BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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ashthespy

ashthespy
active member
active member
Was in a bit of a hurry this morning, and didn't let my K warm up as usual before taking off, rode about two mins (with the choke/throttle advance) still in the halfway spot, only to realise i didn't have my rain pants on. Pulled to the side, but didn't manage to grab the throttle soon enough to save the engine spluttering and dying. Gave it a few flicks afterwards, but no luck. Pushed her back home.

Tried again in the evening, she spluttered a bit, but didn't catch. After a (quite a) few attempts with varying splutters but no real success, gave up and went back in.

From my reading around here, it sounds like I have gone and flooded my plugs?
I'll pull them out in the morning, but I doubt I can get fresh ones right away.

What's the best way to recover from (hypothetical) wet plugs? (No propane torch, but we do have a gas stove Very Happy

Thanks,



Last edited by ashthespy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:48 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
A faulty temperature sensor or sensor connector can also cause flooding. In a stuck by the side of the road situation you can get the bike to run albeit roughly. Remove the fuel pump fuse and start the bike it should run on the residual fuel in the combustion chamber. You will have to manipulate the throttle to keep it running. As the engine starts to die ram the fuse back in and manipulate the throttle. It helps if you have a helper to ram the fuse back in while you manipulate the throttle. I have managed to limp home twice after doing this but I had to manipulate the throttle at lights.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

ashthespy

ashthespy
active member
active member
She's been running nice and smooth for 2k Kms now (aka since she's been mine) - so this is the first time this has happened.

I pulled the plugs this morning, and they were a bit wet - flamed them out and popped them back in, but she's not starting.
I quickly checked for spark when the plugs were out, and did see some pretty blue.

Now that I think back to yesterday again, I recall that when pulled up to the side, I switched to the side stand (always use the main) and a small bucket load of water came gushing out from the under seat box.  
Took the box out, cleared some debris that were blocking the drain holes, and now staring at the EFI module - it looks quite sealed and waterproof, but could water have snuck in there?

I'm now going to check the EFI plugs with a multimeter as per the EFI Troubleshooting guide .


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS
    

ashthespy

ashthespy
active member
active member
Been testing the temp sensors as the days get colder, and it seems to be fine. But I did manage to drain my battery in all my starting attempts. I miss a bike with no kicker!

Anyway, got my hands on a charger, charged the battery back up, cleaned the plugs again, cleared the fuel in the cylinders by running the starter a few times with the fuel pump fuse out. Popped the plugs back in, put the fuse back in, and pumped the throttle a few times while cranking it, and she spluttered back into life!


Not sure if it was a combination of flooded plugs and a low battery that caused my issues in the first place..


__________________________________________________
1984 K100 RS
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
A bad temperature sensor or dirty connection can cause flooding. On a cold start up it is best to put your throttle advance to the halfway point and don't touch the throttle. With the 2V bricks hitting the green start button actually enriches the mixture to aid starting. Bricks love a good battery, low battery voltage can cause the relay points to weld and continue to keep cranking. 

The worst case scenario is the battery can overheat and blow out the side of the battery. Battery acid will go every where. After having my relay jam three times I fitted a battery isolator switch to the earth lead. But since doing it it's never happened again.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

cycleman

cycleman
active member
active member
To assume is dangerous, but I assume that when you activate the choke, you move the TPS, which sends a signal to the EFI unit, ( when the ignition key is turned on ) telling it to send more fuel. Logically that is what happens.  The choke is really just an enrichner that moves the throttle slighty open ( from idle position ). That is why it is important to make sure the TPS is set properly.

From what I've seen is that if you over choke or choke when you don't need to, it results in more blue smoke at startup and can make it hard starting. The EFI on these bikes is pretty crude when compared to modern standards, but does have its advantages in that it rarely causes problems.

    

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
@cycleman wrote:To assume is dangerous, but I assume that when you activate the choke, you move the TPS, which sends a signal to the EFI unit, ( when the ignition key is turned on ) telling it to send more fuel. Logically that is what happens.  The choke is really just an enrichner that moves the throttle slighty open ( from idle position ). That is why it is important to make sure the TPS is set properly.

From what I've seen is that if you over choke or choke when you don't need to, it results in more blue smoke at startup and can make it hard starting. The EFI on these bikes is pretty crude when compared to modern standards, but does have its advantages in that it rarely causes problems.
To assume is dangerous... Logically that is what happens if you are Mr. Spock.

Disconnect your TPS and what happens?



Last edited by volador on Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@volador wrote:Disconnect your TPS and what happens?
A loop of The Trouble With Tribbles appears on your GPS screen.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? Usa-lo10
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
I ran my Brick with the TPS disconnected for around 6 Months the only difference was the occasional backfire on overrun. It was also slightly less jerky throttle transitions at slow speed around carpark speeds.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
@Laitch wrote:
@volador wrote:Disconnect your TPS and what happens?
A loop of The Trouble With Tribbles appears on your GPS screen.
Obviously tribbles are very perceptive creatures but there's no accounting for taste


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
your moto may/ may not have vacuum switch mounted on the back of the throttle bodies assembly with a hose connected to #1 throttle body front

If so you can unplug and tape up the connector to the loom and blank off the port to #1 throttle body

http://www.k100-forum.com/t15097-what-is-this

[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? 1985th10


http://www.k100-forum.com/t14705-tuning-my-k100

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/Ignition/contentIgnition.htm

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/maintenance/contentMajorService.htm

1. Are spark plugs Bosch X5DC or NGK D7EA with spark plug 5KΩ wires

2. Check/clean with DE-oxit/reseat the ICU and ECU connector plugs

3. Check/adjust throttle position switch

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/FuelOil/17_FuelLub.htm

4. Syncro throttle bodies   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCR3D8YMNs

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/FuelOil/17_FuelLub.htm

5. Clean Injectors  Soak injectors in Denatured Alcohol many videos on cleaning injectors

6. Valve adjustment   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkPnLVkxWQ

7. check/clean the Temperature Sensor connector plug located behind the radiator

8. Remove Vacuum Switch - one less thing to worry about

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/Ignition/8_IgnitionSystem.htm

http://www.k100-forum.com/t15097-what-is-this#176829

Fairing removal

http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/FrameForks/15_FrameForks.htm

Notable differences of the pre-85/86 K100 are the seat pan design with matching tail cowl section, the water/oil pump design changed, throttle cable design and fuel tank/fuel level sender/fuel return check valve.

Your 8/84 may have the European "hotter" cams known as "Finest Year K"

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,3653.msg56782.html#msg56782

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?4534-Why-is-the-85-K100-the-quot-Finest-Year-K-quot&s=66f149b3cadea44550d51fbf0b9ee793&p=42512&viewfull=1#post42512

The pre-1985/86 has molded pillion handles as part of the seat pan, metal or plastic seat pan.
Post-1985/86 removed handles from seat pan and added handles to the tail cowl section.

http://www.bmwkbike.dx.am/CLseats/kbikeseats.htm

Water Pump
pre-1986-87? original design old style impeller 11411461177

Superseded by 11412325850 design change the shaft with gear Z=32 teeth, shaft- 11411461183

Superseded by 11417676366 same shaft with gear Z=32 teeth

latest design 11517676371 design change shaft with gear Z=19 teeth, shaft- 11411461793

Throttle cables have 2 versions and lower brackets. Cable lengths vary with handlebars.
#1 version- have a adjustment sleeve approx. halfway down length
2nd version black plastic collar at the lower end or a white plastic collar

Pre-1985 fuel tank has a rear mounting tab later removed.
Early fuel lever sender is a thermistor type later is a float type.
[url=http://www.kforum-tech.com/how-to/Modification for early gas tank.htm]http://www.kforum-tech.com/how-to/Modification%20for%20early%20gas%20tank.htm[/url]


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
Make sure your tank is venting properly and the petrol filler cap has the hinge facing toward the seat

Forward pipe/tubing stub=Tank vent
Rear pipe/tubing stub=Rain drain of petrol filler cap area

http://www.k100-forum.com/t15241-in-tank-hose-routing-86-k100

[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? K-mode12

Go about tank removal carefully. 
The thermistor type fuel level sender is no longer available and rare as hens teeth on the interwebs.

The photos are from DJEwen's '85 build  http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10875.375.html

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,12340.0.html

[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? 5327-230418071830-1164451
[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? 5327-040618145754-13302312

This pic is from the web shows a newer 43mm diameter fuel pump with sock strainer as opposed to the older 52mm pump.
Round connector ends power the fuel pump.
[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? S-l1600
[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? 1601-200719225631
[Solved] Cold start shenanigans -> Flooded plugs? 1601-200719225724



Last edited by volador on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:33 pm; edited 5 times in total


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
Check parts compatibility with "BMW MAX Microfiche", BOBS BMW, REAL OEM

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/PartsFiche.aspx

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/PartsSearch.aspx

https://www.bobsbmw.com/store/microfiche/BrowseSeries.aspx

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do?kind=M&arch=1

Cross reference parts like Bosch pn#'s, etc....  http://partsplusecat.com/


Top 3 vendors for your parts needs plus Capital Cycle

https://www.beemerboneyard.com/

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/

https://www.tills.de/

Headlight relay stuff if you chose to add one

https://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=268.0

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4962.msg30932.html

http://culayer.com/product/matchbox-headlight-relay/

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html
 Eastern Beaver site is a great reference for electrical connectors,plugs, etc... somethings are cheaper on ebay


http://www.kforum-tech.com/Tech-page.html

http://www.kforum-tech.com/electrical/EFI/bike-wont-start-EN.htm

http://www.kforum-tech.com/Downloads/electrical/diagrams/interactive_diagrams.htm

http://dws.x10host.com/K100.Tshoot.Start.pdf


duck forum member

http://kbikeparts.com/index.htm

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/ckb.new2k.htm

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/ckb.tech.toc.htm


http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/IgnitionSwitch/

http://www.verrill.com/moto/moto.shtml

this site has a lot of good info and breakdown pictures in the tech and tech resources sections thou for K1100 alot of the parts are on K75 & K100

http://www.k11og.org/forum/index.php?sid=2df953dde5715fd9001fbe69edec5ad0

https://ibmwr.org/index.php/k-bike-tech-articles/

This site has all kinds of technical specifications on all the BMW models    http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/mechanicalpages/kseriesmechanical.htm

http://largiader.com

http://largiader.com/k75/khistory.html

https://www.flyingbrick.de/?id=1

You got some fall & winter reading material
Good luck with moto


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

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