BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:58 am

KamilJ

KamilJ
New member
New member
Hey guys! 
I keep on having a problem while downshifting, usually from 4th-3rd, but also upshifting. I am new to bikes in general so it hurts me, even more, when I hear my clutch cranking while trying to put it in gear because as far I know and I feel it is in a good shape so I feel like I am destroying it... and most of all i feel in danger while driving fast and it happens. When i shift the pedal feels sharp and well lubricated. like a good maintenance gun. I recently changed my clutch cable but I had the same problem before. I do all the maintenance myself so feels even worse as this is the only problem I have. also happens while upshifting to the second gear but this one might be my lazy footwork.

First thought was that it's simply an old bike so the amount of slack for the new riders is short. I just have to do it the right way. So I figured the number of revs might be not correct. as I might still not be used to motorcycle engine - in a car, it's "2200" or somewhere right above 3000 when having fun. So I read on a forum the guys ride between 5k-7k and that's what the engine likes. I am trying to figure out the final drive ratio and simply on what revs to change gears upwards. I usually keep 1st and 2nd on 3k and then 3rd to 3-5k up to 80kmh.
the question is silly but I have no one on a K bike around: how do you shift? what revs?

I do rev-matching while downshifting. do you? 

or it might not be the case at all?

thanks!
Worship

    

2Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:50 am

moriarti

moriarti
Silver member
Silver member
Hi first things first,please enter the bike details including VIN number/mileage on the signature strip this will enable the brains
on the forum to give accurate advice.Have you set the clutch cable correctly?? if not all sorts of problems will occur.Should you have local contact with experienced riders ask if they can   
help out.Hopefully its rider error and not the clutch splines that need servicing  Rolling Eyes cheers


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

3Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:00 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
These are symptoms that often indicate a maladjusted clutch or the need for a transmission input shaft spline lube, as moriarti has indicated. Determine if there is any play in the shifter, too. Tell us here how long you've had the moto, how many miles are on it and how many miles you've logged on it.

You're likely to be able to repair this yourself.



Last edited by Laitch on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Fake Neutral Gear Usa-lo10
    

4Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 am

KamilJ

KamilJ
New member
New member
0103584K75S

86' K75S, 
all with the book - 7,5 cm down and 2-3mm free play. 1510mm long. also, I changed the clutch handle with it.
it has 150k on it. i've put about 1k, it's my first season. 
It's been maintained for 90k in Switzerland and then in Poland for the rest. 


it is softer than previously I have to admit. but when pulled and on gear, I do not feel it's dragging (the cable does not feel too loose so the clutch touches the plates)

I did not check the gearbox oil yet! neither I had a chance to look at the shaft spine. and i will check on the free play on the shifter then! i only though it's often a problem as I went through some google search and "fake neutral" indicated this problem with poor shifting. i was wondering if there is an opinion that the bike isn't easy to handle for the begginers. 

i will go through mechanics and write you in the evening. thanks a lot! 

    

5Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:16 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
You need to be very positive with the shifts, short shifts work OK on the Japanese bikes but the Getrag gearboxes don't take well to lazy shifts. Also as said the missed shifts can be a result of dry splines on the clutch shaft.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

6Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:16 pm

Woodie

Woodie
Life time member
Life time member
Definitely check your gearbox oil level.  I checked mine recently and had to add about 100 ml or so (there was no measuring involved).  Not much but I think it has made a bit of a difference in shifting.  I usually shift at about 4k rpm's when going up through the gears and always blip the throttle when down shifting -  a small blip if I'm slowing down slowly and heavier if I'm engine braking.  Rick is spot on about lazy shifts and I believe Robmack has previously described the feel of the early Getrag transmissions as 'tractor like'.  Bring everything up to spec - fluids, adjustments, etc. and then see where you are at.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT
52667
"Keep your stick on the ice.  We're all in this together."  Red Green
    

7Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:03 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
As noted above, false neutrals from 4->3 and 3->2 are usually a symptom of the need for a clutch spline lube.

Rick also has a point in that K bikes need to be shifted with authority.  You shouldn't be stomping on the shift lever though.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

8Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:17 pm

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Gold member
Gold member
Do follow all of the advice so far...

I remember reading an article where the (female if I am correct) went to great lengths describing the benefits of applying (a little) pressure to gear selector pedal before pulling the clutch and going ahead with the gear change (ie. full pressure and movement). 

Also, in an English classic bikes magazine, the happy owner of a R75 described the gearbox as "agricultural".

I occasionally get false neutrals between 4 and 5 - I can only blame myself for a half hearted effort on the pedal.

GF

    

9Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Fake neutral on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Silver member
Silver member
Hi 
Service your bike then ride. You're new to riding so in six months it will be better, before long you'll be doing this on auto pilot. Different tips work for different people and different bikes. Try changing at 3000rpm and a few others. Don't let the revs drop.  Try quick changes,  slow changes. Try with the clutch lever just half in. Try feeling the gear leaver in, instead of force,  but with pressure,  I know,  that's an oxymoron. The first BMW I rode had no problem at all, but I still get false with mine now sometimes, I don't care I just have a second go at it. Try different boots.



Last edited by daveyson on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Boots.)


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

10Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:56 pm

Poupy

Poupy
active member
active member
As stated by many before, use the pedal to its full extent.
Also, and nobody apparently told it yet, when you change your gearbox oil, disobey the instruction manual and use some 75w140. It makes a hell of a difference on those bmw rough gearboxes.

    

11Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:09 pm

Arlina

Arlina
Life time member
Life time member
It's a hit'n'miss gearbox, a strong foot will help Smile


__________________________________________________
Fake Neutral Gear Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde
    

12Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:10 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@Poupy wrote:As stated by many before, use the pedal to its full extent.
Also, and nobody apparently told it yet, when you change your gearbox oil, disobey the instruction manual and use some 75w140. It makes a hell of a difference on those bmw rough gearboxes.

And moly gear oil additive.  It's takes a few hundred miles to work in but it makes a noticeable difference in smoothing out the shifting.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

13Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:53 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
A rounded tablespoon of 1.5 micron Molybdenum Disulfide powder in the gearbox oil will make it shift like a rice burner.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:13 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I use half a tube of this stuff:

Fake Neutral Gear 31ijmc0nmSL._SX466_


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

15Back to top Go down   Fake Neutral Gear Empty Re: Fake Neutral Gear on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:39 am

KamilJ

KamilJ
New member
New member
Thank you all so much! 
i am silly jilly and wrongly adjusted clutch cable. it's all fine now but you have a point with spline lube and thanks for all the tips with the gearbox oil and working with the clutch!

    

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