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1Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:18 am

audibob

audibob
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Is the K1100 fuelling system capable of being euro 6 compliant, and if so, what needs to be done, costs etc

I really love the K100/1100 bike, and am reluctant to spend money on a newer bike just to 

comply with tightening emission laws.

I am taking my K100 to an mot station to get her "sniffed" just to see how far away she is  from current euro 6 

requirements.

Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

2Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:35 am

duck

duck
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I think the US versions of K1100s might do OK since they have a catalytic converter but I think the Euro bikes were non-cat.

It's easy to tell if a K1100 has a cat since it will have an O2/lambda sensor mounted in the exhaust on the top under the left peg plate.

K1100 emissions. U1LFN8M


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:43 am

audibob

audibob
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Thanks for that Duck.

Is there information on K1100 emissions with a cat fitted , with regards to being euro 6 compliant.

Also, could a UK K1100 be converted 

Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

4Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:15 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
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I am not aware of any difference in the engine management as in the Motronic unit.

A US exhaust with the lambda sensor in it is easy enough to get hold of, question is: is that a plug and play into a European model. I have little doubt about the physical fit- just get new rubber mounts and exhaust gaskets.

Not aware of any other items apart from making sure air filter is good and injectors in good shape.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

5Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:57 am

duck

duck
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There are cat and non-cat versions of both K1100 Motronics.

13611464649 Early Cat
13611464479 Early non-cat

13611464717 Late Cat
13617651599 Late non-cat

And the non-cat bike wiring doesn't have wiring for the sensor.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

6Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:06 am

duck

duck
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@audibob wrote:Thanks for that Duck.

Is there information on K1100 emissions with a cat fitted , with regards to being euro 6 compliant.

Also, could a UK K1100 be converted 

Bob
I've never tried it but you'd need a different Motronic, engine wiring harness, sensor and cat exhaust.  I THINK that the main wiring harness is the same though.

I don't know any numbers but I imagine it puts out less nasty gases than a non-cat bike.

If you look at the K1100 US marketing literature BMW was very proud that it was one of, if not the, first production bike with a cat.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

7Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
Early K100 has a fuel pressure sensor [as well as regulator] that has a vacuum pipe and an electrical connection. Removing it and blanking the vacuum pipe has no effect....

I wonder does the EU Motronic have a similar situation with the Lambda sensor but definitely needs to be checked. Anyone access to part nos? We already have odd ones in EU, I think Swiss or Danish Ks are tuned down and use different FICU/Motronic units.

Odds are main loom is the same with just a plug in for the sensor.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

8Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:24 am

duck

duck
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@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Early K100 has a fuel pressure sensor [as well as regulator] that has a vacuum pipe and an electrical connection. Removing it and blanking the vacuum pipe has no effect....

I wonder does the EU Motronic have a similar situation with the Lambda sensor but definitely needs to be checked. Anyone access to part nos? We already have odd ones in EU, I think Swiss or Danish Ks are tuned down and use different FICU/Motronic units.

Odds are main loom is the same with just a plug in for the sensor.

Ks have two wiring harnesses: one for the engine (that connects to the L-Jet or Motronic) and a main one for everything else.  The engine harness is the one with the lambda sensor - and is much easier to swap than the main one.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=0536-USA---89V2-BMW-K%201100%20LT%20(0526,%200536)&diagId=61_1080


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

9Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:47 am

Snod Blatter

Snod Blatter
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Don't bikes only go to Euro4? And Euro3 complicance seems enough to get around the ULEZ and hopefully other low emission zones when other cities follow suit.

I'll be amazed if you get anywhere near though, they burn too much oil for a start and cylinder head design seems to be a large part of bringing the emissions down to legal limits.


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850, '16 Z250SL
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

10Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:38 am

audibob

audibob
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TFL state that all bikes entering the ULEZ in London need to be Euro 3 compliant, not 6 .. my mistake

ie manufactured after 2007 .

We can assume most uk  and European cities will follow with  clean air rules at some point in the near future.

The time has come  for me to find a newer bike to travel around Europe on, or just avoid  the clean air zones.

Will I keep my K100 ?  Definately,   I have invested a lot of time and money in her. to let her go.

The newer bike will only be for summer and trips abroad.


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

11Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:20 am

Ringfad

Ringfad
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Life time member
Just to finish of the thread

Motronic 2.1 and 2.2 ignition looms have an extra connector I assume this is for the Lambda sensor.

Pictured is a 2.2 loom, I have a 2.1 loom with the same connector. So to convert you need an exhaust with Lambda sensor. correct ignition loom and correct Motronic.

K1100 emissions. Igniti10


K1100 emissions. Loom10


__________________________________________________
K1100 emissions. Ir-log10

   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)  ;BMW;  K1100LT (Swiss) soon to be an RS
    

12Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:49 pm

Stumpy

Stumpy
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There is a shop that does emissions testing for motorcycles, it is near the Olympic stadium, they charge £150 for the rest, if your bike passes, they inform TFL and you get an exemption from the charge.

    

13Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:25 am

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
active member
Hi all, keen to see if anyone had any progress with this? I'm about to undertake the same challenge. I spoke to the garage in the east end before purchasing my k1100rs and they assured me they will get any bike to pass, might be wishful thinking but it's almost impossible to find the standard emissions results of a k bike even the US version results are hard to source.

    

14Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:31 am

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
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From some research I found this journal that says with an uncontrolled cat i.e no sensors, they managed to get nox to 0.02

Link below check pages 18/19

http://archives.bmw-club.org.uk/Journal%20PDFs/1990s/1991/1991%20April.pdf

    

15Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty K1100 emissions on Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:00 am

audibob

audibob
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Platinum member
I would love to see the Transport for london  nox  results from a well set up K1100 with a cat fitted.

My k100 ticks all the boxes for me, apart from emissions.

Having to spend money on a newer bike just to pass the new regulations, is a bummer, albeit a 

" good for the environment " bummer.

If someone in the uk with a suitable well set up k1100 would be prepared to get his bike tested, then

I would be willing to pay something towards the cost .

Paying for a good clean K1100LT that passes the TFL test would be a good investment for me

to take abroad.

Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

16Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
active member
My intentions are to get my k1100rs to pass the tfl test, if you check out the link I sent over it might actually be achievable.

My Instagram page for the build is under bmwk1100caferacer, only just bought the bike but I might take you up on the offer of a contribution!

    

17Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:56 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
@Ringfad wrote:Just to finish of the thread

Motronic 2.1 and 2.2 ignition looms have an extra connector I assume this is for the Lambda sensor.

Pictured is a 2.2 loom, I have a 2.1 loom with the same connector. So to convert you need an exhaust with Lambda sensor. correct ignition loom and correct Motronic.

K1100 emissions. Igniti10


K1100 emissions. Loom10
This seems to be suggesting all that is needed are the following:
Exhaust with CAT and sensor.
Sub loom to connect sensor to the plug as above....or does it need a 'new' ignition loom?
CAR 2.1 or 2.2 Motronic.

Otherwise I have to wait until end of 2023 to have my K100RS legal in ULEZ..but if I could make the K1100LT legal I would.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

18Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
active member
The journal suggests an exhaust with cat and no sensor, the tests it refers to are for an uncontrolled cat and the tests showed an nox of 0.02 which is way inside the tfl requirements, although I'm not sure if that is a realistic figure.

    

19Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
active member
Like I said I spoke to the garage in east london and they assured me they could get the bike to pass and when asked they said they would normally weld a Cat on to the bike which the journal backs up as possible and importantly passable.

But can it be that easy...

    

20Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm

jbt

jbt
Silver member
Silver member
Check the swiss version specs, they're the lowest emissions versions for the K11. Catalytic exhaust and Lambda, specific Motronic unit, specific carb ramp.
About 80 HP instead of 100, but who cares?

    

21Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:31 pm

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
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I read somewhere it was only 60hp? Maybe I'll do a google session and try find the emission laws they had at the time to see if its inside the ULEZ. I'm any case I'll keep you all posted, getting the bike mot'd soon hopefully and ill take it round to the guys in east London.

However if I can get away without a controlled cat and doing the conversion I will likely buy the below to attach a generic cat and aftermarket end can.

http://www.bskspeedworks.co.uk/k-collector.html

This is a lot of ifs and buts for me, I'm basing this info on the journal I shared earlier. But if anyone can see why it might nit work with an uncontrolled cat let me know so I can make sure I'm covering all bases.

    

22Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:36 pm

jbt

jbt
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Silver member
No 60, 80 or 85. It's my daily driver and you hardly can notice that it"s not full power, it just does not rev to the red zone.
It"s not difficult to find a used cat exhaust for a K11 and pretty cheap. Most of the wannabe custom creators put them apart to replace it with a k100 header set and a noisy can.

    

23Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:07 pm

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
active member
Thanks for the insight, I'll keep you posted. I dont want to buy twice and dont like the look if the standard exhaust but then I am conscious it may run better with the OEM cat set up.

Trade offs either way but I'll speak with the guys in East London and see what they suggest I'm out of the country for the whole of November so wont be able to do this side of xmas

    

24Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Update on Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:03 am

Mazzer

Mazzer
active member
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Whilst I cant get my k1100 tested until December when I return from my honeymoon. I did find this on bikechatforums.com

A guy has had his 90s honda r1100 pass the ULEZ test. He says it was tight but as a carb engine of similar size to the k1100 there is hope.

BMW also responded to my email and as expected have no data on the year of bike. But it was worth asking the question.

    

25Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:47 am

Ringfad

Ringfad
Life time member
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I now have a K1100LT (Swiss version)

Only difference appears to be Motronic, Exhaust (with Lambda sensor) and Ignition sub loom.

Not sure of performance as not had it on the road yet (clutch needed to replaced - was down to 2mm !!)

Olaf it is a ABS 1 model  otherwise we could have swapped parts


__________________________________________________
K1100 emissions. Ir-log10

   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 51K Km     ;BMW; K1100RS Red 1993 70k miles  ;BMW; K100 16V Black (ex ElectricMonk)  ;BMW;  K1100LT (Swiss) soon to be an RS
    

26Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:49 am

Mazzer

Mazzer
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Cool, does anyone know what the swiss emission regs even asked for at the time? Struggled to find it online or even what the bike achieved?

    

27Back to top Go down   K1100 emissions. Empty Re: K1100 emissions. on Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:16 pm

jbt

jbt
Silver member
Silver member
The swiss version also feature different throttle bodies. Diameter or less opening? I never checked.
I maybe have technical visit reports for swiss versions in my archives, I have to search for it. Bet the reg did also  concern   noise emission,  that appeared to be more severe than air emissins on some bikes.

    

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