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1Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Lithium Iron Battery Test on Wed May 07, 2014 11:49 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
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A battery company in the state of Oregon (Or-a-gun) I deal with sent me this battery to try. It's the correct size to replace the BMW/Exide GEL, OEM part number 61 21 2 346 800, which fits the majority of K bikes, Oilheads, the Hexhead R1200RT and the K1600GT/GTL. It's made in China of a four cell design and it's a lithium iron variety (not ion) and I'm gunna give it a thorough work out. Their part number is the universal part number 51913. I don't know how much they'll cost just yet.

Lithium Iron Battery Test Imag0223

Let's hope it has as much juice as my morning slather of Vegemite on toast! 
Lithium Iron Battery Test 652573 

Lithium Iron Battery Test Imag0224

I have already got the Genius-brand charger they happen to recommend. When I arrived home from work and toil I plugged it in and it went from red to green (full charge) in about five minutes' time. It's got a static voltage reading of 13.35V and is supposed to be used only with controlled voltage chargers of a 15V limit. At full charge my Genius is putting out 14.2V, which is acceptable.

Lithium Iron Battery Test Imag0225

I'm replacing the BMW/Exide tonight and have access to a charger at work and at home. I've not had good experience with the Shorai LFX lithium battery so while I remain open minded I am a bit sceptical as well. We returned over 60% of the new Shorai batteries we bought and sold when they released them. That's a dismal track record. I understand that they've improved their ratings per the bike intended. However, it's still once bitten, twice shy. Let's see how this one goes.

By the way, I whacked it onto our postal scale and it came up at 1.6 kilos (3.6 Lbs) as compared to the factory battery at 6.2 kilos (13.6 Lbs), a ten Lb saving!


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

2Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 12:00 am

rosskko

rosskko
VIP
VIP
That is a huge weight saving.

Care package?

Lithium Iron Battery Test Care_p10


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

3Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 12:28 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
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rossko wrote:Care package?

Lithium Iron Battery Test Care_p10
Nuh, bought it here. 200 grams, US$8.99.... 'Merican prices.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

4Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 12:40 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
What is the physical size and capacity of it in Amp Hours.
At standing voltage of 13.3 it will stop the  under voltage problems with ABS 1.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

5Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 12:55 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
@RicK G wrote:What is the physical size and capacity of it in Amp Hours.
At standing voltage of 13.3 it will stop the  under voltage problems with ABS 1.

Lithium Iron Battery Test Imag0226

180mm wide x 170mm tall x 76mm deep, same as the PC680 Odyssey (and anything other than the "brick" battery of some K and Airheads) that's waiting to go into either the GT or the RT when something karks it.

Scorpion say they don't measure the AH but instead show a chart which highlights the rating. Here's a link:
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ss51913.html

Lithium Iron Battery Test Rating5   Lithium battery salvation
By Mac on Oct 24, 2013, Ownership: Just Bought, Knowledge Level: "AC/DC is more than a band."

Note that they're mail ordering it in the US (with free priority mail) for US$169, with a $218 retail price. The Factory BMW/Exide is retailing for $195 and we sell it for $179 plus 9.5% tax. So not too bad a deal. Prolly add a bit to OZ, South Amrica, or Europe. Lemme check what my cost is tamoree back at work.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

6Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 1:23 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
All that tells me is that they wont tell because its less than 1/2 of the same physical size lead acid.
If I am going to run my CPAP machine of it then I need to know.
Great for starting lousy for capacity at slower discharge rates.
All waffle and no ice cream all they do is tell how much better their battery is compared to all the other brands who tell you how their batteries are better than all the other brands who tell you how their batteries are better than all the other brands who tell you how their batteries are better than all the other brands.
Skeptical yes but one thing I have learned in my life time is that I have not been anywhere skeptical enough.


__________________________________________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."  from Mencken's 1919 Prejudices

Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

7Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 4:16 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
as it recomends ...just check your voltage regulator on the bike dazza ..if you can manage to get 14.2 out of it on running - charge there is a high likely hood that the battery will do fine .....there are different regulators out there mate

i see a problem for many of us though ....almost all the regulators fitted as standard are going to limit to 13.8 volts ....and as specified by the manufacturer they require 14-15 volts to charge properly (different cell voltages and charge requirements ).

young alby bought an aftermarket regulator for about 30 something bucks
which just happens to charge at 14.2 ...(what i call a city type regulator)   a little too much for his kind of riding out in the country with generally long run times and a lead acid battery ....it boils off pretty quick

the other thing to remember is that li ion batteries dont like extended charge periods past their charge point ...with much voltage over them ...so the 14.2 would be just great ...but 15 is just too much

a couple of the friends  (geeks ) here at work run li ion batteries in their scate boards (electric ones ) and get far more go and running times than the equivalent gell cells  ...as they put it by heaps ...anothher runs li ion on his motorised push bike ...he also recons they they are great ...been doing it for over 8 months now ...(reclaimed battery packs from electric drills actually ) repacked into 42 volt battery packs ...along with his 900 watt electric motor gets him over 15 ks one direction to work each  day and back home (the motor is the size a little larger than our starter motor ....but more like a stepper motor with about 3 degrees per pole as you try and turn the thing by hand at rest )   the scate boards rip past the workshop at well over 25 mph , they carry a small remote control in one hand for speed control ...bit like the old radio control battery cars ...with single hand controller .




be aware mate ....just a heads up

i recon the reason for the returns is that the bike running charge isnt sufficient for requirement with this type of battery .. and possibly the use of battery tenders for extended periods of inactivity

cheers ...hoping to hear the results


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OLithium Iron Battery Test Au-log10
    

8Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 11:05 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
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A lithium-ion battery (a.k.a Li-ion) is rechargeable type of battery with lithium cobalt dioxide (LiCoO2) or lithium manganese oxide (LiMn2O4) as a cathode. A lithium-iron battery is also a rechargeable type of battery but made with lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) as the cathode material. Generally, anodes are made up of carbon in both batteries. Actually, lithium-iron is a newer version in the lithium battery family type.

Now that that's out of the way...

We know that we aren't s'posed to charge them for extended periods nor charge them at rates over 15V. There are red flags all over the packaging and on the battery warning of this.

The first thing you notice with a Li-iron battery is that it spins the starter quite a bit faster. Using a voltmetre on the connections also shows that the voltage level doesn't drop nearly as far as an AGM, GEL or flooded lead-acid battery would. Often a lead-acid battery will drop to under eleven volts. This one barely drops below 12.5V. So Rick's idea that you might avoid ABS low voltage warnings is prolly correct - but let us see how long the battery stays at full voltage with repeated use. My K-GT has the higher output 60A alternator because it has heated seat, heated grips, etc., so its ability to keep the Li-iron battery at full charge is pretty good, since it has the reserve to do so. I have procured and am fitting a digital, backlit, mini-voltmetre on the dash to monitor the proceedings as I ride.

Two of the main reasons for such a high failure rate of the Shorai Li-iron batteries initially was because, a) they were let go flat for too long and were catalogued/underrated for the application, then would not accept a charge when flat. It seems they were trying to show how good they were (by making them physically too small/not enough cranking amps) they just didn't have enough capacity. Also, b) they need to be charged with a certain type of charger which plugs into a port on the top of the battery, not at the pos/neg connections, and most users didn't spring for this charger.

Warnings abound about not using a traditional 'Battery Tender' type charger due to too high a charge rate and the pulse/anti-sulfation feature of most of them. This destroys these batteries. They are significantly upgraded/rated/sized in the newest catalogues now with a far less failure rate. I still don't stock or sell 'em.

Let's see how we go. Waffles 'n' ice cream. Yummo.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

9Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Thu May 08, 2014 5:45 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
Life time member
Interesting stuff.
I've recently fitted a Shorai lithium iron (14AH equivalent) on my Vincent to drive an electric starter. It's the smallest battery case available and I've fitted it into an Exide battery case along with the starter solenoid. 

Lithium Iron Battery Test Sam_0822

It's charged from an ultra powerful Lucas 60W dynamo, controlled by a DVR regulator and, so far, it's been working well; even though it's turning over a 998 v-twin through the gearbox and primary drive before reaching the crankshaft!

I'll keep my fingers crossed that I've got a good Shorai. But I've still got a kickstarter and magneto. lol! 


Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

10Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Wed May 14, 2014 12:03 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
It's early days, as they say, but so far, so good. I'm carefully monitoring the voltage fluctuations with an eye on simply being able to forget about this new-fangled contraption nestled down underneath me in the bowels of the bike as I ride - like we do with just about any battery or other electrical/mechanical piece. At rest the battery is always mid-13 volts, and dips to about 12.3 volts when cranking to start the bike. My K12 has a 60amp (720 Watt) alternator. At idle she sits at 14.09 volts (even with heated seat and heated grips set to high position!) so the alternator is churning out the required recharge Watts. Strumming down the highway at virtually any speed the volts are steady on 14.2 volts. An application of the high beam, brakes, indicators, or any combination of either, never drops the current below 14.10 volts....

The other day it dawned on me that in combination with the recently fitted Two Bros exhaust system which weighs under 9 lbs (4 kilos) in total, and this Scorpion battery, which weighs 3.6 lbs (1.63 kilos), I've saved 30 lbs (13.6 kilos) from stock. The factory exhaust and battery were 28.6 lbs and 13.6 lbs, respectively. I've personally lost five lbs this week due to a heavy chest cold, so there's another few kilos off the top.
 Wink 

It's a pity I haven't been able to ride more, other than back and forth to work, since the weather has changed for the better round these here parts. It's all bright green and loverly again, windows thrown open, birds galore, tall grass, trees full of leaves, and flowers bursting out everywhere. I've been able to spot snow-covered Mt Rainier looming large each morning from my front steps. It was 25 yesterday and today it'll be 28 or 29, warmer than Brissy for a change! Expect some rain and mid-teens for the weekend, once again. This place isn't quite heaven.


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

11Back to top Go down   Lithium Iron Battery Test Empty Re: Lithium Iron Battery Test on Sun May 18, 2014 3:32 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
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Moderator
The new L-I battery is acting just as a battery should. I monitor the voltage as I ride and again once the bike is shut down and put in the garage at day's end. Nothing to report but those facts. Let's see how she goes as time passes. I love that it's ten pounds lighter than the original GEL battery, too!


__________________________________________________

1987 K100RS, '89 K100 w/K1100RS engine, '93 Framed K11/K12 engine 'Big Block', '96 K1100RS, '09 K1300GT, '07 K1200R, '95 R100 Mystic & '77 R75/7.

    

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