BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty The six rivet issue on Mon May 13, 2019 9:01 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Friend of mine asked me about his noisy 85 K100. He thought it was the bottom end (right side Very Happy) but I suggested that it might be the output shaft since I'm vaguely familiar with that issue. It seems that that is his problem.

What happens if you just ignore it?

Although I've heard of this issue I've never had to deal with it. What are possible solutions? Replace with a later 12 rivet output shaft, correct?


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

2Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 13, 2019 9:30 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
Replacing it with a 12 rivet shaft is the usual option. They usually get louder and louder and sometimes the rivets shear. One of the guys here redrilled the holes midway and replaced the rivets with bolts, I think that shaft is in the engine Charlie has for the red frame monster and is yet to fire a shot.


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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

3Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 13, 2019 9:53 pm

Tesla13BMW

Tesla13BMW
Silver member
Silver member
My 86 k100 with 180k on it has the same issue. Chris at the BM shop in Brisbane said "start it and keep the revs up where it makes little noise and go, don't let it sit there and warm up".

For me, it is on the to do list after the young girl (12k) is back together.


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Brisbane, Australia. '86 K100RS
    

4Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 13, 2019 10:26 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
we did that bolt mod output shaft basket swap over to Gerty in 2014 rick , keep in mind I didn't have new barrel rubbers to replace so the old ones so the old ones went back in with some slight rotational movement.

I think Gertysoutput shaft basket is making some noises again now and as soon as I can get the red frame bike on the road ( with replacement output shaft basket - care of smithy ) I will be replacing gertys again for one I picked up from grahame jays (bega) which is still in good condition.

i'm convinced that as the output shaft barrel rubbers harden up and shrink a little , the slight movement it createsboth rotationally and laterally assists in the rivet wear . in additionto low idle revs.

when rebuilding the red frame motor I installed new barrel rubbers , which were asignificantly tighter fit to the barrel and output shaft vanes.


ill post pics of the bolt mod after I get it pulled apart , im guessing the bolt mod has been in place 100,000 klms or more by now , with many thanks to Alby .



edit

that's interesting tesla . when I spoke to chris in 2014 he claimed he had never heard of the issue before , and looked at me in a very strange way , disbelievingly in fact .

oh well , we all learn something new , along the path


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OThe six rivet issue Au-log10
    

5Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 pm

Tesla13BMW

Tesla13BMW
Silver member
Silver member
I think Chris says what he thinks people want to hear! He said he'd done a number of them but they are just not economic as if you're taking of the transmission etc you should do the clutch and rear main seal and given the water / oil pump is being removed this should also be rebuilt. That's along the lines of what he said to me along with the "start it and ride away".


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Brisbane, Australia. '86 K100RS
    

6Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 20, 2019 3:35 am

fahrt

fahrt
New member
New member
I'm the friend that Duck mentions at the top of this thread. The bike is an '85 K100RS with about 80k miles on it (broken odometer, of course). I rescued it from a young woman in Santa Cruz California who had dropped it so many times the duct tape holding the mirrors on was an inch thick. The bike sat out in the weather for two years and needed attention. I took it off her hands for $150US, cleaned it up and turned it into a somewhat presentable naked bike (from a distance... if you squint).

It's something of a relief that the engine noise I'm hearing is an output shaft issue rather than a crankshaft problem as I had originally suspected. And yet it's kind of unbelievable that the engine could have gone into production with such a potentially expensive flaw. I wonder if the engineers were the same ones who crashed that space probe into Mars.

Has anyone experienced or seen the result of the output shaft rivets failing or wearing out completely? Is there some sort of catastrophic bang at some point? Or does the noise simply get louder and the drum hammers away until it wears out the drive gear? I imagine all of the rivets might shear off and the drum would still stay relatively in place. But then you'd have rivet shards in your oil and that's less than desirable. And what is the best way to locate a good used 12-rivet shaft, anyway, when everyone else with a 6-rivet motor is searching for one?

I've only just got the bike back into riding condition this weekend so I plan to put a few miles on it while I contemplate how/whether to address the noise.

Many thanks in advance for any insights, advice, suggestions, insults, etc.

The six rivet issue 2iuole1

    

7Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 20, 2019 4:37 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
My Ks have 6 rivet shafts in, RT has about 90k miles, the 'new' RS has just under 30k miles having sat in a boat shed for 17 years with very little use.

I just change oil and will deal with it if it becomes an issue in either.

My thought is leave everything and then go in at some point and do the lot.


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1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now91,850 miles
1983 K100RS 0011175 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox
    

8Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 20, 2019 6:50 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Scroll down to the Time for the engine inspection section of this renovation photo essay to learn about another output shaft noisemaker.

How about posting a YouTube recording of the sound?


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1995 K75T 68,000 miles
The six rivet issue Usa-lo10
    

9Back to top Go down   The six rivet issue Empty Re: The six rivet issue on Mon May 20, 2019 7:26 am

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Silver member
Silver member
Temporary solution dept:

Given the princely sum you paid for the bike...

I replaced a 6 rivet with a 12 rivet
While I was looking at the 6 rivet one, there indeed was a little 2mm?? play...we'll assume was the cause of the noise.

Being a tight arse, I decided to get a big flat punch firmly held in a vice and another big punch (end is tapered) , pound hammer and ubiquitous reluctant assistant (13 year old son) and gave each of the rivets a "good whack". One side of the rivet is flat the other has a hole... all quite obvious)

There is no play - the rivets now widened. One day, if desperate, I might use it.

Not sure how long it will last. Optimistically, the output shaft can't be likely to immediately regress into play (surely the rivets will be much the same as before and any widening of the space around the rivet in the shaft is now filled with squashed rivet).

Here's hoping

Make sure some decent loctite is used around the outside edges of the two big bearings to stop them moving in the lower engine block (there is a special word for this - Laitch or Duck will oblige...spalling, fretting??) - I had some wear in mine).

You could have this done in a day... or years - other K bikes might when appear in driveway in the mean time.

Guy

    

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