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1Back to top Go down    speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:27 am

charlie99

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many of us have tried to repair the speedo intermittent operation seems to be the big issue

so whilst the loom to sensor connection is always worth checking and cleaning

and inge's sugestion to resolder or bypass the film pcb connections seems a positive step

i thought to examine the multipin connection between loom and the input connectors to the instruments

the first 4 pins at the lower right are related to the speedo ...( the top pin of this lot i believe is the more dc feed out + signal return , the next is the less dc out -ive going signal return , and the third is the ground reference. starting at the 4 th pin working down ) after all it just counts pulses .

i had measured the suspect film pcb on the multipin connector to speedo driver board then to speedo motor assembly . and found .....nothing ....well meaning that it measured under half an ohm on all connections...no amount of fiddling bumping or what not would make it change ...the connections looked in good shape and no corrosion evident ...(for some this is not a common thing ...especially in wet type atmospheres in other parts of the world )
also the same result was noted from the connectors to the speedo amplifier board .



i took a closer examination of the pins that do the connection from the loom to the instruments



ahah!



what i found was corrosion on the junction at the pins ..in fact the nickle plating was long gone .

i suspect the different metals ...dc current (with some ac signal comming back ) had chewed out the mating contact surfaces ...( i recon the socket part will be corroded) but i thought to try replating ...reflowing some solder to make a better, conductive joint .





maybe not the most professional attempt at this .....and im sure there will be different teckniques ....(i was looking for some compound to replate the pins chemically like a silver based compound ...but no success in finding it with the short time i have available )

i dont know if this is the ultimate solve just yet .....but makes sence to me

i would dearly love to have a socket to replace the female type connector as well

well the instruments are back on ...deoxit and cleaner to attempt to solve the plating issue on the socket side ....lets see what happens huh ?

some madman stuff for sure ....


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:05 am

desertbeemer

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really like to know if this works my speedo works when it wants to and i havent been able to get the milage to work either


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:23 am

charlie99

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the gears on the speedo motor are often the issue desert ....just another age related thing im sure ....given that the connector under the right hand side cover from the rear wheel sensor are good .....they often corrode up ...deoxit is you friend ,,,,now say after me .....d. e. o. x. i . t



many have a similar issue and have been able to source and replace the split or disolved plastic gears , restoring function .

the issue im talking about is whilst riding ...the speedo needle drops to 0 ...

my mileage log ..odometer works fine ...all the time ...when the speedo is actually indicatiing something ...a gentle tap on the instruments often returns function or a wiggle of the cables to the instruments .....but i recon one day that tap will become a thump or three ...giggle


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:33 am

desertbeemer

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my milage hasnt worked since i got it i can get the speedo to work some times by smacking it good I saw a idea once about twisting all the pins to cause them to make better contact but at long as the tech works i know my speed lol


__________________________________________________
Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:37 am

charlie99

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call me stuborn desert ...i too have read that ...it sure has merit

but im twisted a different way ...ill try this and see what happens huh ?


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:45 am

Inge K.

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@charlie99 wrote:i would dearly love to have a socket to replace the female type connector as well.
Charlie, have a look at post #20 in this thread.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:03 am

charlie99

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thanks inge ...

i guess the local "rs components" folks have replacement sockets (machined metal ) available to replace the individual parts ...(something i had thought of before, but not investigated yet ...(as we at work use a similar standard in our manufacturing processes )

the issue i had was that , it would be quite difficult to replace the plug type terminations to the film pcb ... outside the realtive easy cut and crimp process for most of the wiring throughout the rest of the system .

im sure that some metalurgist type member will have an adequate solution to the corrosion i have noticed ..there may in fact be a common solution (chemical mix ) that can be applied instead of the process that i have done .....nickle plating is far stronger and resilient to lead-tin combinations in electrical-- electronic connections


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:05 am

Inge K.

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Desert, if it helps to smack the cluster.....the problem usually is the three pin connector which connects the preamplifier and the speedo.

Have a look at post #3 in this thread.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:20 am

Inge K.

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@charlie99 wrote:im sure that some metalurgist type member will have an adequate solution to the corrosion i have noticed ..there may in fact be a common solution (chemical mix ) that can be applied instead of the process that i have done .....nickle plating is far stronger and resilient to lead-tin combinations in electrical-- electronic connections

Some plating would be far better.........but I think you have a clever solution, quite easy and cheap....might have to be redone a couple of three times during the rest of the lifetime of the bike.....or yours Shocked .


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:38 am

desertbeemer

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my dad used a high grade silver solder on all his electronic stuff when i was a kid has to get hotter to melt but i think it would hold up better then a tin base one im glad we dont get warm here till april the list grows each day of things i have to do to my brick to bring her out of the cruds and in to the beauty she is.


__________________________________________________
Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:36 pm

K-BIKE


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I would second the comment about DeoxIT because I recently treated some contacts in my son's elderly Mercedes and when I put the DeoxIT G5 on I literally saw the dark oxides and sulphides disappear from the metal. After a few minutes I gave it another shot of G5 to wash off any dissolved stuff then treated it with the S5 (DeoxIT Shield).
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

12Back to top Go down    speedo and instrument connections on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:12 pm

RT

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I just had a similar problem, having redone all the gears inside and getting the odometer to work again, then when I was hitting bumpy roads (hard to find one here in Oz I know), the speedo drops to zero and only works again on a flat bit after 100k (60mph). I undid the connector under right hand side cove,r dee oxt it again, then put a white cable tie (for Blakey) around the cable to the frame.
Seems to have stopped it from moving around, and all is well with the speedo.
Looks like I should replace that connector one day.
RT


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Suzuki V Strom 650DL 2011. Gasp, chain driven.
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:37 am

charlie99

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seems the little session with some solder, a file and some deoxit has worked well.

todays ride proved nary a blink in the speedo operation ...

ill be happy if i can say this in 6- 10 months time ...as my last attack on the connections with deoxit was about 10 months ago ... just sporadic interuptions have happened since ...it kinda coincides with the change in seasons to our dampish early summer that i noticed a consistent break down when on bumpy road surfaces .

but so far so good and i did take an awesomely bumpy road to check it out

and some rain ...for scientific purposes






__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:52 am

MT350Explorer

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Good stuff Charlie, not a problem I have (yet!) but at least I know where to start looking when it does!

Cheers
Dave


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1991 K100 RS 16 valve
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:56 am

Crazy Frog

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I just updated Rob's tutorial on the Karamba software.
I compiled extra information found in other posts.

CF



Last edited by Crazy Frog on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

16Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:08 am

desertbeemer

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well looks like im doing the soldering thing and are the gears in the unit something i can order or do i have to make them?


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:37 am

Inge K.

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Desert, have you read post #6?

If your speedo don't receive any signal, the odo also won't function.

Or does the speedo function now and then, but not the odo?
If so, have a look here, and here is another source you could try.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:39 pm

desertbeemer

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Im pretty sure ive got both things going the crudded pins and busted gears spedo works now and then a smack will make it work for a while but the odomater has not worked since ive had the bike thanks for the lead im going to pull the speedo down today will get some pic of what i find


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:48 pm

charlie99

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@Crazy Frog wrote:I just updated Rob's tutorial on the Karamba software.
I compiled extra information found in other posts.

CF

thanks bert ...


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:28 pm

desertbeemer

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ok got my speedo tore down and sure enough the gears were stripped and busted going to order all three next. I did find two things I didnt like on the 3 pin connector the plastic arm that holds it is busted ill glue it back in place and on my main pins the bottom right pin is loose anyone know what this controls? i think it may have to do with my first warning of low fuel as that has never worked but could be the bulb havent checked it yet. ok who carrys deoxit ive never seen it here in the states is it offered here and if not what would be a good sub


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:35 pm

K-BIKE


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Hi Desertbeemer,
Caig in the US are the manufacturers and they sell direct although you will probably find it locally, go to http://www.caig.com/
Regards,
K-BIKE

PS there is no substitute that I have ever found for the performance of the genuine DeoxIT

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:41 pm

charlie99

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do a search with google desert ....

but made by "caig "

you may find it in pro audio shops as its highly recomended for guitar - amp cables for restoration of lossy-noisy type connectors

so look for a guitar type music shop i guess

bottom right on the input connections to instruments is suposed to be clock illumination ...gray - blue is the coresponding wire i believe .


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:14 pm

ReneZ

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Have a good look at where the pins are fitted to the flexible lead. I noted that there was corrosion there and a closer look showed that the pins are 'riveted' in the blue flex. These connections can corrode as well, particular if not enough force was used to press them in. No amount of cleaning solved the issue, so I soldered wires parallel to the blue flex where I could and this solved the (my) problem. All external contacts were good and no amount of use of hand signals (beating on the speedo) solved the problem. It always went wrong after some time riding, almost as if something warmed up and went wrong. Only switching the bike off and on after some time would 'reset' it. Weird issue!


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Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K :cyclops: Surprised-o:

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029)
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:59 pm

Inge K.

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@desertbeemer wrote:and on my main pins the bottom right pin is loose anyone know what this controls?

Pin 24, instrument illumination.



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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:25 am

desertbeemer

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ok so my nite light wont work man ill never get to sleep now


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:51 am

charlie99

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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:16 am

Inge K.

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@desertbeemer wrote: i think it may have to do with my first warning of low fuel as that has never worked but could be the bulb havent checked it yet.
If it's the 7L that don't function, I would guess that you got the later version pcb
where the 7L circuit have been removed.

Then the pcb would look like this:






The early version pcb which include both 7 and 4L looks like this:


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:30 pm

desertbeemer

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mine dont look like either of them ill get a pic today


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:05 pm

Inge K.

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That is the pcb for the float level sensor, which was used from model year -86.
Then it's only a 5L warning lamp.

BTW. by judging your avatar, your bike is a -86 year model....production start 09/85.
What's your VIN.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:15 pm

desertbeemer

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ok looked and i dont even have a light in the socket heres the vin wb105130x60043013 9/85 heck i bought it a 85 but your right it is a 86 never paid any attention to the model date


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

31Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:20 pm

Inge K.

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Could be a idea to change your signature, then..........
As it is a lot of differences....a bit easier to give a advice then.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

32Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:36 pm

Inge K.

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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

33Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:42 pm

desertbeemer

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I have learned so much here and with each day I learn more, some about my bike and some about others but it all goes in to the file.


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Bus jumping, over loading, swingarm bending, snake catching, desert redneck. 1986 k100rs. 1973 suzuki ts100, 1983honda atc110,185

William Gornto Alamogordo New Mexico
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:52 pm

Inge K.

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@desertbeemer wrote:it all goes in to the file.

Smart move,....but don't use the hardisk between your ears as a archive.........
it just get more and more errors as time pass by (my own experience).


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:39 pm

robmack

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@Crazy Frog wrote:I just updated Rob's tutorial on the Karamba software.
I compiled extra information found in other posts.

CF
Thanks for that, Bert.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

36Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:52 pm

K-BIKE


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A quick thought that flashed through the fog of Christmas liquid good cheer as I read this was that a quick diagnostic when all is still connected up to the bike is rather than using the excellent Karamba software is to use a mains soldering iron close to the sensor (which means you have to take it out of the rear drive) turn on the ignition and hold the plugged in iron so the heating element is close to the sensor a cheap non temperature controlled iron is best as the temperature controlled ones switch on and off and will not give a reading whilst it is not heating.

This should give you a displayed speed closish to 60K on 50 Hz mains or 45mph on 60 Hz. The downside of any calibration is the error on our speedos is not linear so if you set it spot on at a given speed say 50 kph it will not be spot on at 100. The Karamba software enables you to set it right at any speed you pick but still the basic problem of non linearity remains. If you have a portable GPS or a car one on a dry day you can go out and ride at your desired speed for calibration displayed on the GPS and then see what the difference is and put a bit of sticky tape with -5 or whatever the error is at that speed so you know at say an indicated 100 you need to subtract 5kph to know your real speed.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

37Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:05 pm

andyb

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@Inge K. wrote:
@desertbeemer wrote:and on my main pins the bottom right pin is loose anyone know what this controls?

Pin 24, instrument illumination.


Help!!
Trying do fix a dodgy speedo, odo and GPI......does anyone have an english version of pin allocations???
cheers!


__________________________________________________
AndyB
'03 K1200GT,

'88 K100 RT
Chassis number: 0097248 ; Vehicle code: 0504; Series: K589
Model: K100RT 84 (0504 (0505) Body Type: K100RT 84 (0504)
Catalog Model: ECE; Engine: (0504); Production: 1988/9
    

38Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:33 pm

RicK G

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This what you looking for Andy
1 - Red/White - Clock Power (other stuff too)
2 - Yellow/White - Gear Position Switch
3 - Yellow/Black - Gear Position Switch
4 - Yellow/Blue - Gear Position Switch
5 - Black/Green - Starter Switch(12V if 2, 3 &4 are grounded - gear=0)
6 - Green/Black - Power
7 - White - Low fuel lamp
8 - Green/Yellow - ABS Warning Relay
9 - Blue - Alternator
10 - Violet/black - Temp relay
11 - Brown/Green - Oil light
12 - Violet/White - Choke indicator
13 - Brown - Ground
14 - White/Blue - Bulb monitor
15 - White - High beam
16 - Black/Blue - Tachometer
17 - Blue/Black - Right turn indicator
18 - Brown - Ground
19 - Blue/Red - Left turn indicator
20 - -
21 - Blue/Green - Turn signal cancel on flasher relay
22 - Yellow - Speed Sensor
23 - Brown - Ground
24 - Gray/Blue - Backlights



__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

39Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:50 pm

Brickee

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"Smart move,....but don't use the hardisk between your ears as a archive.........
it just get more and more errors as time pass by (my own experience)."
Inge K

So true, as they say, the first thing to go as you get older is the memory, and I can't remember the second thing!


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86 K100RT VIN 0053533

The good news is, I no longer have senior moments. The bad news is, now it's a constant state of mind.
    

40Back to top Go down    Re: speedo and instrument connections on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:40 pm

andyb

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Thanks Rick! Perfecto.
I'm no electrician but speedo go drenched and lost speedo, odo and GPI top bar is playing up. All worked on dash 'cept the clock previously.
Pulled it apart cleaned it all as best I could, ran some solder down a few of the pins, plugged it back in, no improvement but now I get blinkers both on, no illumination lights and brake test not going off.....see below.....anyone got any ideas as to what I've done to it??


    

41Back to top Go down    speedo on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:19 am

jenkinskg

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Water and electrics, not a good mix.

I would pull speedo, then test signals into it

look for power, run and gear as they should be.

Then look for what is not making it to the correct place, as I remember it is in 2 parts the plug into each other.
Try speedo with tach and speedo disconnected, see if you get basic functions

I had stepper go bad on my old one and pieced 2 gauges together to make one good one, and kept parts for use in current bike


Score a deal on ebay for one with bad glass or other issues, use electrics from it

    

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