https://servimg.com/view/17645493/12

I started tearing down the bike on 21 July. My goal is to replace all the leaking seals, e.g. water/oil, output shaft, and FD - turnning into a big job. No problems so far.

https://servimg.com/view/17645493/11

At this point I am preparing to remove the frame from the engine. Still no issues, but finding that a good bit of the electrical wiring is showing signs of being brittle. The bike was apparently left outside by the last owner(s) a good bit. Lots of the hardware show signs of rust, and rubbers need a good bit of replacement.

Good on ya Paul.
Nice start. Keep the pics coming.
Question , what is your method on the output shaft? Repair or replace?

Jeeze i need to get on the ball with my upgrades on the k with the sidecar.....

Mikey

Thanks, Mickey,

Good question about the output shaft - I am scratching my head about using my shaft (as none of the rivets are loose), or trying to find a long term fix while I have it off. Would love to hear some thoughts about best approach when rivets are all nice and tight at the moment?

After many years (apparently) of output shaft seal leaking there was a considerable amount of oil buildup on the back end of the bike. Cleaning up the transmission, FD and shaft took some time and lots of brushing. Trans turned out pretty well. I leanred the hard way that not securing the clutch lever once the cable was removed would result in requirement for a new rubber boot.

https://servimg.com/view/17645493/16

Today, while removing the clutch assy, the pressure plate, spring came out fine. However, when trying to remove the output shaft it would not budge - had to use a gear puller to pull it out an inch in order to push it back in to gain access to the O-ring. I found it interesting that the center of the threaded input shaft was pushed forward when trying to pull off the output shaft. Trying to figure out if I can simply pull the input shaft backward to align with the threaded bolt - it is now approx 1 inch recessed. I am preparing to purchase my internals, e.g. seals, bushings, etc. from Bob's BMW in Maryland - a bit pricey, but I want to use OEM as much as possible. Good time to do all this, seals at water/oil seal, output shaft seal, and FD seal were all leaking. Also, clutch was down to the rivets.

https://servimg.com/view/17645493/15

Here are the parts that I plan to order tomorrow:

Water/Oil Pump Parts

11 41 1460329 Shaft Seal 12x25x5 1 $10.93



Oil Pan Parts

07 11 9919143 Screw Plug 1 $1.77

07 11 9963300 Gasket ring A18X22 1 $0.55



Timing Cover Parts

11 14 1460307 Gasket 1 $2.78



Transmission Parts

07 11 9919143 Screw plug 1 $1.77

07 11 9963300 Gasket ring A18X22 1 $0.55

11 13 1744329 Screw plug, magnetic 1 $11.38

07 11 9963200 Gasket ring A14X18-AL 1 $0.38

Seal Requirements for trans?



Air Collection Inlet Manifold

11 61 1460755 Bushing 4 $5.26



Clutch Parts

21 21 1464795 Clutch Plate 1 $156.02

11 21 1460696 Compression Ring 1 $4.29

11 21 1460797 Hex nut M20X1,5 1 $9.45

11 21 1460456 O-ring 19X4 1 $1.65



Fuel System Parts

13 11 1257819 Gasket ring 4 $1.85



Shaft Seal Parts

11 11 7666186 Shaft Seal 50X80X10 1 $29.98

11 21 1460797 Hex Nut M20X1,5 1 $9.45

11 21 1 460 696 Compression Ring 1 $4.29

11 21 1460456 O-ring 19X4 1 $1.65

21 21 1 454417 Screw 6 $1.98

21 21 1 242377 Washer 6 $0.56

Also - had a lot of support from Mike Cutshaw in TN - he sold needed body parts dirt cheap to help my cause. I am working with Alex in AUS to purchase his naked fairing/headlight assy - since I already have a K1200LT I want to sport bike - going to paint and modify the K100RT to look more like a local streat bike.

Your going to be busy for the next little while. There is nothing like doing a tear down and fix all to get to know your bike.

that moovement of the shafts sounds a little odd ..

might be a good idea to look at one of the manuals and study if there should be some kind of bearing retainer in there somewheres ...im a little confounded by the description but im thinking there should be some form of retension (locktight) holding the rear bearing of the output shaft in place ....just pulling it back out sounds like its a doomed thing ...you might have to crack the sump open and make sure it all fitts together properly again?

just thinking aloud ...hope it helps

If I am right Paul the clutch carrier is what you had to "pull" out (the big aluminium disc the clutch bolts onto), the trick which you now wish you had known is to get the O ring out first and then the carrier just slides off the shaft.
Bit hard to offer anything about the shaft without actually seeing it but I will try.


What may have happened is that the shaft has moved back through the rubber damping blocks (blue arrow) and the rear front end of the shaft has passed through the needle bearing (red arrow)
If you are lucky it will pull back into place and I would be turning the engine in normal direction of rotation while you move it backwards, that way you probably wont damage the needle roller.
If the shaft won't move then I don't see any option unfortunately but to remove the whole sump.

nice looking bike paul...yep age takes its toll on all things rubberish

good start !!!

paul.dickson_VA wrote:Thanks, Mickey,

Good question about the output shaft - I am scratching my head about using my shaft (as none of the rivets are loose), or trying to find a long term fix while I have it off. Would love to hear some thoughts about best approach when rivets are all nice and tight at the moment?

The only thing that is a long term solution is to put a 12 rivet shaft into it and then you can relax and not worry about it failing. Alby Albatros on this site is investigating getting a repair done with interference fit shoulder bolts instead of rivets but there is no news yet on the outcome.

Charlie/Rick - great feedback - thank you. I will have a go at it later today - will provide the feedback when completed. I am hoping that there was enough lay in the shaft moving forward that it will simply move back - if not - well, I have lots of tools. Thanks again.

Paul

im worried that the circlip at the rear end of the drive shaft has let go ....(12 in the pic) or the actuall bearing has gone back inside the casing a little ...just thinking

The circlip (and the bearing) is fixed at the rear end of part #10, the shaft can move independent of this.

But it could be a good idea to remove the pump, and check in the front end of the shaft.

Looking at the pic that Inge has there the shaft could only move a couple of mm at most. I would go along with removing the pump assy to get to the other end of the shaft.

I would guess that when tensioning the nut in the clutch housing would pull the shaft back to its former position.

But it still would be a good idea to remove the pump and have a check...........is my opinion.

Inge/Rick - all very good feedback - thank you. I may have overestimated the depth of the shaft moving forward - it may be closer to 1/2" or 15 MM (give/take). It is interesting to ponder Inge's comment about tightening the bolt and potentially having the shaft move aft. In the end, I am in complete agreement that pulling off the pan and checking it out would make me feel a bit more thorough. Thanks for the fantastic feedback, guys. Ordering the parts, so it will be a week-10 days before I know the outcome.

15 mm that is a whole lot, and it shure is needed some dismantling to check things out.

paul.dickson_VA wrote:Today, while removing the clutch assy, the pressure plate, spring came out fine. However, when trying to remove the output shaft it would not budge - had to use a gear puller to pull it out an inch in order to push it back in to gain access to the O-ring. I found it interesting that the center of the threaded input shaft was pushed forward when trying to pull off the output shaft. Trying to figure out if I can simply pull the input shaft backward to align with the threaded bolt - it is now approx 1 inch recessed.

Sorry, your post #4 is a bit confusing.....could it be that you have pushed the pilot bearing into the output shaft?

It was the 15mm which make me rethink, to move the shaft itself that much forward would need a lot of force (and damage).

Inge - that is exactly it - once you showed the picture I realized you hit it right on the head - it is the pilot bearing that moved forward approx 15mm. With that said - what are your thoughts? Planning to remove the pan and have a good lock tomorrow. Thanks.

Paul

phew !!! .....good thinking inge ....

Then at least it`s not that much damage done.......as if the shaft had moved 15 mm forward, but still some work involved.

The shaft is hollowed and have lubricating holes for both bearings and the gears at the rear end, and because of this it is a blanking plug in front of the pilot bearing.

I don`t know how much forward the plug/bearing can be moved before the holes is blocked, you need to remove the shaft to find out.

You got two alternatives: put another bearing on the outside of the one allready pushed in, if it don`t block the holes.
If the holes being blocked, remove the old plug and bearing and install new ones.

It would anyway be a good idea to pressure test the shaft/blanking plug, to avoid oil contamination of the friction disc.

BTW. I see it is some double bookings in your part list in post #4.

Inge,

Great feedback - that makes sense. While using the gear puller the center shaft was smaller than the output shaft diameter and pushed the center (which I now understand is the pilot beariing). I am curious if the pilot bearing can simply be pulled toward the rear from the back of the threaded shaft?

The question has come up about jumping in with both feet on a new machine - well, I have worked on a lot of bikes - the K100 is new to me. Just by doing this rebuild I have learned what would typically take me much longer to understand - this is precisely why I am doing it - as a hobby. No matter what pains I run into - they are good pains, especially when I have input from such skilled guys on this forum - I really appreciate the interaction on such issues.

As for the duplicate parts - you are right - I listed several in different places, but that was just to organize the parts by the requirements. I noticed that several places use the same screws, washers, plugs, etc. Working to remove the output shaft seal tomorrow and try to make sense of the pilot bearing. Thanks again, Inge.

Paul

I have been pondering this thread and wondering how it could happen, now all is explained.
It would be possible to get the pilot bush out but the plug is a bit more difficult. I would be removing the shaft for easier access. You may be able to come in from the front of the shaft to push the plug out as the O ring on the oil pump shaft seals that end.
Just been out to the shed to measure things and the blanking plug is 31mm down the shaft on both engines I have here so if yours is any futher than about 2-3mm futher it probably has been moved.

Rick,

That is a good thought - if that is actually the case - that the entire shaft is hollow - it seems that I could push it back from the front of the shaft where the gears are located. It didn't take much pressure to move in forward - I am thinking that it would be just as easy to move it aft if I could get a thin rod though the shaft from the front of the engine. Good thought.

Paul

I just added to that post Paul it might save you

could a ramset type bolt ....(with expanding sides ) be employed in pulling the bush/bearing out again .....??

just make sure that the colllar is available to grip so that the bolt can be removed again ...

thinking aloud again

Don't think you could get a ramset bolt in it, it's 6mm

It has been a bit like trying to play charades - sorry. The pics of the shaft and pilot bearing are now attached - ran out to take a couple quick pics.

https://servimg.com/view/17645493/17


https://servimg.com/view/17645493/18

Charlie - at first I thought that the entire shaft was one piece - once Inge suggested that it was the pilot bearing it also made sense to me at that point. I was thinking the same thing - it was be easy if the pilot bearing was threaded and I could simply tighten down a screw on top of a small washer to pull it out - it doesn't look to be threaded. My biggest concern is to avoid destroying the bearing - if possible - it moved forward without too much force - so I would think it would come back with equal force.

The best would be to use a expanding collet and a slide hammer.
You then could maybe reuse the existing bearing, if it haven`t been distorted
(it is rather soft).

If it still tight in the bore after been moved to it`s former position, but deformed on either of the inside ends, you could reaming it back to the genuine dia.

Charlie suggested the same thing - don't have one - will look into sourcing one.

A ramset bolt would distort the inside of the bearing, a suitable expanding collet won`t...as it grips only on the end and got plain sides.

Sorry to stirr it up, but when looking at the pictures it looks like it more deformed parts in there.
Around the shaft, in front of the seal ring.........can`t tell if it`s this or that......
trust washer?

I noticed that too, Inge - didn't see that before - there was no trauma to the shaft - just the center being pushed in a bit - I figure that once I take off the seal tomorrow I will see a little better what is going on. Question - have you ever replaced the pilot bearing? Curious how much pressure it takes to typically remove it and then insert the new one? Seems that it wold be inserted flush with the back of the putput shaft - but just curious what would stop it from going in deeper - this is where i am confused - should it stop before moving too far back, or can it do what mine did if it gets too much pressure?

paul.dickson_VA wrote:Question - have you ever replaced the pilot bearing? Curious how much pressure it takes to typically remove it and then insert the new one?

Newer needed that on a K100, only on several cars years back.
The amount of force needed to remove the old and install a new, would be appr. the same as you allready have used.

With the correct tool it shouldn`t be a problem to remove the old, if it`s not pushed flush with the blanking plug.

If it isn`t possible to get a grip on the inner end, you could tap a thread in the bearing, and then use a bolt and a slide hammer.

And when installing the new one......you just stop when you are flush with the end of the shaft......you don`t need to push further.

Okay - I think I have a plan now - thanks for taking your Saturday morning and spending it sharing your thoughts and skills.

Will let you know how it goes. Hope that you all have a wonderful day.

Good luck!

good luck ....yes the threading of the bearing sounds the most sensible thing ....just wind it out and replace with new ......?

Rick G wrote:

paul.dickson_VA wrote:Thanks, Mickey,

Good question about the output shaft - I am scratching my head about using my shaft (as none of the rivets are loose), or trying to find a long term fix while I have it off. Would love to hear some thoughts about best approach when rivets are all nice and tight at the moment?

The only thing that is a long term solution is to put a 12 rivet shaft into it and then you can relax and not worry about it failing. Alby Albatros on this site is investigating getting a repair done with interference fit shoulder bolts instead of rivets but there is no news yet on the outcome.

I will be talking to a machienist on monday arvo. Missed him earlier in the week.

Haven't been able to work on my restore for a few months. Since I last posted comments about my complete engine overhaul, I have:
Overhauled the water pump
Overhauled the fuel injectors
Installed new brakes and overhauled both master cylinders
Installed new rear shock
Painted front/rear wheels
Overhauled forks/seals
New oil sight glass
New oil pan and gaskets (fins were broken off from last owner)
New front/rear tires
I ran into an interesting problem with the clutch pushrod rubber gaitor - installed a new one in the overhaul, and then found that I had a hole in the rubber boot once I filled with fluid. As most of you know, this boot is costly - just had to buy another from Motorworks.
I am finding now that the simple things are causing me the most problems, e.g. missing a specific screw for handlebar plastic, adjusting throttle and choke linkage, and such little things. I am looking for someone to paint my tank and plastic parts - changing from bronze to silver. Here are some pics of the project at this point.