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1Back to top Go down    Clutch cables on Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:39 am

k-wopper

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Hi guys,
When I got my k-bike 2 months ago it had been sitting un-ridden for two years. I planned on replacing seals,rubbers and bushings anyway so when the clutch cable snapped on the test ride home it wasn't to be un-expected. I ordered an new cable (OEM) from the local independent dealer. 
While waiting for the cable I had plenty of time to strip down the drive train up to and including the clutch. I was extremely pleased with the condition of all the parts and re-built my way out with as much new stuff as it needed.
The new cable arrived ($70.00 USD! seemed high compared to on-line but it was a genuine part) installation and adjusting was easy and right by the manual. 
I was on the road with no complaints. 300km later about 5 miles from home I pulled the lever in and....no resistance! Cable snapped clean at the knob to the lever end.
S>O>B!!!! Push started it into 1st and limped home with the 4-way flashers on. Pretty easy on the straights even into second, but there were 6 stop lights and 4-way stop signs to negotiate (round-a-bouts rule) so this took a bit of finesse but I made it.
Off to the dealer in the car (oh yeah, beautiful riding day ruined) with a bad temper.
Walk in, show him the part and my reciept and say "looks like I got a bad one". 
"Oh no" he says "this is a common problem and BMW does not warranty it even if you replace the round barrel insert. You did buy a new barrel and use lube when installing?
"Er, lube yes. The old barrel looked perfect".
Well it seems that you are required to replace the barrel with cable replacement, so WHY THE **** doesn't the new cable come with one!
 I didn't lose my nut, which turned out to be a good thing but my blood pressure was quickly rising.
I now must order a new cable which isn't in stock "but we do have the barrels in stock for $8.00 USD."

Zen, calm, zen, oohm, any thing but destroy everything in sight!!!
 It a turns out the store guy, who is the owner, was able to placate my ire by giving me a used cable (4" longer so I think it's for a RT) so I would not be deprived of my riding pleasure. This was a decent, and wise, offer on his part even though I had to dig through his junk bin for it. 
So now the used cable is on and working with my new $8.00 barrel and when my "new" cable comes in he will only charge me cost ($50.00 USD)

So, what did we learn from this?
It seems that a new lever barrel is a good investment against a broke cable and potential break-down in a bad situation.
And it's better to stay calm as in "Don't Panic" even when you don't have a towel.
Push on,
Rob

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:06 am

RicK G

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It takes months of riding for a dry barrel to cause the cable to snap. When the barrel is dry it wont pivot and causes the cable to break a strand at a time, so tell him he is talking bullshit.

Have a look underneath, the side stand has a mechanism that makes it retract when you pull the clutch in and if this is not adjusted correctly then it puts an enormous strain on the cable.
The other possibility is a close to seized pivot on the clutch operating arm on the rear of the gearbox, I have seen these so tight that they will snap a cable.
Neither of them are the fault of the cable so you will have to fork out for another but he is still talking bullshit.
Most of these bastards will use any excuse they can to get out of a refund even when they dont have to give one. I think that they just can't help it.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:19 am

k-wopper

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Hi Rick,
The side stand retractor went bye-bye when I had the bike apart. 
I can remember to put my stand up when I start and my feet down when I stop with out help lol! 

Also the the push rod lever (back of gearbox) can be operated by hand with-out too much difficulty. Less than 1% of the tensile (or one one-hundreth of that) of the
Clutch cable. All properly lubed and aligned.

It will take a week or two before the new cable is in so by then I should have my ducks-in-a-row for a strong rebuttal. 
Or maybe I'll just keep the used one? We'll see.
Thanks
Rob

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Kioors

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Ok, I see I'm not alone with this problem then.

My daily ride (K100RS16v) has also been having a great appetite for clutch cables lately. On average every 4-5000 kms one goes.
A short summary: First cable snapped -> replaced (and of course lubed)-> second snap -> replaced together with the barrel -> third snap -> getting up to k-wopper's level of frustration...

I now started inspecting the lever more in detail, and noticed that what does the bending, is not the barrel gripping, but the cable sticking in the "take-out-channel" in the lever.
I think that when the lever gets a bit too much free play and the barrel can drop about 1mm and that causes the cable to hit the channel wall. You notice this when you slowly release the lever, and you feel a slight 'click' just before it is comletely released.

I am going to try inserting a new lever, and rounding off the channel wall with a file. Hope it does the trick...


P.S.: Damn you, designer of this lever! I hope your own cable snaps in front a group very beautiful women!   Twisted Evil


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS 16v
1991 K100RS 16v - For sale
1993 Ducati 750 SS - For sale
1992 Ducati 907i.e.
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:29 pm

Two Wheels Better

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A new K-RS clutch cable is US$40, a K-RT/LT cable is $39 and a new 'barrel' is $6 from most US dealers. Seems as though Canadians have to pay a premium too.


__________________________________________________
 

'77 R75/7-1000cc, '87 K100RS, '93 K12 Big Block, '94 R100 Mystic, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150RT, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R & '09 K1300GT
Two Airheads, three Bricks, an Oilhead and a trio of new K's.
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:46 am

k-wopper

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hi guys,
We Canadians always pay a higher price. I think it's from us just being too polite to tell them to stick it Twisted Evil when we disagree!
The barrel dropping problem can be mitigated by the felt guide piece in the lever. I'm not sure if this is a stock part though.
It's about 4mm thick with a groove that the cable rides in and if it's not supposed to be there it looks like it should be.
If not I'll include a picture in response.
I am still using the "temporary" clutch cable even though the dealer has left me a few messages about the new one being in.
I just completed an 800km trip to the west coast of Vancouver Island on Hyw 4 (a wonderful old lumpy twisty road) where at then end in Tofino you can watch the sunset on Japan. 
The clutch cable and the rest of rest of the bike performed flawlessly cheers . I think I'll keep them both for a while.
Ride on,
Rob

    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:27 am

Kioors

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Ah, yes the felt. I do have that too, but it doesn't keep the barrel from dropping unfortunately. Is the felt liner to be placed into lever then? I always thought the reason for that felt liner was just to keep water and dirt out of the bowden-tube.

And for comparing, I paid 37€ for each cable..


__________________________________________________
1989 K100RS 16v
1991 K100RS 16v - For sale
1993 Ducati 750 SS - For sale
1992 Ducati 907i.e.
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:01 am

robmack

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@Two Wheels Better wrote:A new K-RS clutch cable is US$40, a K-RT/LT cable is $39 and a new 'barrel' is $6 from most US dealers. Seems as though Canadians have to pay a premium too.
We pay double the price shown in RealOEM.  Robbery!  Don't get me started on a simple recall clearance letter from BMW when importing a motorcycle -- $500 (other manufacturers charge nothing).


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:51 pm

ungaas

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My theory on why the barrel drops is that the "clutch arm" bearings on the gearbox are either dry or shot and are not allowing the spring on the rear end of the push rod to keep the tension.

I had this problem myself,but it's  disappeared since replacing the clutch arm bearings. 

 


__________________________________________________
88 K100 Unfaired 0033026 
   
92 K1100RT  6455097
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:53 pm

duck

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Can't hurt to pull the clutch arm pivot rod and relube the needle bearings in there.

In all of my K riding I've never had a clutch cable break.  (However, I do always carry a spare on all of my Ks so that's probably why. Very Happy )


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:25 pm

RicK G

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I have never had one break but down to its last strand and doing a lot of clutch-less shifting and praying.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:14 pm

brickrider

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If I were asked to pay the prices described here, I'd be looking at after market replacements!  Those are just over the top, unreasonable.  What about Venthill (sp?) in G.B.? or Flanders in California?  I'm certain they could provide what you need at a small fraction of the prices you've quoted here.

    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:19 pm

AL-58

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@RicK G wrote:I have never had one break but down to its last strand and doing a lot of clutch-less shifting and praying.
I had to nurse a cable that had only 3 strands left on my last leg home once, 700km to go not a dealer in sight and it was a public holiday anyway.

We replanned the route home to avoid any major towns that had traffic lights to dodge as many stop/starts as possible, took many backroad detours.  The Bike/sidecar and camper trailer weighed in at 880kg with me and the dog onboard so it wasn't going to be easy to get it going if it snapped completely.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:39 pm

Two Wheels Better

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We pay double the price shown in RealOEM.  Robbery!  Don't get me started on a simple recall clearance letter from BMW when importing a motorcycle -- $500 (other manufacturers charge nothing).
That's BMW Canada who require the recall certification letter in order that a bike from the US be brought in over the Canadian border for sale there. We get people (Canadian buyers, mostly, but some US sellers too) regularly tirading at us as though we're in cahoots somehow. I just chuckle and tell 'em, yep, and JFK is still alive and well, Elvis lives in a green and yellow velvet-covered room inside a volcano in Hawaii and Vladimir Putin is really a nice guy deep down inside.

The truly funny part is that anyone employed at a dealership in the US can print those recall letters off the BMW computer without anyone knowing a thing about it. But I don't. Hmm, pssst, hey buddy, wanna buy a BMW recall certification letter cheap!?



__________________________________________________
 

'77 R75/7-1000cc, '87 K100RS, '93 K12 Big Block, '94 R100 Mystic, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150RT, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R & '09 K1300GT
Two Airheads, three Bricks, an Oilhead and a trio of new K's.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:30 am

petek100rs

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I have gone through 4 cables in 2 years on my k100rs 16valve. I bought replacements from motohansa and was charged $70 per cable. I have established a routine were I lube the barrel and adjust the cable if needed every 2000km and this last cable has hung on the longest. I rode jap bikes for 25 years and have never suffered a clutch cable break. I rode an 8 valve for 4 years and didnt have any issues. Never lubed the barrel once.

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:44 am

Inge K.

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I must say that there are large variations in the consumption of clutch cables.

On my oldest K I've changed the clutch cable one time during 16 years and 200K km's.
I wasn't because of that it did break, it just become very stiff to operate.......
I would guess it was caused by the innerliner was very worn.

It's a self retracting sidestand, so no extra stress on the cable caused by a retracting mechanism.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:34 am

RicK G

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Does it usually break at the top end at the barrel Pete.  Over the years here we are often hearing about this clutch cable breaking quite often but never seem to get any answers that are a good lead.
I have a feeling that some dealers are selling non OEM for big profit.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:54 pm

AL-58

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Both of my breakages have been at the top, but two separate bikes.  One was the high km Black K100 that Rick disassembled all over the country :pale: the other was a 16v.  The thing both had in common was a sidecar fitted, bar risers and both had done a few kms.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:40 am

petek100rs

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All four of mine have been at the top, same place exactly. very iritating. My pivit at the back of the gearbox moves freely. I dont     think anyone could     dispute bmw make a    fine motorcycle and   that  bmw has beauty       of a bike in the k series. I have been  dreaming of a k100 hrd    outfit since I first saw      an article in two wheels. Mick matherson had one and I fell in love. I    couldnt be happier  with my rig. it has been all and more than I could hope for.the motor/gearbox are tough as they come but it is a bike plagued by iritating weeknesses like this

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:07 am

AL-58

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@petek100rs wrote:All four of mine have been at the top, same place exactly. very iritating. My pivit at the back of the gearbox moves freely. I dont     think anyone could     dispute bmw make a    fine motorcycle and   that  bmw has beauty       of a bike in the k series. I have been  dreaming of a k100 hrd    outfit since I first saw      an article in two wheels. Mick matherson had one and I fell in love. I    couldnt be happier  with my rig. it has been all and more than I could hope for.the motor/gearbox are tough as they come but it is a bike plagued by iritating weeknesses like this

I dont think we get the same corrosion problems as the UK.  Never heard of the clutch pivot being a problem here at all.

Re: Mick Mathesons K100 outfit.  He lived in the old gatehouse of a lighthouse in the eastern suburbs and left the bike parked outside in the salt air.  Move on a few years and the alloy on the K had just about rotten away completely so he was selling the sidecar bits on to anyone that could use them.  The sidecar went to a Goldwing owner, I bought the leading link and fitted it to my first 16v sidecar, the subframe went to Sidecar Steve (The nice blue K100RT oufit that was for sale last year at the Far Cairn. Mick is a good bloke all Steve had to pay was the freight cost.  We also found a leading link for Steve from a burnt out K100 sidecar in a wrecker.

That's the art of building a sidecar in OZ, keep your eyes open and grab the bits when you can.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:55 am

Holister

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My clutch cable snapped a few weeks back as I pulled up in the driveway at home. Fortunately I was able to get to the kill switch before I went thru the garage door. Shocked 
It broke at the top. Luckily I had a spare.


__________________________________________________
1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:29 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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When I got my LT I got some work done, including new clutch cable.

When I got the RT it was fine but in April put in a new cable. It had become extremely stiff. Out of sight, where the end inner disappears into the outer cable, concealed under the gear box, it was down to a few strands. It was also incorrectly routed. New cable feels so light. The end arm etc all in good order.

The LT had the side stand retracting link, the guy forgot about that and broke the cable. But the old one had been frayed so it was a good call. With the enw cable in this worked a treat

The RT had the self retracting side stand which mean I couldn't get off the bike. I discovered that when I took it for a test ride and the handling was off, went to a petrol station to inflate the tyres and couldn't get the stand to stay down. Went back to the sellers place and did a deal, provided he cut the self retracting mechanism. I do have to remember to raise the side stand but I generally try to use the main stand so its not too much of an issue.

The BMW cable is much thicker than the pattern ones, stick with the BMW cable.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 58,645 now 60,500 miles
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:15 am

AJ.Valente

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Ya, I'm going to replace my cable this winter. I think two years is enough for a clutch cable. Plus, it keeps me in practice on how to do it.

Ya-know, I had the auto-retract on my old R90S, and really liked it. Put the stand down at a stop light, then just raise the bike up and go! Somewhat of a problem if you bumped the bike while it was parked, but I could pick it up by positioning the handlebars to the inside to gain maximum leverage (did that more than once too). 

My RT weighs about 100lb more than the old R90, particularly with the farings, etc. I tried picking it up one time using the same trick, but couldn't.  Crying or Very sad 

So, if you have auto-retract and don't want it, the easiest way is just to unclip one of the springs (the rear one I believe). That way the stand will stay down on the forward spring, but not auto-retract when you take the weight off.


__________________________________________________
'98 K1200RS Marrakesh Red

My old K100 RT Pics and Mods
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:09 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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All that chatter about clutch cables last Jul/Aug, encouraged me to get and carry a spare cable. Today I was glad I had.

Riding though the city this morning, the feel of the clutch went (spongy feel) and a few gear shifts later (up into 5th) the cable parted at the handlebar lever end. Managed to ride the last 5 miles into work using clutch-less gear changes but it was hard work when forced to stop/pull away at traffic lights and roundabouts .

Disappointed to find that this is yet another LH upper fairing and tank off job - the cable is zip tied in at least 3 places, so there is no option of using the old cable to pull through the new one with out removing these lumps and cutting off the old zip clips. 

Decided that this was not a job for a wet and cold works carpark, so I jury rigged the new cable around the tank and over the fairing (held in place with zip ties). Successfully rode home  (awarding myself K points for not resorting to calling out the breakdown recovery truck - actually, I was more concerned that the recovery people would default to taking me to the nearest BMW dealer and I'd need a second mortgage to pay for the work that was well within my capabilities).

Fairly straight forward job, new cable routed correctly (about 1.5 hours including fairing and tank removal) and new "touring spare" clutch cable on order! Having read back through the previous posts on the subject, I have also ordered a new barrel (nipple holder) - can't really see how this would contribute to the failure of the cable provided it is lubed and not binding (nothing obviously wrong with the old one), but better safe than sorry I guess, even though £4.50 seems like daylight robbery.


__________________________________________________
 
                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:39 pm

RicK G

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I carry a spare cable and barrel because last time a cable broke the barrel dropped out never to be seen again.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:39 pm

Packo

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Like Rick I too have a spare nipple as they do drop out but my spare cable is routed alongside and zip tied to the current one in use. Simple task to change over to the spare when needed and I don't have to try to remember where I put it when fully loaded.


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD outfit
77 R100RS
2008 K1200S
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:07 pm

blaKey

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Mine let go a week or so ago, at the handlebar end. Original cable I believe. Not bad. Over the previous couple of days, there was an increase of play at the handlebar lever. It was going to check it that weekend, but it crapped itself before I could get to it. 

By the looks, the ferrule/nipple (snort, giggle) came away from the cable...and that bloody barrel! It's sitting alone on a highway near where I live. I hope it's suffering!


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

Remember Rule No. 6
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:53 am

Born Again Eccentric

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As soon as the post arrives, I will have a spare nipple/barrel to go with my spare cable... lesson learnt.

I like your idea Packo of routing the spare cable alongside the working one - with suitable protection to the ends so that it doesn't quietly rot away and become useless. I think my break was on the original clutch cable (nothing is previous service records to indicated that it had been changed before) - so the spare could be in place for quite a long time.

I totally get the need for carrying a spare nipple/barrel as the previous is likely to fall out some time between cable break and stopping - with the cable gone, there is nothing but grease & dirt holding it in place and gravity & vibration doing their utmost to make it disappear. Mine happened to be gummed in place, with some thick ancient grease, so remained with the bike - luckily for me. I don't get why BMW would recommend replacing it as routine (if it is not lost)

As per previous posts, it is surprising that the nipple/barrel does not come with the new cable as standard.



Last edited by Born Again Eccentric on Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
 
                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:48 am

charlie99

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I recon the nipple - barrel distorts somewhat over the years and in that, distorts- wears  the lever housing where the barrel sits ...giving a slightly off centre wear mark into the lever socket ....once this happens (and we have seen it a few times in fact ) that wear (or distortion of the socket ) will be ongoing whilst it is in place ...yes the new nipple barrel is good to go ...but the wear in the lever is going to at some stage drag the barrel into the same wear pattern and sheer the cable after a short while .

the main reason for the failure is that the cable is being dragged at some sort of offset to a direct inline pull across the lever assembly cutout  which wears the cable just by sheer contact and  leverage as the lever is pulled back ...fracturing the single elements of the core as it passes the keyway  till such time that the load exceeds the cable strength of the remaining good portions of that cable  

I think if you have had this happen have a really good look at the lever itself ...after installation of the new barrel and cable ...if the cable even looks close to be near the keyway as it is loaded up ....change the lever before you start fracturing a new cable and distorting the wear pattern on the barrel .

um lubrication of the lever pivot points is often overlooked .....what was it you said BAE "gummed in place, with some thick ancient grease " ....lol

good luck with the new cable and bits

just some thought from down here


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:33 am

Born Again Eccentric

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Good points Charlie.

Wearing of the lever could well be the root cause of repeated failures - several previous posts talk to changing many clutch cables in a relatively short period of time. The clutch lever is some Aluminium alloy, so would take the wear rather than the steel nipple/barrel insert. Previous posts also talk to the new nipple/barrel insert dropping a little - again this would align with the lever housing having become worn. I shall have a close look at mine - especially as I have noted that my (cleaned up) original nipple/barrel insert does now seem to drop by about 1mm.

Lubrication of the pivot point - yes, I think you are bang on the money there too! Coincidentally, yesterday happened to be the first anniversary of me owning this particular bike and, with 14,673 miles ridden in that year, I can't really blame the PO!

I just rang James Sherlock to add a new clutch lever to my order (managed to get hold of them just before my original order was about to be sent out - phew) £39.36 - money well spent if it is going to prevent repeated cable failures at £25+ a time.

I have given myself a good telling off for not lubricating the pivot points!and no Guinness until after tea!!


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                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

31Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:55 am

WoodyAUK75

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I have had to change mine twice in 11 years, both times the nipple holder (oo-err) has disappeared. The first time I got a venhill, think it was about $70 from the BM Shop, the last time I got an OEM through the local bike shop and was surprised it was only $60. Even more surprised when I got it and there was no nipple holder. Even more surprised when I was informed they were $30. Anyway, I put it on with some lube this time and I will see how it lasts. The last ones were pretty evenly spaced, about five years apart.

    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:32 pm

sidecar paul

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It's easy to overlook the needle bearings in the clutch arm behind the gearbox. If they are stuffed then that puts an extra load on the clutch cable.

Paul.


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'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
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33Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Dai

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Easy test - unhook the cable from the clutch arm, pull the clutch arm forward with the fingers until it's against the clutch spring pressure and then let go. If it doesn't hit the exhaust pipe under its own weight then the bearings need looking at. Chances are that the pivot is corrosion-welded into the arm (mine is); I cleaned the shite off and applied large quantities of GT85 to the bearings and wiggled the arm about until the arm behaved itself. At some point I still have to remove the gearbox and get that pivot out, but for now...

I make my own cables - have done for the last twenty-five or so years. Teflon-lined cables look good on paper but they quickly gather crud into the first four-to-six inches at either end and seize up. I use bog-standard No.4 or No.5 Bowden cable and lubricate on a regular basis. Because I buy Bowden cable 'in bulk' it costs about £5 and thirty minutes construction time per clutch cable (including nipples).


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:06 am

charlie99

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@sidecar paul wrote:It's easy to overlook the needle bearings in the clutch arm behind the gearbox. If they are stuffed then that puts an extra load on the clutch cable.

Paul.

yes indeed paul

hiding down there they corrode like crazy

mine felt ok ...till load was applied ...crikey the bearings were well and truly binding up
I guess there is a lot of merit for doing the grease nipple mod on that arm ...not only for the ability to repack the bearings ...but with grease in there it could extend the lifetime of those things just by pure exclusion of external wetness getting in there in the first place ...they do sit in a prime spray location ...
might add that extending the read guard down past the swing arm could well help as well

just some thoughts


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'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:33 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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@Born Again Eccentric wrote:Wearing of the lever could well be the root cause of repeated failures - several previous posts talk to changing many clutch cables in a relatively short period of time. The clutch lever is some Aluminium alloy, so would take the wear rather than the steel nipple/barrel insert. Previous posts also talk to the new nipple/barrel insert dropping a little - again this would align with the lever housing having become worn. I shall have a close look at mine - especially as I have noted that my (cleaned up) original nipple/barrel insert does now seem to drop by about 1mm.

OK, so being the geek I am, having received my brand new clutch lever and nipple/barrel insert today, I removed the old clutch lever and, before fitting the new one I did some side by side investigation...





As the photos clearly show, there is significant wear on the underside of the lever on the leading edge of the nipple/barrel recess. This allows the nipple/barrel to cant over in the recess and drop (by about 1mm) when the clutch lever is operated. Over time, the misalignment is likely to cause wear on the clutch cable and eventually individual strands will start breaking, As more strands break, the load on the remaining stands will increase, until there is insufficient strength in the cable to operate the clutch mechanism and it parts completely. Any additional load on the cable, such as badly adjusted side stand retract mechanism or dodgy needle bearings in the clutch arm (as suggested by Rick & SCP) will exacerbate the problem and lead to earlier cable failure.

So, if this theory is true (and not a crock of the proverbial), with a worn clutch lever, simply replacing the cable and the nipple/barrel merely resets the failure clock - but the new nipple/barrel will be misaligned from the outset, so wear will start to occur immediately and the life of the new cable will be considerably shorter than the original. 

Moral of the story...check your lever and replace it if there are signs of excessive wear.  Apart from the obvious visual signs of wear, a key symptom of the potential problem is the tendency of the nipple/barrel to drop once wear has occurred...so watch out for droopy nipples!!

I really must get out more...


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                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

36Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:42 pm

charlie99

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i'd be interested to see the new lever keyway bae

as in the same closeup as the one you posted

my thoughts are the cable gland coming through the nipple interferes with the keyway bending that gland in relationship to the cable as the lever is activated

your old lever seems to have a good wear mark down inside the keyway  illustrating the distorted pull effect



great pics by the way
im sure you have solved some issues and a good explanation


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

37Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:13 pm

Born Again Eccentric

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Charlie,

Some more pics - couldn't quite get the same angle - but set side by side for comparison. The bit you red arrowed was a bit of swarf sticking up rather than a noticeable wear mark on the key way

 

Where there was significant wear (which could only have come from the clutch cable) was as shown below, by my reckoning, the cable could only make contact in that location when the clutch lever was pulled in and if the barrel/cable were misaligned (amendment to my initial comment, now that the lever is back on the bike and I can see clearly what is happening). Any contact, but particularly when the cable is under maximum load, will shorten the life of the cable).



Incidentally, I cleaned up the old nipple/barrel and compared it with the new one - I couldn't see any sign of wear at all (no great surprise there as it is some form of steel and therefore considerably harder than the alloy lever it is housed in).

Anyway, based on what I have found, I think I made absolutely the right decision to get a new clutch lever for the new cable. Heres to getting the next 48,000 miles out of this combination.



Last edited by Born Again Eccentric on Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correction to comments - contact could only happen when the clutch lever is pulled in and not when released, as first stated.)


__________________________________________________
 
                              Paul  

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

38Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:54 am

k-wopper

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Seems like this thread got a new life.
I'm still using the "temporary" RT clutch cable that I got from the dealers junk pile. Did install the new "nipple" though and have put 9000km on the bike. I'm thinking maybe BMW just made a bunch of crap cables and tried to pass them of as high dollar OEM's. Remember my brand new out-of-the-package cable only lasted 300km's.
Impossible to make a case in court but the idea of having after-market ones made is the way I'm going in the future. Should have learned the lesson on hydraulic tractor hoses as no-one buys those factory.
On a happy note the weather is warm and the bike has a new paint job and rides great.
This site is great for this sort of information and camaraderie. 
Ride on,
Rob

file:///.file/id=6571367.7894610


p.s. photo not loading



Last edited by k-wopper on Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:03 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : photo)

    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:52 am

K100LT Notts

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I experienced this eating of cables 2 in a year together with "rescue" to nearest BMW agent after giving up on riding clutch less each time.
The solution was a new lever, lever pin, nipple and cable.
At the bottom end I use liberally the lithium spray on grease used by Volkswagen for door hinges. I know when it needs reapplying in that area when main stand stops lifting quickly. ☺

    

40Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:52 pm

orforester

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Ok, I need to add my two cents in here.  I went through a clutch cable a year on my RS, lubed the barrel, then I found out I was missing the "Feltring" part number 32 72 1 231 610 from the inside of the channel where the cable goes.  From the moment I put one of those in till now (three years) no broken cable.  I still have a spare in place ready for use, but no need. 

Bob


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41Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:02 pm

blaKey

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Hey Bob, I've seen the felt ring thing on the parts fiche (I'm missing mine), but where exactly does it go? I've bought a couple, one to fit, one for spare.

Thanks.


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K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

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42Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:08 am

charlie99

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good work for posting bob ... many like myself, have never seen one .


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

43Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:45 am

rosskko

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I greased my nipples, but I think they need to be felt


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1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

44Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:24 am

Holister

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@blaKey wrote:Hey Bob, I've seen the felt ring thing on the parts fiche (I'm missing mine), but where exactly does it go? I've bought a couple, one to fit, one for spare.

Thanks.
The felt ring slips over the very end of the cable inner and sits inside the lever adjustment mechanism.


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1988 K100RT     VIN No.  0094680
1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
     Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
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45Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:00 am

WoodyAUK75

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@rosskko wrote:I greased my nipples, but I think they need to be felt
I know what you mean, I actually went so far as to ask the woman at the bike shop if she would try out my new nipple holder, just to make sure it would do the job.

    

46Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:28 pm

brickrider

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What is the purpose of this felt?  Is it "dry"? Saturated with oil or grease?

    

47Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:54 pm

Two Wheels Better

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The felt ring, like those on your clutch pushrod, or under fork boots on the sliders, is there to protect the innards from grit entering and possibly causing - no prizes for guessing - premature wear leading to breakage or other damage. It should be lightly oiled before installation, as should many of the essential things in life.


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'77 R75/7-1000cc, '87 K100RS, '93 K12 Big Block, '94 R100 Mystic, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150RT, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R & '09 K1300GT
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48Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:47 pm

orforester

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Sorry I was busy yesterday and didn't get back to post, but Kaptain gave a great picture.  I think the reason for the felt is to aline the cable with the barrel and keep everything form getting dirty.  It sure seemed to cure my problem cable breaking.  IF you lube the barrel and use the felt together your cable should last a long time.  And is does fit into the adjuster. 

Bob


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85 K 100 RT
    

49Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:40 pm

blaKey

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Well, I changed my clutch cable yesterday (genuine part).

Straight forward; taped the new to the old and dragged it through. I did have the felt in the old cable. Took the lever apart and cleaned everything. The lever isn't worn at all, but I bought one for a spare, just in case, along the nipple and the felt "ring".

Adjusted everything and all is good.

I'm thinking that the reason the hole (at the lever housing for the nipple) is underneath the housing (instead of on top) is for looks only.


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

Remember Rule No. 6
    

50Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch cables on Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:46 pm

Inge K.

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@blaKey wrote:I'm thinking that the reason the hole (at the lever housing for the nipple) is underneath the housing (instead of on top) is for looks only.

It would collect a lot more dirt if it been the other way around.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

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