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1Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:28 am

bolts

bolts
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I realise that this topic has been covered many times before on this forum and the Downloads section and there are You tube videos, however I have stumbled at the first hurdle.
I rec'd my overhaul kit from Motobins, 1 x seal kit, 1 x impellor, 1 x gear and shaft and believe the parts, in particular the oil seal are correct.

When I dismantled the pump it took a fair bit of force to remove the gear and shaft, consequently the seals were were extensively damaged and was hard to figure out what went where.

 I gather that the cone shape side (also markings on this side) goes toward the front (water side) of pump. I have spent all yesterday afternoon and this morning trying to get the oil seal in using a 18mm socket and a rubber mallet. The walls on the seal i have are quite rigid and I just dont understand how a seal of OD of approx 25mm goes thru/in a flange of 15.5mm diameter.

[img
More water pump woes Oil_se11

New oil seal

When I dismantled the pump it took a fair bit of force to remove the gear and shaft, consequently the seals were were extensively damaged and was hard to figure out what went where.

More water pump woes Water_10

Is this where seal locates?


More water pump woes Oil_se12

What I be better off using a tool, as above, to insert the seal?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

2Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:33 am

RicK G

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I think you will find that there is some of the original seal left behind by the looks of the 2nd picture.
Have you got the old oil seal out yet.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

3Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:21 am

bolts

bolts
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@RicK G wrote:I think you will find that there is some of the original seal left behind by the looks of the 2nd picture.
Have you got the old oil seal out yet.

 Do you mean the black ring below the arrow head?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

4Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:34 am

charlie99

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yep thee seal is still in there

I think I remember doing this before

the ridge goes towards the front of the assembly ...yes  

I think I can still remember where my post is ...it might help ...back in a sec

 http://www.k100-forum.com/t1833p250-85-rt-resto-my-attempt-hey-im-not-into-making-a-show-bike#34154



Last edited by charlie99 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OMore water pump woes Au-log10

"redframe" rs "bitsa"  with many contributions from the k100 community ,,with many thanks
    

5Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:38 am

bolts

bolts
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@RicK G wrote:I think you will find that there is some of the original seal left behind by the looks of the 2nd picture.
Have you got the old oil seal out yet.

 Yes you are right Rick. There was remnants of the old seal still there, I thought it was black undercutting similar to back side of pump.
Now how do I get the new seal down there?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

6Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:45 am

Erman

Erman
Gold member
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Use a properly sized pipe key (is that the right term?).
I used a piece of rubber between the tool and the seal, as well as a rubber mallet. Should be no problem getting it in that way.


__________________________________________________
Bikes:

1984 BMW K1000RS

1984 Yamaha XJ750 Seca
    

7Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:01 am

RicK G

RicK G
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I usually make sure to clean the seating surface well and put a smear of permatex red RTV and then put the seal on my little finger and put it in the right position and use a socket the right size and a small press I made to put it in.
Make sure the shaft is good at the seal contact point and not rust pitted or grooved as a lot are.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

8Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:37 am

bolts

bolts
active member
active member
Have cleaned all surfaces and Shaft is new. 
Still not sure how far seal goes in.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

9Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:39 am

charlie99

charlie99
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did you have a look at my link ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OMore water pump woes Au-log10

"redframe" rs "bitsa"  with many contributions from the k100 community ,,with many thanks
    

10Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:53 am

bolts

bolts
active member
active member
@charlie99 wrote:did you have a look at my link ?

 Yes I did. 
I should have said I can't see how the seal can be driven down to the lowest flange  given that
1. The OD of the seal is 25 mm
2. The seal itself is fairly rigid and would not easily bend.
3. The diameter of the holes thru which he seal has to go is 14 or 15 mm, haven't got the exact measurement now.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

11Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:37 am

charlie99

charlie99
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VIP
25mm for the seal ?  it should only be about 16 or 17mm ... that's  for the oil pump side  dome up


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OMore water pump woes Au-log10

"redframe" rs "bitsa"  with many contributions from the k100 community ,,with many thanks
    

12Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty something missing on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:29 pm

ibjman

ibjman
Life time member
Life time member
The installer is missing something here.
As stated above, the metal "shell" of the old deteriorated seal is still pressed into his housing ....it looks kind of like sheet metal material.
 He can probably "drive" it out from the back side with a blunt round punch (quite easily?)
CAUTION: be very careful not to scratch the sides of the aluminum housing with any tools.

Once the old seal is completely out and the area gently cleaned with some very fine emery paper, the new seal will press in quite easily with only minimal pressure. As mentioned above a tiny coat of RTV sealant along the outside wall (only) of the seal.......will make it slippery and even easier to press in while adding to the security of the seal itself.
 Personally, I don't use any sealer on these type seals......maybe a light coat of motor oil if you need some lube......they are neoprene on the outside too and will seal against a smooth clean bore.

As stated before, the coned center lip will face the front (away from the oil pump gears).

 Another way to view it is that on any standard "Lip" seal the sealing lip has a small "garter spring" around the
inside diameter of the lip.
 The garter spring always faces the oil (In).

There is also lots to learn about installing the water side seal depending upon which model seal & shaft assy you happen to have.
 Many people have to attempt this at least twice before they learn how to get it correct.

Good luck, Ibj....

    

13Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:54 pm

bolts

bolts
active member
active member
@ibjman wrote:The installer is missing something here.
As stated above, the metal "shell" of the old deteriorated seal is still pressed into his housing ....it looks kind of like sheet metal material.
 

 Now I get it Very Happy.
Thanks all for your input.
The metal shell of the old seal was still in the housing. When Rick and Charlie first mentioned I thought they meant some rubber left behind - not the metal shell itself. It was only after reading this post and then comparing Charlies photos with mine that the penny dropped.

I have now removed all the old seal (see pic) and will lightly emery the surfaces and then get on with the job.

Thanks again fellas cheers

More water pump woes Img_3510


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT, VIN 0029031
1985 K100RS, VIN 0083583
1973 Honda CB750
1948 AJS 500
All on club plates
    

14Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:45 pm

charlie99

charlie99
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VIP
yay !!
well done... your on your way !


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OMore water pump woes Au-log10

"redframe" rs "bitsa"  with many contributions from the k100 community ,,with many thanks
    

15Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty I'll give on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:52 pm

ibjman

ibjman
Life time member
Life time member
I'll give Rick & Charlie credit for the "quoted" post.....LOL.
Hugs, Ibj...

    

16Back to top Go down   More water pump woes Empty Re: More water pump woes on Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:09 am

MT350Explorer

MT350Explorer
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Life time member
My experience of the same job here mate.

http://www.k100-forum.com/t4749-oil-water-pump-seals-replacement

One or two useful photos and links.

The type of sealant you use on the pump mating faces is important; standard sealants like blue hylomar etc are not suitable.

Cheers
Dave


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1991 K100 RS 16 valve
    

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