BMW K bikes (Bricks)

You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]


1Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 6:52 am

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Gold member
Gold member
I was helping my parents clear out in prep for moving to retirement village. My father being a British migrant electronics nut who had done Nasho in the RAF (Boscombe Down) happened to have some old dials.

One caught my eye and is now in my possession: a rev counter from a Handley Page Victor bomber from the late 1940s ... retired in 1993 (now that's longevity).

It's a cool looking old dial. It has single positive and negative screw inputs on the rear. 

Can I use them on my K100 bitsa bike? Am thinking of using a thick flat piece of aluminium sheet for speedo and revs.

My father was saying that they are very sensitive and that I would probably blow it with too much input. 

Q: what is the input value / voltage for the rev counter?

Q2: What wires must be attached for the bike to start? I previous tried to start the bike without the speedo etc attached... now go... but obviously not everything is needed.

Thanks for any help 

Guy

    

2Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
If the cluster is off then you can start the bike if you pull the clutch in. (Provided the clutch switch is working.)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 10:51 am

chris846

chris846
Life time member
Life time member
Starting without any knowledge of the likely input of the gauge, I'd look to use a signal generator to carefully try it first. Maybe the gauge is analogue (responds to a variable voltage - not a pulse) who knows?

It'll be possible to build a circuit to take the K100 input and produce a signal that drives your gauge, but I think you've got yourself a bit of a 'project' there!


__________________________________________________
The Longest Lunch
    

4Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 11:20 am

indian036

indian036
Life time member
Life time member
My ex-RAF aircraft engineer friend (1952-1966) thinks the Victor strategic jet bomber, first flight December 1952, had a 115V AC electrical generation system. Obviously, with that base you can easily get anything from ~150V DC downwards and 115V AC downwards, and only slightly more effort to go upwards. 
Just a + and - terminal suggests a DC power source with enough grunt to drive the gauge innards with a superimposed wave or pulse to give a ‘data’ input to generate a proportional gauge response. Alternatively, a pulsing DC, also with enough grunt to drive the gauge. 
Typically, it doesn’t take much current to drive a gauge, but the internal impedance can be set so that whatever input voltage you want can be accommodated. 
That’s a surmise rather than a statement with authority. 

Hope someone can go further. 

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Newest toy, slightly non-original
    

5Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 11:41 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I'm going to guess that the signal level is going to be on the millivolt level.  You could try connecting to the headphone output of your computer and get a signal from an audio generator.  Start with the signal at minimum and bring it up slowly. 

Being a one-of-a kind, I would spend a lot of time on the web finding out as much as possible about antique avionics before I put any power to it.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

6Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 11:55 am

chris846

chris846
Life time member
Life time member
Just a thought - I didn't think aeroplane engines revved that high?


__________________________________________________
The Longest Lunch
    

7Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 2:12 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
If it's off the APU then it could be hitting as high as 20,000RPM. Piccies, Guy?


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

8Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 8:15 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
Did a tiny (and I mean tiny) bit of research about aircraft RPM gauges. Electrical gauges used a motor-generator principle whereby an electrical motor attached to the engine and driven by the crankshaft, generated an AC wave that was transferred to the gauge. The gauge had a motor inside that responded to the AC drive signal.

This is somewhat the same principle used by the BMW. You'll have to verify this information as being correct for your bomber gauge.

Schematics for the BMW OEM circuits


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

9Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Tue May 14, 2019 8:40 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Sounds like they used synchronous motors to replace the cable in an eddy current speedometer.  This would make sense in an airplane as the routing from the sender to cockpit panel would be easier and more reliable with wire than with a rotating cable.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

10Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Wed May 15, 2019 2:43 am

Basic2

Basic2
Platinum member
Platinum member
@GF Wollongong wrote:I was helping my parents clear out in prep for moving to retirement village. My father being a British migrant electronics nut who had done Nasho in the RAF (Boscombe Down) happened to have some old dials.

One caught my eye and is now in my possession: a rev counter from a Handley Page Victor bomber from the late 1940s ... retired in 1993 (now that's longevity).

It's a cool looking old dial. It has single positive and negative screw inputs on the rear. 

Can I use them on my K100 bitsa bike? Am thinking of using a thick flat piece of aluminium sheet for speedo and revs.

My father was saying that they are very sensitive and that I would probably blow it with too much input. 

Q: what is the input value / voltage for the rev counter?

Q2: What wires must be attached for the bike to start? I previous tried to start the bike without the speedo etc attached... now go... but obviously not everything is needed.

Thanks for any help 

Guy
Hi Guy,
Try contacting the HARS at Albion Park - they may have some information on typical voltage levels to drive the tachometer.

The Victor was a jet engine plane - what does the tachometer redline at?

Richard.


__________________________________________________
K100 Basic 2
11/1987 6308319K100CJ
Marakesh Red
    

11Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Wed May 15, 2019 6:58 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
@robmack wrote:Did a tiny (and I mean tiny) bit of research about aircraft RPM gauges.  Electrical gauges used a motor-generator principle whereby an electrical motor attached to the engine and driven by the crankshaft, generated an AC wave that was transferred to the gauge.  The gauge had a motor inside that responded to the AC drive signal.
It's called 'autosyn' and was originally developed by the Pioneer Instrument Company. Depending on the usage and manufacturer autosyn voltages seem to have varied between 26 vac and 115 vac. One of my current RL jobs involves simulating an aircraft fitted with a panel full of autosyn gauges running at 26vac with a 400Hz sine wave imposed on it as the signal carrier.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

12Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Fri May 17, 2019 9:58 pm

TacKler

TacKler
Life time member
Life time member
Not being an E & I guy and only having limited aircraft avionics knowledge, I would suggest that the +ve and -ve terminals are for the instrument lighting.  There would likely have been a little shroud above the instrument with either red/white light and the instrument would have back lighting as well.  

Not being all that familiar with the UK aircraft standards but if it was NATO/north American then would have been 28VDC.  And yes as Bill suggests then 115VAC is the AC component.  From memory the last aircraft type I was involved with was 28VDC for just about everything and a handful of avionics requiring 115VAC, usually various radio or nav items.  

The battery bus (28VDC) had a few essentials powered of it including cockpit lighting and allowing enough for an engine start which bought the generator online. In some ways similar to our K bikes.  I was always worried about overheating the battery and causing thermal runaway.  

The Valiant, Victor and Vulcan were the backbone of the RAF V Bomber force against those nasty Russkies back in the day with the Victor being the last serving after conversion to tankers, retiring in the early nineties.


__________________________________________________
Red 1991 K75S
    

13Back to top Go down   Rev gauge specs Empty Re: Rev gauge specs on Fri May 17, 2019 10:07 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Pictures would be nice. We could probably give you a definitive answer then.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum