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1Back to top Go down    Leaking Fuel tank on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:30 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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Hello Guys

I have been reading all the threads on the different type of repair methods for a leaking a fuel tank and I have a couple of silly questions

There seems to be three ways of repairing the common problems

Internal fix, external fix, weld

My question first question on the internal fix is

1. I have read that the internal chemical liner can breakdown with the fuel additives that are being put into our fuel now true or false? Or is this just bad preparation?

2. I read on one of the chemical liner type that you need to swirl the tank to make sure that it cover all areas. Question is how you stop it from going down the inlet, outlet pipes.

My question first question on the external fix is

1. If the leak is on the seam how does this work? wont the leak just track along the seam and come out or do you need to apply it to the full length of the seam ?



My question first question on the weld fix is

1. If the leak is on the seam how does this work? wont the leak just track along the seam and come out or do you need to apply it to the full length of the seam ?

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:54 am

blaKey

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Welcome Matthew-Brisbane.

Try these guys in your search for a second hand tank. What ever you get, go over it with a fine tooth comb.

The last time I used a chemical liner was decades ago, but I would think that nowadays, the fuel additives would not be a concern.

Good luck.


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

Remember Rule No. 6
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:13 am

K-BIKE


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Hi Matthew,
Well done for posting in the forum. I had exactly the same problem on mine and researched the issue, the problem is usually caused by water sitting for a long time in one spot when the bike is laid up.

If you had a steel tank like a mates Suzuki Intruder that rusted a huge hole sealed only by a skin of paint and when he noticed it dripping slightly he poked the slight bulge with his finger and got a finger sized gusher as a result. For him it made sense to get the tank professionally repaired and coated internally with a special two part resin to rustproof the remainder of the tank. There is a guy up on the North Shore who does this and does most of the tanks for dealers faced with repairs for clients. Do not use a self applied internal resin they often fail and will risk messing up your fuel pump

In my case I drained the tank to remove the pressure of a head of petrol, gave the exterior area around the seal a good cleaning with spray brake cleaner, let that dry whilst I mixed the Permatex two part sealant and the pressed the putty over the leak and let it set. I refilled the tank next day and four years later I still have had no further leakage. Several other members have done the same on the same type of leaks with the same result.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

4Back to top Go down    Hello K Bike on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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This is probably a silly question but dose this stuff go on the outside??

And is the same product as it talks about using fiberglass, The only reason Im asking is last time I tried to fiberglass anything it ended up looking like a dogs breakfast



PRODUCT DESCRIPTION S.I.N.: 834-300

Permatex Fuel Tank Repair Kit makes quick permanent repairs to leaks in all types of metal fuel tanks (NOT for use on PLASTIC fuel tanks). It repairs cracks up to 4 (10cm) long and holes up to 3/8 (9mm) in diameter. Ideal for cars, light trucks and commercial vehicles.



DIRECTIONS FOR USE

This product is NOT for use on PLASTIC fuel tanks. The repair resin is designed to harden within 8 10 minutes and cures in 30 minutes. Read all directions before beginning repair. Repairs can be made ideally at temperatures from 50F to 75F. Repairs made at lower temperatures will take longer to cure.

1. Remove gas cap to vent tank. Make sure there is adequate ventilation. Drain tank or reduce fluid level at least 2 inches below damaged area.

2. Prepare damaged area by removing any oil, grease, tar or dirt, etc. from the repair area. Sand the affected area to at least 1 inch beyond the damage. Clean the area with alcohol swab.



3. Break off the appropriate size piece of putty and place over the leak. Cut the fiberglass cloth to fit within the sanded area.



4. The resin must be mixed and applied in less than 8 minutes as the resin will begin to harden. Mix the resin as follows: Burst the seam that separates the two materials by applying pressure to one side. Knead the contents of the pouch back and forth until the mixture is of uniform colour (mix for 2 minutes maximum).



5. Cut off the top of the pouch and dispense some of the resin mixture onto the damaged area. Spread the resin mixture in a uniform layer with the supplied brush onto the area to be covered by the fiberglass. (Note: The material will become warm to the touch.)



6. Place the fiberglass over the resin covered area. Spread the remaining mixture over the fiberglass until it is completely saturated. Taper the areas of the repair beyond the fiberglass. Smooth the repaired area with the brush


http://www.permatex.com.au/_products/Automotive/specialized+maintenance+++repair/professional+repair+systems/Permatex+Fuel+Tank+Repair+Kit-1396.aspx

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:06 am

RicK G

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I would say it goes on the outside but that is a guess.
It is not the stuff I was telling you about. That was like a ribbon, a white and blue strip side by side, you break of say 50mm then kneed it till it's well mixed and press it onto the prepared area like a little grey blob and leave it for 24 hours.
I used it to repair a knob on a clutch lever on my old R80 and 8 years later it is still there after at least one fall on that side. You can drill file and even tap a thread in it. It sets like a piece of granite.
I have used many permatex products and all without exception have been really good and far exceeded my expectations. I would say the stuff you linked to would be good without doubt but I know what you mean by a pigs breakfast, I hate working with fibreglass for that very reason.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:09 am

klompy the grey brick

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I have repaired many fuel tanks predominately aircraft integral aluminium tanks but the concept is the same and although bike tanks are not pressurised I would be far more comfortable having repairs carried out inside the tank as well as the outside.

last time I prepped a bike tank I used a product which swirled MEK ( methyl ethel ketone) like paint thinners...which cleaned it all and then a two part liquid mix which when swirled inside sealed the tank...yes the holes that were supposed to be there had to be reopened.

Anyhow that was a permatex product too from memory......so clean the inside as much as possible and seal there as well .....ever seen epoxy ribbon?...that also works great in petrol.

good luck mate


__________________________________________________
KKlompy
1984 K100RS Silver VIN 0019026 Mitt eine Staintune Zorst.
1997 K1100LT Dark Grey VIN WB1052600W0237453.

Chassis number0019026
Vehicle code0503
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RS 83 (0502 ( 0503 )
Body typeK 100 RS 83 (0502
Catalog modelECE
Production date1984 / 07
Engine0513)




    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:13 am

RicK G

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The problem I see with that is you can not get to the end of the breather tube it is under the piece of rolled aluminium just in front of the filler hole, it's enclosed so as not to get the slop and splash down it.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:25 am

klompy the grey brick

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a carefully placed tube up through the breather would work.....


__________________________________________________
KKlompy
1984 K100RS Silver VIN 0019026 Mitt eine Staintune Zorst.
1997 K1100LT Dark Grey VIN WB1052600W0237453.

Chassis number0019026
Vehicle code0503
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RS 83 (0502 ( 0503 )
Body typeK 100 RS 83 (0502
Catalog modelECE
Production date1984 / 07
Engine0513)




    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:44 am

RicK G

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@Klompy the grey brick wrote:a carefully placed tube up through the breather would work.....

Yeah true.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:20 pm

BIG D

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Cool

As well as a tank repair, have any of you guys used these new ethonal friendly tank sealers like POR 15 and PET-SEAL they are recommending to help save fuel tanks from the harshness of the 10 % ethonal to be used in Petrol from 2013 in the UK. It is said that this added ethonal is sufficient to have a detrimental effect on older tanks and fuel systems.



BIG D

    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:12 am

K-BIKE


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The stuff I used was the two part flat ribbon that you knead together to form a grey paste and it goes on the outside. It is Permatex 80884 (GTR-1) .25 oz. stick, carded
09116 called fuel tank and radiator repair great stuff. We don't need to do the seal on the inside to protect against ethanol because that does not bother the aluminium tank just the rubber bits around the pump Sad
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:08 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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Hello to all that responded

Im glad that I asked the question as the stuff that i would have gone nd brought would have been the harder to work with stuff

Cheers guys thanks for your help

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:54 am

RicK G

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Glad to have been able to help. Let us know how you go.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:38 pm

BIG D

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@K-BIKE wrote:The stuff I used was the two part flat ribbon that you knead together to form a grey paste and it goes on the outside. It is Permatex 80884 (GTR-1) .25 oz. stick, carded
09116 called fuel tank and radiator repair great stuff. We don't need to do the seal on the inside to protect against ethanol because that does not bother the aluminium tank just the rubber bits around the pump Sad
Regards,
K-BIKE

Cool

Thanks for the info K-BIKE.



BIG D

    

Matthew-Brisbane

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There's a hole in my bucket dear Elisa there is a hole in my bucket



    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:58 am

RicK G

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Well fix it with permatex dear Henry fix it with Permatex.

Is the hole under the float, they are usually under the pump as it seems to be where all the grunge gathers.
Thats about the size the ones on my K100 were and it hasn't leaked any more.
Did your tank have an earthing strap from a hole in the flange just near the pump to the frame. I ask because I have seen quoted that they were all supposed to have them but never come across one except for an end of a strap on a friends K100.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

17Back to top Go down    Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:16 am

RT

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Mine had one attached G man, ,and I couldn't figure out why but put it back on again just in case. Would there be a reason for this extra earth I wonder?,



__________________________________________________
Suzuki V Strom 650DL 2011. Gasp, chain driven.
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:24 am

Matthew-Brisbane

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No Earth strap on this one

Another question to all the learned people out there. There are some rust, pitting marks inside the tank should they be neutralised some how. I would hate to get another hole some where else once I put this all back together again.

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:01 am

RicK G

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@RT wrote:Mine had one attached G man, ,and I couldn't figure out why but put it back on again just in case. Would there be a reason for this extra earth I wonder?,


It is supposed to prevent electrolic corrosion by having the frame and tank both at earth potential.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:09 am

charlie99

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if you can see the pitting ...yes fix it ...might be a good idea to use the same stuff to cover the "weakened area" ..

good luck mathew ...

and welcome aboard


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:12 am

RicK G

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@Matthew-Brisbane wrote:No Earth strap on this one

Another question to all the learned people out there. There are some rust, pitting marks inside the tank should they be neutralised some how. I would hate to get another hole some where else once I put this all back together again.

Water is what causes the corrosion so if you keep it out you should not get any more.
I put about 100ml of metho in the tank if it has been ridden in the rain, it lets the water get absorbed into the fuel and then it passes through the system without harm. Water will condense from the air inside the tank and get into the fuel in winter when you get cold nights. Brisbane usually isn't too bad but in Stanthorpe we get the problem.
Putting 3 or 4 lts of E10 in a full tank of 98 will work but right before a long ride so it all gets through the system after a couple of fills.
Have a dig round the piting with a sharp thingy, better to repair 1 more hole now than on the roadside.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:59 am

Inge K.

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@RT wrote:Mine had one attached G man, ,and I couldn't figure out why but put it back on again just in case. Would there be a reason for this extra earth I wonder?,

Used on police models, for radio anti interference.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:07 am

RicK G

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Well well learn something new each day now to find out why not having an earth there would allow interference.
Thanks Inge


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:18 am

Inge K.

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I would guess the fuel pump could make some interference,
and by grounding the tank it acts as a sheild.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:26 am

RicK G

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I would have thought that an aluminium tank would be a good shield weather grounded or not but possibly not as there isn't any other source for interference as far as I can see. Hmmm interesting.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:30 am

charlie99

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+inge ...good thinking

rf from the brush type motor in the tank would certainly add to background "noise " seing that the motor has no earth connection to the body of the motor ...and is insulated by the suspension thingy ...

plus the movement on the fuel sender would click, rf wise as it changes etc


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

27Back to top Go down    Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:10 pm

rotormotored

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Hi there, Matt
Have you guys seen mine?

I will say that at least I don't have any leaks.
If any of you know what to do about the mess I have, I'd appreciate it.
Ed

    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:42 pm

Matthew-Brisbane

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Hi Ed

That look a mess I hope one of the guys give you an answer

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:59 pm

RT

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Hi rotormotored
mine looked very similar although the fuel sender wasn't so bad.
I pulled the pump out, fuel sender out, filter and hoses . Presuming it holds fuel with no holes.

I then got a Dremel type tool with a flexible shaft and wire brushes and went to town in there. (make sure there is no fuel to vapourise, let it dry completely after you remove everything.)

A lot of that crud will be old fuel broken down. I was told not to bother and get a new tank
but a new pump, filter and second hand fuel sender later, she has done about 15,000 miles.

Don't give up yet.
RT


__________________________________________________
Suzuki V Strom 650DL 2011. Gasp, chain driven.
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:43 pm

RicK G

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It looks like it has sat with rotten fuel for quite some time. Try putting in a fresh tank full and a bottle of fuel injector cleaner and let it sit for a few days occasionally giving it a good shake to stir up any activity then dump the fuel and hose it out with hot water. I think you will find a big difference.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

31Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:44 pm

Matthew-Brisbane

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Hello All

I have brought and tried the permatex putty to fill the hole in the tank

The putty was a little crumbley, I thought that it would be more like blue tack.

Now time to let it set and then I will link the fuel outlet inlet pipes and and recored how much I fill the tank while it off the bike, hopefully what I put in is what I get out after a couple of days

    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:57 pm

RicK G

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When you are trying to stick it on it feels like it is not bonding well and will peel off easilly but it is OK.
The first time I used it I thought it wasn't very good and expected it to fall off, I think it would survive a nuke job.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

33Back to top Go down    Leaking Fuel tank on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:47 am

RT

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Fingers crossed for you here
RT


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Suzuki V Strom 650DL 2011. Gasp, chain driven.
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:03 pm

K75cster

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To rotormotored that tank will need stripping of its contents, that is fuel sender and fuel pump and filter and tubing, then as I used, spray it with oven cleaner. (it will stink so do it in the back yard) let it stand for a 10 minute period where you sloosh it abit then go use the hose to blast it out. then go do it again 2 or 3 times, make sure the water evapoates each time so you can see your progress. now remember before you start to shove a plastic stick up the spout of the fuel pipe inside the tank so no water heads down there and maybe ensure the inlet or return line is carefully cleaned when finished. surface clean the pump and ensure its been sitting in clear clean fuel (I used 50/50 carb cleaner and petrol) all the while you have been cleaning the tank. Should clean up fine enough for you not to have to worry about again. Keep your tank fullish and use all of it at least every 3mths or so. Oven cleaner and water hasn't killed my tank yet, I had suggested to someone else awhile ago to add carby cleaner or some such cleaner that yamaha makes and sloosh it with fuel then hand it off to your neighbour as weed killer but that didn't go down to well so maybe steer clear of that sort of thing.


__________________________________________________
Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:35 pm

Rickmeister

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Re: Little earth strap, tank to frame, LHS, middle of the tank. Pain in the proverbial to get off and on again. Reading this thread...I think I can safely leave it off!!? (Mine's ex-police, and RFI shielding makes perfect sense.)

Yeah??


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Assumption is the root of all stuff-ups!
    

36Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:02 pm

Inge K.

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Gimme back my earth strap, at once!!!




..............cause you don't need it.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

kennybob

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i suspect it gets into the storage tanks at the gas station and it pumps right into our tanks, but it is awful and seems much worse in the post-ethanol-era. Mix ethanol and aluminum with water and salt to produce napalm jelly in the bottom of the tank...?

i bought an 87 K75S and was checking it over to make sure it is road-ready and good to go, replacing fuel and vacuum lines etc. Drained the tank to inspect inside and found this goo at the bottom and a pinhole leak in the seam/pocket behind the fuel pump. So i guess i'll give the epoxy patch a try--i'm thinking to press it thru the hole from the inside, and fill the seam with it too.



    

38Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:55 am

Stan

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I had a small hole that, when cleaned up was a big hole, and had it welded. It was in the seam area and the welding is far safer.


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1983 K100basic vin 0003960 colour red
1987 K100RT vin 0094685 colour, orange peel, sorry, pearl
    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Leaking Fuel tank on Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:05 pm

Motorbike Mike

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I'd go for welding every time. Every other "repair" is temporary. I've tried internal sealers and they can eventually melt into the fuel, thanks to the ethanol, and end up throughout the entire fuel system/cylinder head.
I've welded up quite a few now and I know it's a permanent job which can then be repainted and forgotten about.

    

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