BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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robmack

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Hi,

I'm assembling the drivetrain of my bike. I thoroughly cleaned the rear swingarm bearings of dirt and old grease. Is there a correct or incorrect way of repacking the bearing with grease before reinstalling the swingarm? I'm thinking that I take a grease gun along with some general purpose lithium grease and inject grease into the cup. When I insert the swingarm pivot, it should press the grease into the rollers of the bearing. Is this correct?


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

japuentes

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Hi there.
That´s what I did, the grease retainer behind the bearing will force the grease into the rollers.
Best regardss

    

charlie99

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hi rob .....whenever there is a conical bearing concerned it is always best to "pack" the bearing with grease whilst out of the cup .....an old technique but a good and proven method through the test of time.

what "packing" means is to use your palm of you hand to force the grease into the cage structure surrounding the rollers ...i dont have a cleaner way of doing it ....sorry ...

start out the outside and load grease into the roller cage ....then again at the inner race part .....smothering more grease in the actuall roller in the centre of the bearing face with the palm of your hand until it pushes more grease out of either end ...the intention is to remove any air gaps where grease has not filled ..

once "loaded" as to say it ....a wipe off of excess grease and insert it into the outer cup ....trust me ....it will stay there for ages ...and as the "load" "takes up" you will have nice clean grease in all the right places .

cheers


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'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

BIG D

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Cool

Like Charlie says rob, thats how I did mine it gets in all the right places.

BIG D

    

robmack

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Heh Charlie,

Are you saying that the swingarm bearings can be removed from the swingarm for packing? From reading Clymers, I was under the impression that I needed a special BMW extractor tool to get the bearings out of the swingarm. In the process of cleaning them, I have pulled up on the inner race slightly to separate the parts and allow more cleaning fluid into the space. But I've never had the bearing apart; they don't seem to separate easily as did the taper roller bearings on the steering head of my friend's Norton Commando, for example.

I'll try pulling a bit harder but, barring the ability to extract these suckers, will my process work? I'd love to use the proper method but if it requires me to use a bearing puller to do it, I'll pass.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

charlie99

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hey rob the sites say that its a conical bearing

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0504&mospid=51753&btnr=33_0641&hg=33&fg=20

between you and me i think these bearings are pushed into the rear wheel fork (swingarm) with some force ...Or more properly are siezed in there good ...to my way of thinking they should extract relativly easily ...unless they have worn an inner ridge on the bearing cup (quite likely ) worst case i could think of bob ...is to stuff the outer roller cup with lots of goo (palm pressed ) but really if they are worn like that ...might be time for a change huh ??!!! dont forget they only move about < 30 degrees or so durring operation and the tightening tecnique is prone to pushing then in harder..... puller ??? wow whats wrong with a long brass drift to push them out from the other side ???? cuppla taps ....bingo

10 cents from an old fella


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

robmack

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Hi Charlie,

The bearings are conical but have a dust cap (two actually, one is easily removed, the other not so). They won't extract easily but maybe I haven't used enough force for fear of breaking something.

I agree that there is a certain amount of preload that is imparted by the adjustable pivot. The bearings don't seem to be worn (they are not notchy) and I don't want to replace them if at all possible because (1) the bearing is doscontinued from the manufacturer and (2) the cost is outrageous at $70 per bearing. At this price, I don't want to accidently break a bearing.

The bearings are captured in a sealed cup in the swingarm so it is not possible to inject grease from behind or use a brass drift as you suggest. I saw a Youtube video on packing a roller bearing but I can't extract mine to do that type of packing.

I think I'm going to just pack grease in the cup and squish it into the bearing using the pivot as a piston and hope for the best.

UPDATE: Well, it went pretty well. Grease got squeezed throughout the bearing and poped out the dust shield. It was easy.



Last edited by robmack on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Update with results of putting grease in the bearing.)


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

Inge K.

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Hi Rob!

The reason for the stubborn behaviour of your bearing is: in the outer race it`s two grooves,
one for the inner dust seal and the other one is for the roller cage.

The bearing can be dismantled...patience, strong glasses and the needle pointed instrument
you did borrow from your dentist last time you did visit him.


Inge K.

    

Oldgoat

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Hey Rob,

Can you take pic if you get it apart...

Thanks Buddy,
OG



Last edited by Oldgoat on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

    

japuentes

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Hi there, yes the bearings can be dismantled, check the Haynes, they use an slide-hammer with an internally-expanding attachment. I didn´t do it by robmack´s same reasons. The bearings and the old grease feels and looks good, by pressing the new grease the old one will flow out and you´ll be ready for another 20 more years.
Best regards
JAP

    

Crazy Frog

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I just want to make a point about greasing bearings.
I remember an old rule (learned almost 40 years ago) when I was studying industrial mechanics. This method is general and work for the majority of applications.
For a bearing with a single row of balls, the quantity of grease should be approximately equivalent to the volume of one ball. This was the same for roller bearings.
The type and quantity of grease is a precise science and speed, pressure (or preload) as well as working temperature have to be considered.
When you buy a new bearing, it is already pre-greased from the manufacture and you can notice that it's never packed.

This Web site gives you an idea.

With this other site you will be able to calculate the interval between re-greasing.

I know, this is dry theory (Laughing) but this is the proper way to lubricate a bearing.

CF


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charlie99

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hi rob ....yes i saw that bearing removed in one of the service manuals also ....and now thinking about it ...it was blind to the back of the pivot .

good work on packing mate ....hope you get lots of k's from her

cheers


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

BIG D

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Cool

Two good sources of info there CF, we learn as we go along cheers.

BIG D

    

RicK G

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you can get the cone and rollers out easily, just insert large lever through centre of bearing and lever in several different directions and pop it will come out.

WARNINGS be sure to catch all the rollers as they canjump out quickly and take care with the fragile plastic roller cage.

clean all parts including seal and dust seal and put enough grease on it to hold the bits in place and push it back together, it will sort of click as it goes in.
leave the cup race in the swingingarm and clean and grease it in situ. the grease i use is either shell optimol or a moly grease as both are fairly waterproof.
if you need to get the cup race out run a bead of weld around the inside of the cup race and let it cool then a quick shake will see it fall out.
you only take it out if it is badly worn and needs replcing so the weld won't hurt well unless you touch it with your finger.

    

Oldgoat

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Great info guys and thanks for the excellent link Bert! I'm thinking I will pull mine when I do the FD seal later this month.

OG

    

16Back to top Go down    Swingarm Bearing on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:16 am

JonnyE


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Here's how I dismantled my swingarm bearings. To remove the bearings from the swingarm, I used a slide hammer with the correct sized collet - the bearings came out easily. There are two seals on each bearing. The outer seal may come off by prising the edges with your fingernails. One of mine was stuck firm so I used one of those tiny flat bladed metal screwdrivers used in electrical jobs - gently pry round the outer edge. Once the outer seal is off, you can clearly see the inner seal underneath. Using that same tiny screwdriver, push the blade quite firmly between the inner seal's outer edge and the bearing and gently pry as you work your way around the outer edge of the seal. It should come off pretty easily. Now that both seals are off, you can remove the bearing race. Turn the bearing over and, using your thumbs, push on the bearing whilst pulling on the race with your fingers - work round the bearing and the race should come off.


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Crazy Frog

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To remove a bearing installed in a blind hole, I use Hydraulic pressure.
Get a metal bar the same diameter of the inside diam. of the bearing. (5" or 6" long)
Generously pack the center hole of the bearing with grease.
Insert your your metal bar into the bearing.
Get a heavy hammer and 'whack' the metal bar.
The pressure applied to the grease will push the bearing out.
This solution is used when you want to replace the bearing as sometimes, the grease pressure will pop the seal out and you won't be able to re-use it.

CF


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

Inge K.

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Crazy Frog wrote: the grease pressure will pop the seal out and you won't be able to re-use it.

And the seals isn`t available as a single part.......

The bearing sold these days look a bit other than the old ones......it seems like it can`t be dismantled so easy as the old ones?


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Holister

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After cleaning out the swingarm bearings I need to repack them with grease. I have a tub of Penrite Molygrease EP 3%. Is this ok to use?
I've got the covers off them but can't remove the bearing so I'll pack as much in from the outside as I can. There doesn't appear to be any covers on the inside. Is this a problem?


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

RicK G

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Number one place it somewhere that the rollers don't disappear into the black hole.
I put a large screwdriver into the centre and a sharp jerk will dislodge the cone with rollers. The plastic cage will probably be in bits or at least split but you can use it again clean grease and its easy to put back together just a push with the thumb relocates the cone. That penrite is what I use on the swingarm bearings.
To get the cups out some heat to about 150°C and a sharp tap against a block will do the job, they just fall out. Cut a piece of colourbond steel for the inside to seal the dirt out.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Holister

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Thanks Rick. I gave it a go from your suggestion further back but I'll give it another go and persevere a bit more.


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

charlie99

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alby just fills the hole in the centre of the bearing with grease ...then placing the bearing pivot thingy into to bearing ...pushes the grease through the bearing from the rear

after removing the pivot pin you can see the grease permeating through the bearing from the rear ...on the occasion of the last time I did it  it had filled the bearing almost completely pushing the old grease towards the front ...for easy removal

hey !  it works for me ...a great idea. and thanks alby


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Holister

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The hole in the centre of the bearing just goes straight thru to the swingarm housing. You can see thru from one bearing to the other. I've not been able to work out what these "cups" are that Rick mentions. It looks like possibly I don't have cups.


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

RicK G

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The bearing cup is what I meant, the outer piece of the bearing mate.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

rawdonball

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Hey Captain

It sounds to me like you are missing the disc (thin metal plate) which fits in the bore of the swing arm prior to swing arm bearing installation. If you look through the opening where the rubber bellows attaches to the swing arm, you should see a shiny disc surface - bit like a core plug / welsh plug in appearance. If yours has been removed in the past by someone wanting to drive out the bearing cup by accessing the shoulder from within the swing arm, then you will have nothing to deflect the grease back through the bearing when using the method outlined by Charles99


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Holister

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Hi Rawdonball.  I thought that was the case. Anyway, I've cleaned them right out and they seem to run smoothly when seated. I think I'll replace them sometime soon anyway... 32203??  but will just repack them in place this time round.

I can see now how all this goes together. The grease retainer (optional) sits in behind the bearing and closes the back of the bearing off. I'll install retainers when I replace the bearing down the track.

Thanks everyone for the info


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Point-Seven-five

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I have to do the bearings on my bike.  Can someone point out where this "disc" you're talking about is located.  I have never seen it in any of my bikes.



Last edited by Point-Seven-five on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Speling eruhr)


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1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

sidecar paul

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As mentioned, it's a thin metal disc that blanks off the hole behind the bearing. I think it was only fitted to early machines as I once bought a later swing arm that didn't have these discs installed, so that's probably why your '90s bikes don't have them. 

Paul.


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'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

Point-Seven-five

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So it looks like heat is the way to get the bearings out.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

TIV

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Inge K. wrote:
Crazy Frog wrote: the grease pressure will pop the seal out and you won't be able to re-use it.

And the seals isn`t available as a single part.......

The bearing sold these days look a bit other than the old ones......it seems like it can`t be dismantled so easy as the old ones?


I recently bought a new set of swing arm bearings. Inge, you are right, the inner and outer races are one unit and pre-packet with grease from the manufacturer. Seems to me that they would be difficult to dismantle without damaging.

One other thing. There are no grease retainers / cups behind the bearings in my swingarm. I did not see any signs of them having been there.


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1992 Yamaha FJ1200

Cheers TIV
    

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