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1Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 2:42 am

k-wopper

k-wopper
Silver member
Silver member
Hi guys,
I,ve only had my K-100 on the road for two weeks and this is the first time the weather has warmed up above 25 c. I was riding in rush hour traffic and was feeling the love (warmth) of the engine but I was expecting that. I began to smell gasoline (petrol for some of you Rolling Eyes ) so I pulled over to look for leaks. There was nothing visible on the ground, the motor sounded fine and I could hear the cooling fan running - yeah-. I turned the engine off thinking maybe some thing would drip but instead I heard a "tink..tink..tink" sound. Now I'm poking under the fairing looking at the rad and hoses. They were hot but not bulging or leaking. 
I followed the sound to be coming from the fuel tank its self. Popped the cap and got a big waft of gasoline vapour (not under pressure though) and sticking my ear to the filler it did indeed sound like a kettle on a slow boil!
My bike does not have a temperature gauge and the tank was hot enough to be uncomfortable but not burning to my bare hand.
Oh well, "that's just how it is " I thought and started it up and rode home with out incident.
The tank does have a thin foil and insulation cloth under the tank but I'm thinking maybe it's not enough. I would hope some of you southern hemisphere chaps would have some suggestions as I hear it's a bit drier and hotter than the Great White North (Canada).
I am only concerned about the fuel in the tank. The motor heat did not concern me at all and the coolant levels and temps did not fluctuate. 
Any help would be appreciated as always,
Rob

    

2Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 4:20 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
I put a fuel cooler on my K1100 because the tank was getting far too hot.
I used a small auto trans cooler and mounted it in the return line and in front of the radiator on the outside of mesh.
It works quite well.
The cooler is about 100 x 150mm and 20mm thick with 10mm barbed fittings but the fuel hose stretched over them.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

3Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 5:15 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
many heat related issue have been noticed across the span of time ...seems many don't have the same issues and round here if the temperatures are under 20-25  odd degrees c  no issues are noted on a typical ride conditions .

there are quite a few suggested heat related solves out there

for me ...insulating the fuel hoses with airconditioning  pipe insulation (cheep and effective ) is a good start

many have upgraded -refurbished the under tank insulation  with good results

dynamat  has been tried as an insulation suggestion

I also have installed a return line ( lower pressure )  oil cooler (almost exactly the same as ricks ...different paths though to find the right thing )

the difference between before and after is quite amazing

meanwhile I choose to travel with the lower fairings off  ...on my rt

I have additionally removed the radiator fiberglass fairing section ...and trialling something else to push some air through the radiator whilst travelling

in addition I have installed a small scoop - wind deflector under the main fairing front section ...which removes the vacuum bubble  that forms behind that big fairing and screen (and traps a heap of heat around the tank area as it sucks up from the motor area )

end result is good ...although some refinement is on going

tank temperatures have decreased from  the boil point ...as you have noticed   to something very different and comfortable ...now

best and first thing I can suggest is ....replace the thermostat in the cooling system ...( I have seen 3 here that are "past used date" ) not only do they not open fully , they fail to block the bypass tube properly  letting high temperature fluids bypass the cooling radiator system properly and enter back into the water pump at super high temperatures ( over boiling point except for the glycol mixes added )

this cannot be a good thing

boiling fuel 1520678_10200244475594765_192450495_n

.boiling fuel 1526164_10200247721795918_1080171010_n


boiling fuel 2013-019


hope that is a primer for heat issues

good luck !


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%Oboiling fuel Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

4Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 8:44 am

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
Team, he's living in Canada! Probably happy his nuts are just about to defrost :-).

Have a look in the tank with the engine running, it could be that you have a leaking pressure line or the filter and this might spill over into the tank breather line that exits on the right-aft side under the tank. Or just fuelled up with the tank brim-full?


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) boiling fuel Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

5Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 8:55 am

floyd

floyd
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Charlie,

Great info there mate!

Where did you (and you too RIckG) source your fuel coolers from? Is calling the wreckers and asking for a small automatic transmission cooler going to get the result im after? Oh, I see yours is an oil cooler Charlie...off a motorcycle?

Also, where did you get your aircon pipe insulation?

Oh, and (sorry...) is the thermostat a standard item available at an auto shop?

My fan is seized too...need to sort that bugger out.


__________________________________________________
K100 with lots of K1100 bits - mongrel of a thing...
    

6Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 9:00 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
I got mine from the local auto shop and it is exactly the same as Charlie's


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

7Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 9:08 am

AJ.Valente

AJ.Valente
Life time member
Life time member
Well, I can see Canada from my rear deck (just kidding). And, I've been experimenting with adding insulation to various regions. So far, no tank heating, but the real weather is not for another month. :@: 

Right behind the fan is a well on top of the engine where I've added a thick piece of insulation (square). Also, under the tank, on top of the wiring at either side of the frame, is added two strips of insulation. Then, when assembling the RT faring, added two more strips of insulation under the glove boxes extending back to roughly where the trim dives down in front of the knee.

The purpose of all these little bits is to keep the heat from rising up and around the tank.

The last piece of the puzzle is to fiber-wrap the header pipes. I've acquired the wrap, but have switched to custom exhaust this year and so haven't used it. Fiber wrap keeps heat from the pipes from rising, and helps make the engine run more efficiently (read, more horsepower). I'm surprised nobody has suggested this before, it seems a natural solution especially since the pipes are stainless and not prone to rust.

I doubt these ideas will will work for the deserts of Australia, but should be enough for this part of the world.


__________________________________________________
'98 K1200RS Marrakesh Red

My old K100 RT Pics and Mods
    

8Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 10:29 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Got any dyno results to prove that wrapping the headers measurably improves HP?

Without real data, I'm not buying it.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

9Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 10:38 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
If you are running a turbo it can have a bit of an advantage (as in heat is energy and get it to the turbo, don't lose it before it gets there) but I have never heard that it is better for a naturally aspirated engine


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

10Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Wed May 14, 2014 12:55 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
Floyd   the bmw thermostat would probably just need replacing  and may be the best option for most everybody ,

but if you are up for a challenge 

you can read what I did  here

http://www.k100-forum.com/t1833p650-85-rt-resto-my-attempt-hey-im-not-into-making-a-show-bike#88242

I also documented the cooler in the same thread
this might not be a recommendation for of us that travel in cooler climates


the airconditioning insulation is easy to find ...most hardware stores carry it  I think 12 mm id is a fairly common size  and it does expand around the fuel pipe quite easily ( the external diameter is about 40mm x 1 metre long ) it adds a heap of thermal insulation numbers

the blanket type heat shield mod under the fuel tank is also employed by quite a few folks with good results


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%Oboiling fuel Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

11Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Thu May 15, 2014 1:24 am

k-wopper

k-wopper
Silver member
Silver member
Hi guys,
Well those responses have given me much insight, including that Sarah Palin has moved to New Hampshire and bought a motorcycle (USA in-joke but may be enjoyed by Canadians and Aussies too if they think their politicians are balmy).
With the temperature fluctuations here I may hold off on the in-line cooler unless I find something appropriate and concentrate on insulating the lines and maybe a thicker tank pad for now.
Much thanks,
Rob

    

12Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Thu May 15, 2014 9:33 am

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
Silver member
Silver member
Google "Johnny Blanket.  It may help with the heat to the tank and to you.  I have the name of a gentleman that makes a form of the old K-Guards if you're interested in moving the heat away from your legs

    

13Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Thu May 15, 2014 10:55 am

japuentes

japuentes
Life time member
Life time member
Hi there, I live in a tropical desert (rains less than 600mm/year) day temp from 31 to 40+, use to climb from sea level to near 1200 or +4000mts, many times on heavy traffic. Had a fuel boiling issue while testing / restoring the bike, and that was here at home, but since put the tank and fuel lines isolation never again.
Best regards
JAP


__________________________________________________
boiling fuel 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

14Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Fri May 16, 2014 2:46 am

k-wopper

k-wopper
Silver member
Silver member
hey,
I went for nice long warm pre-summer evening ride tonight. Ahhhhh! The reason for motorcycling all came back to me. The magic returned and I am hooked again.
I'll look into that Johnny blanket but since I wasn't in stop-and-go traffic the temperature didn't seem that bad.
On JAP's comment on riding at altitude I do not have the plug-in devise with my tool-kit. There is a two prong female recepticle just below the left side of the fuel tank by the coil cover. Is this the altitude plug and if so does the plug require any resistance or is it just a shunt?
Ride on,
Rob


Hee, hee... Just Googled "Johnny blanket" and E-bay wanted me to bid on a blanket once sweated on by Johnny Depp!
Will be going to Home Depot tomorrow for the real one.

    

15Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Fri May 16, 2014 9:40 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
don't forget to get a new thermostat ...and get it fitted  
just a heads up


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%Oboiling fuel Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

16Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Fri May 16, 2014 3:10 pm

japuentes

japuentes
Life time member
Life time member
There is a two prong female recepticle just below the left side of the fuel tank by the coil cover. Is this the altitude plug and if so does the plug require any resistance or is it just a shunt?
Hi, I´ve read both, shunt and resistance, did try the shunt and it´s been working for the last 6 years.
Best regards
JAP


__________________________________________________
boiling fuel 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

17Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Fri May 16, 2014 8:50 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
It is a shunt and changes the signal from the throttle position sensor that the computer sees


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

18Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Sat May 17, 2014 6:00 am

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
k-wopper-w900 wrote:hey,
There is a two prong female recepticle just below the left side of the fuel tank by the coil cover. Is this the altitude plug and if so does the plug require any resistance or is it just a shunt?
Ride on,
Rob

Before putting a shunt or a resistor, be sure that this is the altitude plug.
Some bikes have a 2 prongs socket (white color) to power a BMW powerlet socket.
boiling fuel 12v_din_powerlet_bmw_socket_4


__________________________________________________
boiling fuel Frog15boiling fuel Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    


20Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Sat May 17, 2014 11:05 am

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
Silver member
Silver member
You're referring to the altitude plug as the small cylindrical plug wire tied to the frame, correct?  It is a shunt and the loop insert completes the connection.  It just makes leans out the mixture to accommodate +3000' (1000 meter) thinner air. (partial pressure of O2)  If it is something you need to use regularly, you can cut the plug and add a dash switch Hazard switch works fine. To make it clear what it does, scrape the bottom leg off a hazard symbol inset so it looks like a mountain  ^

    

21Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Sun May 18, 2014 2:16 am

k-wopper

k-wopper
Silver member
Silver member
yeah it's seems to match up with the description of the altitude plug. It's just that I couldn't find a picture of it to be sure. I do have a factory aux plug next to it with 12vdc. There is no voltage or continuity through the alt sw though.
 If I ride more than one hour East or North it would come in handy because we got plenty o' big hills here and a dash switch with a mountain logo would be cool.
Thanx
Rob

    

22Back to top Go down   boiling fuel Empty Re: boiling fuel on Sat May 31, 2014 1:36 pm

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
Silver member
Silver member
Found this and it covers how to do the switch


Excerpt from:
THE BMW WORLD
AN INTRODUCTION FOR NEW BMW OWNERS OR POTENTIAL OWNERS
Copyright 1991 D. Eilers.

High-altitude Operation

The K bikes have a small socket in the wiring harness which accepts a plug containing a resistor. The resistor "fools" the computer into thinking less air is flowing past the airflow sensor by purposely "miscalibrating" the sensor. This effectively leans-out the mixture -- exactly what you want for high altitude operation. The plug costs about $6 and should be used if you go much above about 4,000 feet for best performance. The plug does make a difference -- my K bike would not idle in the Colorado Rockies without it, but ran fine with it. Some people who frequently ride the mountains wire the plug through an accessory switch (available from BMW) to make the change to high- altitude mode as easy as the flick of a switch. The newer "Motronic" engine computer introduced on the 1990 K-1 model eliminates this need by using a barometric sensor to automatically adjust for any changes in altitude. Motronic is now also on the 1991 K100RS. 


So, I plugged the resistor into the harness and split the loop of wire coming out of it. I soldered a 16" piece of double wire to a rocker switch from radio shack boiling fuel 275-693
that I attached through a hole I drilled in the black plastic cover on the bottom of my left fairing just next to the throttle body. The switch is hidden from view down there, but you can reach it while riding. During the summer while riding in the Sierras it was a pain in the butt pulling over and installing the loop. Not anymore.

    

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