well worn engines 5W may struggle to get up oil pressure. The upper 30 may be too thin when engine is hot and clearances open up a little, in extreme hot you will see 50W specd.

There are endless heated discussions on oils but while mineral oil will work bottom line is it has been superceded by improved technology.

The oil i want to try is the Moto Tech 10w-50

It have been given full points on Performance, start up protection and power from ELF.









They write the following:


MOTO 4 TECH is a new generation, high technology



lubricant guaranteeing high endurance performance

and improves the power of your engine. It guarantees

an optimal cleanliness of all parts of the engine and

ensures smooth and slick gear changes.





SYNTHETIC TECHNOLOGY OIL



API SL • JASO MA2

    

12Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
K bikes have a dry clutch so there's no need to buy "motorcycle" oils for them. Motorcycle oils are formulated for bikes that have a wet clutch/transmission that shares oil with the motor. You're better off using car oil since it has more friction modifiers that aren't good for a wet clutch.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

13Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:18 am

BobT

BobT
Life time member
Life time member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I have used lots of oils and don't use the 5W as it seems too thin so I stick with 10W40 and 15W40. I found on 3 Ks so far that fully synthetic tends to weep very slightly on the engine covers and not sure why but it doesn't create an issue.


Spec is the important bit. A lot of the branded oils anyway are actually made by the big oil companies.
How can the oil be too thin when cold? You need to to get around the engine as quickly as possible to stop bits grinding together. 
Just for your information the 5 bit will only be when you start the bike, within 2 miles it will not be 5 anymore as it is getting warmer. When the oil is at full temperature the 40 or 50 bit is much thinner than the 5 is when cold.
The ideal oil would be the same viscosity (thickness) throughout the temperature range but it is too hard to make, it would probably be something like a 0w70!
All modern diesels now use a 5w30 and they are hard on the oil.

    

14Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:37 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
Because engine oil is more expensive by far Down Under than in Los Estados Unidos, I just go and buy the cheapo black bottle 5 litre jug of Great Western 20W50 mineral oil @ $24.95 on sale at Supa Cheap Auto or Autobarn and glug it into the red RS. Have done for yonks. I end up with enough left over to change the oil 'for free' after four oil changes with that extra litre because the bike doesn't use a drop between changes. I have stopped carrying spare oil on trips. It usually has under 5K kilometres when it gets dropped for the bike's typical year-long storage.

For my bikes in the US I am more particular, only partly because it's easier to find a wider choice and that is also less expensive, so it's 10W50 Motorex full synth (JASO MA2 spec) in the wet clutch jobbies, and then Mobil One 15W50 full synth 'car' oil for the dry clutch machines. I get the Motorex from a wholesaler in 25 litre jugs and thread a plastic tap to the barrel for easy pouring. The Mobil One is found at Walmart (I hate that place otherwise) for about $22 per 5 quart jug, on sale.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

15Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty The Dreaded Engine Oil Thread on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:17 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
I found this article somewhere and saved it. It clarifies a few things, and even though he/she is talking about an automotive 'weight' fully synthetic oil, it relates. I have no idea of the author's credentials. Let battle commence!

Why 0w40 is your friend.


If you are concerned about using Mobil 1 0w40 in the summer. This is only for information on the lower viscosity 0 weight oils and only applies to synthetic oils as I most certainly don't recommend anything else.

Forget about what you think the 0w and the 40 means for a moment and realize this: Viscosity (10w30, 0w40, etc.) is not the thickness of your oil. Viscosity is a fluid's resistance to deformation by stress. In other words, resistance to flow. Practically for the end-user, the numbering 
system for oils is archaic and limited. I've run into a few people that think 0 means the oil is thin at startup and 40 means that it thickens at normal operating temperature to protect better. I explain to them that would actually be catastrophic to engine protection, as an oil thickness of 0 is not thick enough and an oil thickness of 40 is not thin enough. The 0 and 40 are viscosities, but make things more confusing; the numbers don't have anything to do with each other, and also don't provide any insight into what the actual oil thickness is.

Let's get oil thickness at normal operating temperature out of the way, as that is very simple. First of all, thickness of moving oil is measured in centiStokes, or cS. Oil of any weight is formulated to provide optimal protection at the average normal operating temperature of most cars, 212°F. The ideal cS at this and every temperature for most cars is 10 cS. This means that Suzie's 10w30, Dave's 5w40, and Mike's 0w30 (at normal operating temperature) are all a thickness of 10 cS, which is perfect. The 10w, 5w, and 0w have no meaning when the engine is at operating temperature, though those numbers are the most important when it comes to protecting your engine.

The reason is that the most important time for your engine is at startup and before reaching operating temperature. See, the first number is the viscosity (remember, not the cS) when the engine is under normal operating temperature. 10w30 and 0w30 are relatively thicker and thinner compared to one another, but this doesn't mean 0w is too thin to protect. It is actually too thick. In fact, the thinnest engine oil you can find is too thick to protect properly before the engine reaches operating temperature. This is why they say 90% of engine wear occurs on startup. Let's take those two oils as an example on startup during a mild summer morning. Sitting at 75°F, you 
start your car. The 10w30 is going to have a cS of 75, while the 0w30 will have a cS of 40. Neither are yet running at our optimal 10 cS.

So remember this when you're pouring in that 0w40 for your next oil change. In the cold winter 0 weight is thin enough to flow even in conditions as low as -50°F, while heavier weights will flow much more slowly, or not at all. Your engine will thank you when the oil is thin enough to actually move and lubricate.
In the hot summer, even if you're in the desert, the 0 weight is definitely not going to be too thin, as our optimal 10cS thickness isn't even reached until the engine is 212°F. And as long as you're keeping your cooling system running right 
, the 30 or 40 viscosity will even out to a nice 10cS.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

16Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:49 pm

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
Use the cheapest ‘brand name’ 15w50 or 20w50 mineral that you can find and change it every 5k.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

17Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:32 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
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I met this guy once in a motorbike shop in western Massachusetts near where he lives.  I couldn't keep up, but it was very interesting. I've been reading his column in Cycle World (contrary to the name, it's not about bicycles) magazine for yonks.

Ask Kevin


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

18Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:27 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
If you have a lot of time on your hands, this site is a good read.  His data has changed my choice of oil for my engines.  Written by a mechanical engineer who apparently works in the aerospace industry, he has pretty good credentials and his approach to testing oil makes a lot of sense.

Be aware, this is written like an engineering research paper.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

I am now using 0W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability oil that I get at Walmart for $20 for a five quart jug.  It is one of the best rated oils in the study and the price is amazing.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

19Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:57 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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@Point-Seven-five wrote:Written by a mechanical engineer . . . Be aware, this is written like an engineering research paper.
I think his oil pressure performance ranking of Incredible should have indicated a higher performance value than his rank of Fantastic; furthermore, his omission of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious as a rank calls into question his entire data evaluation.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75T 68,000 miles
Engine Oil Usa-lo10
    

20Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:29 am

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
No doubt he knows his subject but I’ll stick to what I’ve used in bikes and cars over the years. Not lost a patient yet!
All those K’s with 200,300,400,500k+ on them must be fooked inside if they’ve been using 15w50 or 20w50 Wink
For my older boxers I use 20w50 and in the oil coooled GS 15w50 as per BM’s recommendations. Using thin synthetic oil is all well and good until it’s causing leaks from old seals.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

21Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:02 am

BobT

BobT
Life time member
Life time member
I love it when someone finds an "expert" who writes stuff on the internet. How do you know that it is not some spotty faces 13 year old who is just copying information from other places? One person puts a link up and before you know it, he has a great reputation.
Oil companies employ thousands of oil experts but people do not want to believe them.
How many catastrophic engine failures does one person know hat can be attributed to a poor quality oil? Probably none. Everybody tells you that their choice in oil is the best because the engine has not blown up because of bad oil, therefore any oil must be best.
Comments like "They designed this engine to run on x oil" are just plain stupid. No one ever designed and engine for its oil, they designed it to power something and used the most modern oil that was available at that time. That same engine in later iterations will specify a later spec oil, but it is the same engine.
The oil serves on primary purpose, to hold the two bits of rubbing metal apart, the oil has no idea if those bits of metal are in a 1930s tractor or a modern Ducati.
People ar so keen to show their knowledge that they specify a particular make of oil as being better than another make of the same spec, bollocks, there may be some difference, but it will be less than 0.001%, and the engine will never notice that.
For those of you who want to use the same old 40 year old oil specs that your bike had when it was made could also go back to 40 year old tyre specs and ride with a 40 year old helmet.
Rant over.  Very Happy

    

22Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:07 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
It really boils down to this:

@BobT wrote:How many catastrophic engine failures does one person know hat can be attributed to a poor quality oil?

Changing oil is much more important than brand.

The main reason I use synthetic is because you can extend the change interval.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

23Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:19 am

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
According to this chap it should be changed at 5k miles regardless. Right or wrong I’ve always changed my cars oil and filter at 5k miles/kms as it’s easy to remember.
The later bikes the same at 5k kms but the old airheads I do every 2000 miles. €30 for filter and oil isn’t much to keep them in good order. 
When I was a m/c courier we changed oil and filters once a month. Tyres didn’t last more than 2-3 months!


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

24Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:26 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
All I can say is read as much of it as you can.  There is a lot there, a lot more than a 13 year would write on the subject.  The arguments are methodical and logical and outside of his rating categories(I have heard engineers with doctorates from prestigious engineering schools use similar terms) his writing is very well done.

I suspect he is as serious about the subject as many of us are about our machines, he does say that he builds engines for hot rods and race cars, so I have to believe he is as interested in the capability of the oil he uses as we are.

Unlike the marketing departments at the oil companies, or the editorial departments of magazines, he takes no money, product, or assistance from the oil companies.  He builds his own test equipment and maintains and calibrates it on his own.  Personally, I find the fact that he has purchased a couple hundred samples of oil over a long period of time and taken the effort to document the test results fairly impressive.

Since the purpose of oil is to provide a long term protective film between metal parts his test protocol of taking the film to ultimate failure makes sense to me, at least.  His test quantifies the failure point in an easily compared number.  He also takes data at a couple temperature points to see how the oil reacts to severe operating conditions.  He also correlates his test data to observed race engine failures.  

Like I said, read some of what he has written.  But then, I realize this is an oil thread.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

25Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:14 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
Engine Oil 112350  it's information for people who are interested.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

26Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:51 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Engine Oil 2xkhmo


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

27Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Engine oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:43 am

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Why use 80's Dino oil? 

Because it's cheapest and does the job. 

Castrol gtx 20w50 has proven itself to me. Although it's an old name,  it meets a newer standard now. For just about ever you could get it at autobahn, when on special 5lt for $10. it's a good name. When my stock is out I'll go Dino,  Castrol 10w40 and see if fuel economy changes. 

An example; my previous car I bought with 300,000km, I got it to 630,000km with original engine, changed the oil every 50,000km. The last 130,000km it had no oil change,  it eventually failed from a non lube problem. I normally change oil at 10,000km intervals,  but on this car at 50,000 since I fitted a bypass filter to it. In the end I didn't bother with changes as I was getting tired of it after eight or so years.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

28Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Engine oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:24 am

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Example 2;

An ex neighbour of mine from years ago clocked up 750,000km, original engine, on his kingswood, and was still going good. He used Valvoline xld 20w50 and did normal services every 10,000km, but he did one thing different. When he got home, while engine warm,  before a service, he would put one litre of diesel in the sump and turn the engine off after five minutes. His plan was to drive it to Holden if he got it to 1,000,000km and see what they would offer him for it. As a joke I said "your car could last longer than holden" five years later it wasn't a joke but reality. I'll have to drop in one day for an update.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

29Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:39 am

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
Keeping the inside of the motor clean is important as otherwise you are just contaminating your fressh oil with shiticles and feeding it to the bearings and cams, lifters etc. Get the inside clean with diesel/oil or atf/oil and then just change the oil regularly. Beats me how so many love their machines but then skimp on oil changes!


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

30Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:10 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Used oil analysis results indicate that the additive package in oil depletes through heat generated when the engine is running.  Based on how fast the additives are depleted, most oil is designed to last about 10-15,000 miles.  This gives the user a safety margin for severe use if they change at 5-7,000 mile intervals.

My father-in-law never changed the oil in any of his vehicles, saying that he didn't need to because he never kept them more than two years and 25,000 miles.  In the 90's he had a car that he kept longer.  At about 35,000 miles he had a stuck valve.  When we pulled the valve cover the sludge looked like someone had laid a half inch of tar on everything in there.

I used to drive 60,000 miles a year doing sales.  I changed oil at 7,500 mile intervals with dino.  I kept my cars for 150,000 miles and then gave them to my kids who routinely drove them to 300,000 miles at which time the body was usually in rough shape, but the engine still ran well.  My last sales ride was a 2001 Honda Accord that I kept to 375,000 miles when I sold it in 2012 to a friend who still has it with over 500,000 on it now.   I'm pretty sure a modern engine will last a lot longer than the rest of the vehicle if the oil is changed.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

31Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Engine oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:01 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
I've seen a new car that almost died of sludge before it even got to 100,000km. But a bypass filter makes a big difference. Every 25,000km I changed the toilet roll filter,  which then needed almost a litre of oil to top the oil level up again (it also used 1lt every 10,000km) The engine was as clean as a whistle. The oil was never black,  just a clean yellow,  even after 130,000km without an oil change. I now believe with a bypass filter you can safely do oil changes at 50,000km intervals, and I will state that my experience with bypass filters comes to a grand total of only two cars and one tractor. Some manufacturers want us to change their products more than we need to. 

Example 3; a mate of mine who used to own a fleet of trucks used to put diesel oil in his petrol driven cars for years without problems, he said it keeps the engine cleaner,  which makes sense.



Last edited by daveyson on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

32Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:20 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
My 79 RX-7 was running fine when I sold it with 125,000 miles on it.  I never paid attention to the oil change interval.  Like most cars, it didn't burn oil.  But I used the low oil warning light as my indicator that it was time to change the oil. LOL.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

33Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:50 pm

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
I really don’t get it. We all want to keep these machines running as long as possible. We lavish time and money on new seals, parts and farkles yet there are still people who seem to think it’s a competition to get the most miles from their oil! All for the sake of $20-30 a year. 
It’s not big or clever Wink


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

34Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:08 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
There is something comforting about knowing your engine with 140,000 miles on it has been well maintained when you are halfway between Tupper Lake and Malone, NY in the Adirondacks at 10pm in a January snowstorm.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

35Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:27 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
+1 I'm with .75 regular maintenance with good quality products will save you grief in the long run. 
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

36Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:36 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Unless you run out of oil I don't think you'll have a catastrophic failure.  If you're lazy on oil changes some tolerances might get loose and you'll lose some compression or whatever but something like an engine seize seems extremely unlikely.

I'm not advocating sloppy maintenance though.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

37Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Engine oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:29 am

redrockmania

redrockmania
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Point-Seven-five for the 540ratblog reference you gave in post 18. I have read the blog and it makes fascinating reading regarding oil testing and engine oil temperatures, zinc as an additive, and, metal to metal PSI readings. It is good to have someone with real expertise in mechanical and chemical engineering actually use scientific method and specialised test equipment when oil testing and then release their data. Oil producers do not release test date and research methodology.
Damn - I swore I'd never post oil an oil thread!

    

38Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:41 am

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
I promised myself to spend a maximum 15 minutes on the ratblog, I failed badly. I'm planning on breaking that promise over the next few days too.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

39Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:38 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
I struggled to push past his tendency to big note himself, to reach and grasp an understanding of the depth of his scope for myself. I s'pose when you have to defend yourself against the many 'troils' out there it's gunna come off that way.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

40Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Hi Two Wheels Better, what do you think of his depth of scope? thanks


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

41Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:29 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Go to the end of the epic download where the numbered article are.  No need to slog through the test results of the 220 different oils he's tested.  A lot of the articles start with boilerplate about his background and test protocols.  Zoom through that and there are some nice articles following.  Thought provoking if nothing else.

I've read his stuff a couple times now, and did some reading from other sources(SAE, API, ASTM) on some of his ideas.  His stuff makes sense to me.  He's pretty much sold me on Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30(#21) for the Bricks and the 5w20(#11) for my cage.  I like the idea of twenty bucks for a 5 quart jug at Walmart for one of the toughest oil films you can buy.  Some of the higher rated oils cost that much for a quart/liter.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

42Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Oil on Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:01 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Hi point seven five

You might guess my next question, can you keep us posted with your new oil, any leaks which is OK and understandable considering it's thinner. I've avoided oil threads until now, I'll look at it again now too.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

43Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 am

BobT

BobT
Life time member
Life time member
This is getting stupid. Keep us posted, if the bike won't start because the oil is not much good then tell us. Or can you strip the engine down in 200,000 miles and let us know what the wear was like? It is oil FFS.
There is a video on youtube of a chap running an engine on chip fat, and it works.
There are stories of people never doing an oil change for 100,000 miles with no problem.
Are you expecting magic fairy dust oil that will transform your 40 year old bike into a new Ducati?

    

44Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:29 am

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
If 5w30 was correct for this motor then surely it would be the recommended grade. This chap actually states that a heavier grade is needed by aircooled motors and to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled. The recommended grade for these in Western Europe is 10w40 in winter and 15/20w50 in summer. The film strength on this 30 grade better be good otherwise you wont be protecting anything if it overhears. Seeing that many K’s have 100’s of thousands of miles on them, how many more 100’s will wonder oil do and how many of us will actually use the bike for those miles? 
My RS has done 55k miles from new. If I last another 25 years doing 2k/year which is optimistic then my RS will have approx 100k on it when I’m 80! Do I really need wonder oil or to be even bothered about it?! Just throw in some 20w50 every 3-5k and free your mind of another oil saga.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

45Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:57 am

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Hey Bob,  I only asked if he notices any leaks after switching to a thinner oil. All that stuff in your post,  you just made that up so you could object to it. I never said you can't go 100,000 miles without an oil change,  I even said I did 130,000km without one on this thread. By the way,  there are examples of everything on the net,  that doesn't mean everything is true.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

46Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:14 am

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
And yep, that makes sense if he recommends heavier oil for air cooled engine's to cope with the extra heat.

One of the things that impressed me about bricks is that they are very rare in the bike world, for the car like characteristic of being both water cooled and dry clutch,  so you can use car oil.



Last edited by daveyson on Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

47Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:02 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
@BobT wrote:This is getting stupid. Keep us posted, if the bike won't start because the oil is not much good then tell us. Or can you strip the engine down in 200,000 miles and let us know what the wear was like? It is oil FFS.
There is a video on youtube of a chap running an engine on chip fat, and it works.
There are stories of people never doing an oil change for 100,000 miles with no problem.
Are you expecting magic fairy dust oil that will transform your 40 year old bike into a new Ducati?
What is your problem?


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

48Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:23 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@nobbylon wrote:to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled.

How so? K bikes are water cooled.  Period. As evidence of this they have large radiators that put off tons of heat and have no fins on the engine to dissipate heat.

You may now return to the oil thread.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

49Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:29 am

BobT

BobT
Life time member
Life time member
@Point-Seven-five wrote:
@BobT wrote:This is getting stupid. Keep us posted, if the bike won't start because the oil is not much good then tell us. Or can you strip the engine down in 200,000 miles and let us know what the wear was like? It is oil FFS.
There is a video on youtube of a chap running an engine on chip fat, and it works.
There are stories of people never doing an oil change for 100,000 miles with no problem.
Are you expecting magic fairy dust oil that will transform your 40 year old bike into a new Ducati?
What is your problem?
None at all just laughing at those who go to extremes to find some thing this won't make any difference at all to their lives, the longevity of their bikes, or their pockets.
Everything on this thread must be correct as it is on the internet!  Rolling Eyes

    

50Back to top Go down   Engine Oil Empty Re: Engine Oil on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:38 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
@nobbylon wrote:If 5w30 was correct for this motor then surely it would be the recommended grade. This chap actually states that a heavier grade is needed by aircooled motors and to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled. The recommended grade for these in Western Europe is 10w40 in winter and 15/20w50 in summer. The film strength on this 30 grade better be good otherwise you wont be protecting anything if it overhears. Seeing that many K’s have 100’s of thousands of miles on them, how many more 100’s will wonder oil do and how many of us will actually use the bike for those miles? 
My RS has done 55k miles from new. If I last another 25 years doing 2k/year which is optimistic then my RS will have approx 100k on it when I’m 80! Do I really need wonder oil or to be even bothered about it?! Just throw in some 20w50 every 3-5k and free your mind of another oil saga.
As a matter of fact the film strength on the Quaker State oil is pretty good.  The film strength number of 113,377 psi at 230F(normal operating temperature)puts it in the top 10% of the oils tested.  Not only that, but at 275F(overheating temperature) the film strength only loses 3.7% of it's value down to 109,211 psi which is better than 191 of the oils when they were tested at the 230F temperature.  In other words, the Quaker State film strength when overheated is better than 191 other oils at normal operating temperature.

As the author states, the film strength is the only real spec that tells how the oil is going to prevent wear.  Viscosity is resistance to flow, and the author says that higher viscosity causes more wear at start up because the resistance to flow starves wear points farther from the pump.  Centistokes is the unit of resistance to flow.  He has posted these numbers, and strangely, the centistokes value has little relationship to SAE viscosity numbers.  The Quaker State oil has good numbers here as well(thin at start, but not overly thin at high temperature), and like the film strength, viscosity stays more uniform as temperatures rise, doing a better job of maintaining the hydraulic wedge between parts. 

If you don't have the time to read the first third of the article, just skip to the numbered articles in the last half.  The titles are pretty self explanatory, and if you skip the resume and testing methods boilerplate at the start of some of the articles you can quickly get to the meat of the article. 

I think I will be making a list of the top 25 or 30 oils with their pressure ratings and viscosity numbers.  This is mostly for my own use, but I'll post it here for anyone who may be interested.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

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