BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:22 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Turned on the K75S this morning...plenty of battery charge, but not turning over...happened once last week, but ended up starting after a rest. What's with that then...,??

    

2Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:58 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Does the neutral light come on it the cluster?

Have you tried pulling in the clutch?

If it's not turning over then the first thing I'd check is that power is getting to the black/yellow wire that triggers the starter relay when the start button is pressed.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:09 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Thanks for the pointers!
Yes, all the lights are on including neutral when key is turned. Pull clutch in, start, but no turnover. It does get power to the starter motor, but it feels like it gets "stuck"....I'll did out the multi meter!!!!!

    

4Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:20 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
If you can hear the starter motor "trying" then it sounds like the starter relay is getting power and working.

You might want to consider cleaning or replacing the starter motor.
http://www.k100-forum.com/t2342-starter-motor-cleaning-tutorial


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

5Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:26 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Clean the motor's brushes.  They might need replacement.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

6Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:04 am

moriarti

moriarti
Silver member
Silver member
double check the EARTH near the starter. idea2


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

7Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:22 pm

Snod Blatter

Snod Blatter
Life time member
Life time member
Try turning the motor slightly by moving the bike in gear, sometimes the starter seems to have little dead zones. Mine's done it a couple of times, really weird!


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS SE ABS 8v  VIN: 0149214
Others: 1.5 x Honda CBX250RS-E, '94 CB250, '95 TRX850, '16 Z250SL
http://justbikethings.blogspot.co.uk/
    

8Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:33 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
As per .75 clean and check the starter brushes.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

9Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:58 pm

volador

volador
Gold member
Gold member
spin the starter backwards on a regular basis to keep the brushes clean

1-sit on your moto in 3nd gear or higher with key off...
2-roll backwards and pop the clutch...
3-repeat 4 or 5 times...
4-do this a few times a year...


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

10Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:32 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
The roll back brush cleaning works to a point, but eventually you'll need to pull it apart and clean it properly. It takes around about an hour to do it and you get the added benefit of checking the brush length.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

11Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:23 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Platinum member
Platinum member
I’ve just taken mine out for a clean and re-brush - it was mucky and the brushes were just on their wear limit - so glad I did it and it couldn’t have been easier.

A little wet and dry on the gearbox mounts is prudent and I also added a secondary earthing wire while I was there.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106. (Not blind to the irony of an April 1 production date).
2007 HD883 Sportster. Bobbed and bettered.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
    

12Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:49 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
A bit of Kopper Kote around where the starter housing slides into the bell housing is prudent. A mate had to slide hammer his out due to corrosion.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

13Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:23 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
@MartinW wrote:A bit of Kopper Kote around where the starter housing slides into the bell housing is prudent. A mate had to slide hammer his out due to corrosion.
Regards Martin.
I had the same issue when I took starter off the RT first time.

As for brushes, brush set is available and is cheap. Anyone having a few Ks its worth keeping on in the shed....


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

14Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:34 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Charged battery, and cleaned out starter motor. I did the brushes last year, so it was in good condition inside.
Starter relay next on my list....

    

15Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:38 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Opened starter relay...cleaned the contacts...put everything back together....tried starting...initially, the same mild kind of klunk, but then, turned over and started! Needed a bit of cranking to get going. It’s been so damp here....moisture in everything...so I wonder if that was it......I’ll keep an eye on it.....nothing I hate more than an intermittent electrical fault!!!!!

    

16Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:51 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Yep...there it is again!!!Lots of rain...damp...no start!! 61740

    

17Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:52 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
I haven’t checked yet, but I’m wondering if the alternator brushes may be the cause of this??

    

18Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:18 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
n/m. The idiot behind this keyboard should try reading what you've written. Lots of rain...damp...no start!! 167893


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

19Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:14 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
So, what I have is:
1) 12.47 volts at the battery (Odessey pc680)
2) Turn key to on position, and all dash lights come on as they should. Clutch in, push starter, and then the lights cut, (so load shed must be working), but the engine does not turn over. Lots of clicks from relays etc.
3) My logic to this moment is:
- there is enough power in the battery.
- power seems to be getting through to the starter, which has been cleaned, and the brushes checked.
- Rocking bike back and forth in gear, and then attempting start makes no difference.
- The starter switch seems to be doing its job.

4) Questions are: is the voltage regulator to blame? Can't test this till I'm running again. Is the battery suspect? I'll take it out again and charge for a while and see if that makes any difference.

Wisdom welcomed, and I also acknowledge that this post should be in the electrical forum slot! Rolling Eyes

    

20Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:09 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
12.47 too low for the battery....

Next time you are at it......

1: record meter reading at rest before you try starting.
2: record meter reading when starter button is pressed.
3: record meter reading when bike is running. 

Post them up but my thought is battery issue, its possibly being caused by poor charging OR a parasitic drain/short.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

21Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:27 am

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Alternator brushes maybe?
Can I jump start from a slave battery to test this?

    

22Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@BooG wrote:Can I jump start from a slave battery to test this?
I'd follow Olaf's suggestion in Post #20 on this. It's a simple test series to diagnose a common fault


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Usa-lo10
    

23Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:36 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Lots of rain...damp...no start!! 259495 
A "fully" charged 12V battery that is more than a year old with less than 12.8VDC on it is frigging bad and needs to be replaced! 

A battery with 12.47V on it when resting will not reliably start an engine and will sooner or later need replacing.  Why are you wasting your time with this battery?  Get a good one before doing anything else to remove electrical power issues from your problem.

Even if the problem is in the charging system, the fact it is not fully charging the battery will result in irreversible damage to the battery's ability to get a good charge that will properly start and run the engine.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

24Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
So:
12.9v at rest...
7.2v when switch is pushed (under load)
starter does not turn over.

I put the meter on the starter motor live and tested it under load, and it only read 4v..!
So, given that most people are inclined towards the battery....its another Odessey PC680 tomorrow!
All other functions seem fine: good lights/horn OK, etc....just won't crank!

    

25Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:29 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
I hope you have some hair left.... point 75? Lots of rain...damp...no start!! 694830

    

26Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:37 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Cue ball.

I assume you are reading at the battery terminals.  Battery voltage on my bikes drops to about 10 VDC when the starter is cranking.  The voltage you are reading tells me the plates in your battery are toast.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

27Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:11 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Thanks for the help...I'll sort a new pc680 tomorrow and see what happens. Luckily there is a battery warehouse in Enfield, not far from me (Hackney), so I'll pick one up in the morning (£100)...! Not actually that bad for a pc680..

    

28Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:40 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
If you can't get an Odyssey for any reason then a Motobatt AGM is the next best thing.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

29Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:30 pm

BooG

BooG
Platinum member
Platinum member
Well, she's up and running, and the odyssey is cranking that engine like it should! Thanks guys....I'm never looking to spend £100 on a fix, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and go there!! I love the forum!!
It was intermittent, but I checked the battery terminals at 2000 rpm and it was putting out about 13.8v, so alternator seems OK as well. I'll keep y'all posted! Very Happy

    

30Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:07 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
cheers


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

31Back to top Go down   Lots of rain...damp...no start!! Empty Re: Lots of rain...damp...no start!! on Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:20 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
@BooG wrote:Thanks for the help...I'll sort a new pc680 tomorrow and see what happens. Luckily there is a battery warehouse in Enfield, not far from me (Hackney), so I'll pick one up in the morning (£100)...! Not actually that bad for a pc680..
On Friday I found that's whats in my K1100LT!


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

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