BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down    Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:37 pm

the.postman


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Help!!!! Look what I've found... Sure in shouldn't be like this



 Got both pieces out


Look like its made of plastic!
What is it,? where should it be,? can I get a replacement?
Could this be the cause of a terrible rattle?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:55 pm

the.postman


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Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:27 pm

keefk1100lt

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Output shaft oil seal???

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:04 pm

MikeP

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@the.postman wrote:Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?
I don't think so. That large washer is steel and is too big to find its way through the seal:

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:30 pm

RicK G

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I have seen compressed fibre spacers there but as to how one determines which thickness to put there is beyond me.
There is a possibliity that it spaces the clutch carrier so that the new seal runs in a different part of the seal surface but it is unlikely.
I was discussing that with Charlie on the weekend when taking the shaft out of an engine I have here.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

6Back to top Go down    Plastic washer on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:00 am

ibjman

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I can tell you that the 1985 K100rt 2V parts bike I dismantled did have this plastic washer between the output shaft bearing and the clutch carrier housing, just as the one you found in the pics.

Yours was cracked when you found it, correct?
You definitely need a new one.
I sent the only one I had to someone recently who had "lost" the one he took out.

I think it is less likely that it will cure the rattle.

I just checked my K75 spare engine....I don't see the washer so I probably included it in the kit when I sold the used clutch assy.

I'll be interested to see what transpires after you get it all figured out.

Regards, Ibj...

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:06 am

MikeP

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@ibjman wrote:I just checked my K75 spare engine....I don't see the washer so I probably included it in the kit when I sold the used clutch assy.
 K75 doesn't seem to have them.

    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:28 am

the.postman


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It looks like I'm not the only one with this problem. Bottom of page. Looks like Inge has been giving advice to these fellows... What a guy!

It must be made of something rather special.... $23 or $30 for a "plastic" washer!!!!

Item #10


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:24 am

the.postman


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Quote from another forum       Here

At the bottom of page..

.""All K100-K1200s have the thrust washer. They'll knock quite loudly without it. No K75 had them

BMW said (roughly) to: "measure the original and replace with one of equal thickness". Hard to do if it's missing. However, I've not seen a 1.25mm washer in any K-Bike I've had apart.""




So my broken $25 piece of plastic could be the cause of the rattle/ knocking


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:36 am

charlie99

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just some thoughts ...

on the early k s there was listed a belvile type washer between the two cogs for the tensioner spring anti backlash assembly .
the suggested bmw advice papers say to chuck that washer (which makes sense  that the washer would have become dished out ) and fit an appropriately measured spacer .

this new discovery between output bearing and basket ..is interesting
as alby has indicated that there is a bit of movement of that whole assembly ...after refurbishment
rick and I discovered similar when pulling a 12 rivet shaft the other weekend .
could these soft washers be a mod to the earlier than 88 ish assemblies ?  we didn't find any such devices in our disassembly ....but we did see a couple of metal shims in there ...this would have been an original assembly fit up I suggest, to that particular engine.  

in any case ...food for thought at least

 I am intending to go in there soonish but I am seeking to have a definitive fix before I start ...or at least some more feedback before then ....

got a few bits and pieces just recently ...including a 1.75 mm washer ....for that assembly



may have to wait a bit longer I recon


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:31 am

the.postman


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Well non of the usual parts suppliers (motorworks, moto-bins, James Sherlock) have them, so have had to go to BMW main dealer. Non in stock but BMWUK are showing "one" in stock at £15.80.affraid  Well if that's the only one left, I better have it.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

12Back to top Go down    what about on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:08 pm

ibjman

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you can't find a good used one locally?

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:44 pm

the.postman


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Well I thought about it, but, there is nothing local, and everything else going in there is brand new, got a good deal on complete clutch and housing, so it would be a shame to put used things for the cost of half a gallon of good oil!
So from clutch lever, cable, new needle bearings and pin, rubber cup seal, complete clutch and flywheel will all be new, Hey whats another £15 Crying or Very sad


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:06 pm

Crazy Frog

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Every 2 valves engines (K75-K100) that I disassembled had this trust fiber washer. As everybody, I don't have an answer about the purpose of it. 
 What should be the thickness of it? I don't have a clue.
Hope this helps. Mad 

CF

Here is a quick video about replacing the clutch.


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:49 pm

the.postman


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@MikeP wrote:
@the.postman wrote:Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?
I don't think so. That large washer is steel and is too big to find its way through the seal:

If you check the pick on Jez's posting Romoving cover plate from clutch you can see the washer behind the seal and looking closely can see that it is worn, it has a little lip on the outer edge, Definitely Plastic or as CF has corrected a fiber washer.
I now have a new one and def. not metal


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

16Back to top Go down    I'm not alone! on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:32 am

Jez

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Ho Postman,

Did you end up getting your stop disc deliv./installed?  I couldn't work out what this was either, I just thought it was a part of the main seal (broken down). It didn't quiet compute when you commented on my post, but as I've been mentally getting my ducks in a row in prep for putting the "Frau" back together and searching the forum, and saw this thread..

I didn't get why this thing was on the inside of the seal, (seems yours was too),
The Clymer manual pg133 fig.207 shows it (calls it a thrust washer) and tells you to push it in till it bottoms out. Did it sit inside the seal? Did you get a pic of it fitted?

Did it cure your rattle? I've had said rattle and hoping this is it.

Sorry for all the questions, Motobins delivery expected this week and I guess now I'm searching for a new part.

Jez

study

    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:38 pm

the.postman


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I got my new thrust washer now fitted and its all back together.

the washer (10 ) sits on the end of the shaft of the clutch housing tight up to the step that sits in the main seal so when its assembled it will of course pass through the main seal.

The whole clutch from handlebar lever right through to clutch housing has now been replaced/refurbed and its "as smooth as a very smooth thing"


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:48 pm

charlie99

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what was the washer made of postie ?

never having seen a new one ...you might have been able to guess ?


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:00 pm

Jez

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I honestly thought mine was plastic Charlie when I removed it. I was a bit confused. It snapped like plastic as I pulled it out, but surely it ain't.

Here's one I intend to grab after I confirm it's thickness, apparently there are 2 or three different sizes.

Jez.

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:10 pm

charlie99

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thanks mate ....
also thanks for the link  

it really helps when you get a good squiz (look) at it

cheers


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:29 pm

RicK G

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They are what I know as a composite fibre washer and by the look of things there was a change to a metal washer at the introduction of the 16v engine. Although when I had the clutch off my K1100 I don't recall if it was a fibre or metal washer.
One thing that puzzles me is what is the purpose of the washer and why have 2 thickness of them, I suppose BMW have their reasons but as with many of their ideas may remain a puzzle.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

22Back to top Go down    what size? on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:40 pm

Jez

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Yeah what concerns me about that varying size thing, is that (I think above in this thread)  I read that you should replace with the same size? Mine was worn or squashed very thin. How would I know.

Jez

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:58 pm

RicK G

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They shouldn't wear as the two surfaces turn at the same speed but in saying that could very easily be hammered a bit if some slack occurs. I would measure the thing and replace with the size just above what the current thickness.
I haven't been able to find any reference as to how to determine what thickness should be used.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:48 am

the.postman


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BMW say replace your washer with the same thickness.... Like I'm going to be able to tell if my broken washer was 1mm or 1.25mm, as Jez says it feels like a brittle plastic

And why would the K75s not have them???



But Hey a new one has stopped my clutch from rattling
And boy did it rattle, you can hear it in the vid here   listen for the spitfire playing in the background... one of the joys of having a shed on an airfield


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:37 am

RicK G

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If you measure it and its over 1mm then it was a 1.25mm and if it is under 1mm then chances it was a 1mm spacer. Thats not guaranteed but will be fairly good.
The washer should not wear as it is held under tension from torquing the clutch nut.

The K75 have a similar but different clutch and as far as I know none of the parts are interchangeable.

From what I can see of the setup it would not matter at all if the 1.25 spacer was used regardless of what was in there.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:56 am

charlie99

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could this be the solution to lots of our rattling on startup noises

honestly ...alby has done up his output shaft and still has the issue ....(noting that there is still some movement front to aft after the work) ..as rick and I spied during a removal of a 12 rivet output shaft recently
(and still has the noise after replacing just about all bearings spacers and things throughout )

that vid of your noise, postie ...sounded incredibly similar to mine on start up this morning ....now having heard it properly, sans housing and gearbox etc .

I wonder if the expansion of the aluminium takes up that gap somewhat as the whole engine gets to temperature .
could possibly the metal replacement ring - spacer be the "end all solution" ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

27Back to top Go down    This gives me hope. on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:03 am

Jez

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Well Postman,

That's a familiar noise I reckon. Although yours is open in your vid, sound kinda similar to mine. (just before I cut the engine in the video).

Hope I have the same result, I'm looking for smooth as something really smooth as well. (Or in Black Adder terms, "As smooth as ten really smooth things")

Here's mine from pre-pull down.





Regards,

Jez.

PS Yes I know the oil seems a little low!

    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:03 pm

the.postman


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Poor quality "AFTER" vid



No clutch rattle


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:12 pm

charlie99

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yay !!


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

30Back to top Go down    Nice on Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:07 pm

Jez

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Sounds like music to me.

Jez.

    

31Back to top Go down    Thumbs up on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:15 pm

Jez

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Just to finalise, my own submission to this thread,

Washer fitted, rattle gone!

cheers 

Jez.

    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:08 pm

charlie99

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onya jez !


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

33Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:55 pm

RicK G

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@Jez wrote:Just to finalise, my own submission to this thread,

Washer fitted, rattle gone!

cheers 

Jez.
Good show jez so we can expect to see you at Smithys Jolly Jaunt through the Mountains in a couple of weeks?


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

34Back to top Go down    Unreliable unrideable? on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:00 pm

Jez

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Gotta get out soon to buy some beers for those who have helped Rick, but the bike won't be going too far until such time as I can twist that throttle and get the girl moving outta harms way EVERY time.
See how I go with getting the Bike running a little smooother.

Jez:beer:

    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Flywheel/Clutch housing on Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:26 am

the.postman


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cheers Great to hear all's well and rattle free


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

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