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1Back to top Go down    Relay question on Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:29 am

JHWeatho

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Afternoon folks of the k world

I have recently changed the indicators on my '85 K100RS from the standard bulb units to aftermarket led indicators. So my question is can anyone suggest a suitable replacement flasher relay for this instance?

Regards

Jay

1985 K100RS

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:45 am

duck

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Kisan Signal Minder SM-6


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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:06 pm

Guest


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I did the same with LEDs and it takes 20 minutes to remove the existing flasher unit, open it up, cut pin 7 on the 8 legged chip and put it back together. Works fine.

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:31 am

JHWeatho

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That's great advice thanks guys. A question in regards to bikerboy's response, I have taken the relay box apart and located the 8 legged chip - so which order do I count the legs to recognize leg #7? I tried the one which I presume was the correct leg ( the one second from the right at the bottom when looking at it with the plug facing up). When I severed that connection the relay stopped buzzing like it was but it started having a shit fit every now and then and hasn't helped with flashing at all.

Thanks again
Jay

1985 BMW K100RS

    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 am

charlie99

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pin 1 has a small dot on the plastic just above the leg

then you go around in a counter clockwise manner (usually )

on an 8 pin chip pin 4 is the bottom end away from 1 ...5 starts directly across the chip finishing up at pin 8 opposite pin 1

hope that helps


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6Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:03 am

JHWeatho

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charlie99 - I have checked the chip and it hasn't got a small dot above any of the legs. It has got a semi-circle cut out at one end of the chip (and have found a little dot above a leg on the bigger 14 legged chips) but not on the 8 legger. I would post a pic for more clarity but (call me stupid) I am still unaware of how to do that. . .

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:13 am

Rickmeister

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With semi-circle cutout on the end on your LHS, with the chip horizontal and the pins pointing downward (ie, looking at the top of the chip), pin 1 is the bottom LHS, pin 4 is the bottom RHS, pin 5 is the top RHS and pin 8 is the top LHS.

Rickmeister.


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8Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:35 am

charlie99

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yep ulli has got it

have a look here for how to post pictures

http://www.k100-forum.com/t998-posting-pictures-and-movies


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:19 pm

duck

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Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:03 pm

Inge K.

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More about this subject is found here.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:53 pm

FreyZI

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I'm having difficulty with my '85 K100RT after installing LED signals and in-line resistors. So... what exactly does cutting leg 7 do?

Cheers,

Frey

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:51 pm

BobT

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FreyZI wrote:I'm having difficulty with my '85 K100RT after installing LED signals and in-line resistors. So... what exactly does cutting leg 7 do?

Cheers,

Frey
To start with fitting LEDs does two things, it uses less electricity and supposedly the bulbs last forever making them more reliable. If you add resistors then they use the same electricity as the old bulbs and dump most of it as heat, and you add extra bits ruining the reliability.
If you cut leg 7 then you don't need the resistors as the flash rate will be the same as "normal" bulbs, and you will benefit with the less power and the increased reliability.

    

13Back to top Go down    Fried? on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:00 am

FreyZI

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Took apart flasher relay to cut leg 7. Here's what the board looks like. Is it fried? Should I try cutting leg 7 anyway? Doesn't seem like it could hurt.

Cheers,

Frey

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:49 am

RicK G

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The capacitor is leaking and will become N/S if not already. I would replace all 3 of those Caps before anything else then cut the #7 leg of the chip.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:33 am

FreyZI

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I love you guys. Seriously. I'd love to watch MacGyver with you (not the new one, it sucks). You'd be like, "No, no. What he should have done is grab that spoon and make it into a spanner and overhaul the engine and..."

Anyway, since I would need a nano-snipper to actually sever leg 7, I'm assuming I could turn the board over to the "printed" side and scratch away the trace. As for the three capacitors to replace, obviously the tall yellow (50v4.7uF) is one, and I assume the two short black pair (16v47uF) are the other two. What about the red and blue jobbies? Kinda looks like they were spit upon by the tall yellow fellow.

Or I could buy a lightly used flasher relay for $70.

Or maybe I can just go aftermarket and rewire the whole circuit?

Cheers,

Frey

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:58 am

RicK G

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Sorry I didn't even see that bit, it looks like a separate spill so I would also replace those as well.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:14 am

duck

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FreyZI wrote:
Or maybe I can just go aftermarket and rewire the whole circuit?
Here's how to DIY your own flasher relay:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/diyledrelay/diyledrelay.htm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:19 am

charlie99

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FreyZI wrote:I love you guys. Seriously. I'd love to watch MacGyver with you (not the new one, it sucks). You'd be like, "No, no. What he should have done is grab that spoon and make it into a spanner and overhaul the engine and..."

Anyway, since I would need a nano-snipper to actually sever leg 7, I'm assuming I could turn the board over to the "printed" side and scratch away the trace. As for the three capacitors to replace, obviously the tall yellow (50v4.7uF) is one, and I assume the two short black pair (16v47uF) are the other two. What about the red and blue jobbies? Kinda looks like they were spit upon by the tall yellow fellow.

Or I could buy a lightly used flasher relay for $70.

Or maybe I can just go aftermarket and rewire the whole circuit?

Cheers,

Frey

the otherred and blue ones are what they call monolithic (bipolar ) types and usually never leak ...they will blow a hole in the side if fed too much voltage though

the caps (monolithics ) are usually used for high impedance timing ...rf suppression (oscillation etc ) and should be good for almost ever

the tubular types (electrolyticsand are polarised )...which you see are of a different manufacture process ...and subject to drying out ..leaking etc as the insulator- electrolyte is a kind of waxy substance coated over aluminium foil then wrapped up and packaged in an aluminium can - insulated and then plastic wrapped . as they dry out the seal can shrink and let out the waxy stuff ...as the capacitor heats up at working voltages ...and noisy dc arriving to them ..

good luck and get them the right way round ...they can explode if put in backwards ...causing other damage as well obviously

replace the electro's

is my advice ...

be aware that capacitors are often glued in place to stop vibration working the copper leads and breaking them.


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:03 am

BobT

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If the thing is working as it is, then just cut pin 7. I did mine by removing the solder from the board side.
Fix other bits only if they cause problems, you will not see it once the case is back on!

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:47 pm

Avenger GT

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That doesn't look like a leaky electrolytic to me, looks more like glue. Just de-solder pin 7, or cut the track to it on the print side of the board as Bob T suggests.

    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:37 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Electrolyte will be soft and waxy, you can smear it around the board. The hot melt glue they use will be hard. Unsolder the leads using desoldering braid to soak up the solder, and use a hot screwdriver tip to melt the glue to pull the capacitor out.

Avoid the temptation to use your soldering iron to soften the glue. I had to learn that the hard way.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:28 pm

FreyZI

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The puddles on the board are very hard, so glue apparently. I carried out the cutting of leg 7 by cutting the track on the print side. Installed the modified relay and tried things out.

First pushed the left signal button. Nothing happened. Then, about a minute later, as I was sitting there, the left blinkers start flashing, about a flash per second. I cancelled, then hit the left signal button again and it worked, repeatedly. Awesome.

Then I pushed the right signal button. Nothing happened. I waited. Still nothing. I got to thinking where something could be open or grounded. Figured I'd check the inside of the signal button housing. A little dust and somewhat corroded in there. I shorted the signal switch at the terminals and, viola, the right blinkers came on and flashed at the same pace as the right signals had, about a flash per second. Awesome, I thought, I'll just clean up the switch. I did so with a little electrical cleaner spray and a tiny piece of 500 grit wet or dry. Tried the button. Nothing happened. Tried to short the switch again. Nothing happened. Switched the right and left indicator lights. Nothing (signal lights themselves are fine, they all work when hooked up to the left side circuit).

Other information: The turn signal cancel button works to cancel the left signal. The right turn signal button works to cancel the left signal. There is no sound from the relay when the right signal button is pushed. Hazards do not work (but I don't care particularly).

Ideas: Since the right signal button works to cancel the left signal, I'm assuming both that it's grounded properly and that the switch itself is working properly.

Questions: Any ideas where to find a gremlin?

Cheers,

Frey

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:43 pm

charlie99

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its possible that you may have an intermittent connection to the header plug to the relay ...from the loom wiring

these things always happen after being moved for the first time in years possibly ...

clean the connectors plug and socket

lots of us use deoxit for this

alternatively ..show us a pic of the print side of the relay board

we have seen before that joints from the connector block terminals to print board have fractured , and need resoldering

first things I can think of at least

good luck


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Are you aware that the hazard switch is connected to the flasher relay???


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:28 pm

FreyZI

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That was it, Charlie. Thanks! It was clean enough, but the connection from the loom must have been pushed out a bit when reconnecting the header plug to the relay.

Sweet. Now to troubleshoot the headlight and the horn...

    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:54 pm

robmack

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FreyZI wrote:Other information: The turn signal cancel button works to cancel the left signal. The right turn signal button works to cancel the left signal. There is no sound from the relay when the right signal button is pushed. Hazards do not work (but I don't care particularly).

Ideas: Since the right signal button works to cancel the left signal, I'm assuming both that it's grounded properly and that the switch itself is working properly.

Questions: Any ideas where to find a gremlin?

Cheers,

Frey
EDIT: Appears I was too late with my advice; the problem was solved.

The flasher relay requires a ground signal on the right turn to start the right pair of lights flashing. Grounding the left signal will auto cancel the right pair of lights if they are flashing and start the left pair of lights. Grounding the cancel signal will cancel which ever pair of lights are flashing.

I would try grounding the signal inputs at the relay socket using a wire attached to the battery negative or frame ground as a start. This will help to point you to where the problem lies.
1. Touch the ground to the left signal input (Blue/Red); the left lights should flash. If not, the relay is suspect; if yes, proceed.
2. Touch the ground to the right signal input (Blue/Yellow); the right lights should flash. If not, the relay is suspect; if yes proceed.
3. Touch the ground to the cancel input (Brown/White); the right lights should cancel. If not, the relay is suspect; if yes, proceed.
4. Touch the ground to the 4-way flasher input (Yellow/Purple); all lights should flash as long as the input is grounded and stop when the ground is removed. If yes, the relay is OK; the switch gear on the handlebars is suspect. Areas to check would be the switchgear itself, and the large white connectors under the tank.


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1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
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27Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:13 pm

FreyZI

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Thanks, Robmack. Not to worry, there are plenty more gremlins you can help me tackle.

First, headlight:

Took housing apart. Looks like the solder on one terminal of the switch has joined another.
That can't be good

    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:23 pm

FreyZI

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Thanks, .75. I did push on all the connectors for the hazards at the header to the flasher relay. I think I may have a bad switch. The hazard switch, of course, has three terminals and one of the wires had detached from the solder (middle, I believe) under PO's abuse. I did a crappy solder job and may have to revisit it. I had ordered an aftermarket switch to mount on the handlebar, but when it arrived, it was only a two-wire (could have sworn I ordered a three wire).

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Relay question on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:52 pm

Inge K.

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FreyZI wrote: The hazard switch, of course, has three terminals... I had ordered an aftermarket switch to mount on the handlebar, but when it arrived, it was only a two-wire (could have sworn I ordered a three wire).

The third wire (blue/white) is power to a indicator bulb inside the switch,
which you don't really need (the bulb was left out on later models).

If you ground the yellow/violet wire via the brown wire your hazard flash should start.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

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