BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Smoke on start. Random? on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:55 pm

bignews1and2

bignews1and2
active member
active member
8 out of 10 times my 1985 K100 RT will smoke on start even if I lean it to the right first and then park on the center stand. It smokes for 10 to 30 seconds and then stops. I had previously searched the forum for "smoke" and read all the articles. Since it still happened on the center stand and I drained the oil and put exactly 3.6 quarts back in,  I started to think it was an O-ring. But now due to the randomness i think it has to do more with the design flaw later fixed. Do you have to leave the bike running while leaning to the right, shut off and hold for a bit more?

Also, whenever I use the side stand after a ride when some time has passed I can check the oil sight glass and it is white.
However when I use the center stand it always seems to stay black. Is the proper reading from this gauge supposed to be white on top and black on the bottom, red dot indicating the high point of oil?

Thanks!


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT 0052326
    

2Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:54 pm

Comberjohn

Comberjohn
Life time member
Life time member
Ah. No one has explained the secret of the K.
Forget about leaning to the right. It will fall over sooner or later.
Early K100's did not have the piston rings pinned, they can rotate, line up the gaps and let oil past for a while.
Best way to deal with it is to let the bike tick over for about 10 seconds when you pull up. Look cool removing your gloves or sunglasses and then switch off.
After that, it doesn't matter if its on the side or centre stand, it should be fine when you start up again.
Now you're one of us.Smoke on start. Random? 447221


__________________________________________________
Life is not a rehearsal.
2010 VFR 1200F DCT 
2010 R1200GS(gone)
1986 K100 Silver(gone)
2012 K1600GT(gone)
1984 K100RT Madison Silver(gone)
1989 K100LT Stratus Grey(gone)
1984 K100 Red(gone)
http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

3Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:59 pm

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
Silver member
Silver member
The sight glass will almost always be empty or white on the side stand as the oil is to the low side of the engine.  Full on the centerstand is to the middle red dot.

85 has non-pinned rings which move around and can let oil into the combustion chamber.  Comberjohn's suggestion works as well as any.  THe smoke does work well for keeping mosquitoes at bey

    

4Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 am

blaKey

blaKey
Life time member
Life time member
Just to clear up a misconception regarding the oil sight glass, the red circle is for the oil level...top of the circle is the upper limit and the bottom of the circle is the lower mark.

The red dot has nothing to do with the level of the oil.

...unless Inge chimes in and corrects me!  Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

5Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:46 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
We always learnt bike on main stand and the red dot for the oil level.

4 stroke engines don't normally have the piston rings pinned. But the engines are usually vertical or near vertical. So the ring end gaps eventually line up and you get. . . Smoke. So later engines have the rings pinned like in a 2 stroke so the ends of the rings don't break at the transfer ports.

Exactly as posted!

But, how come the boxers don't smoke!!! I bet they are pinned.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 98,780 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 32,600 miles
    

6Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:08 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
@blaKey wrote:Just to clear up a misconception regarding the oil sight glass, the red circle is for the oil level...top of the circle is the upper limit and the bottom of the circle is the lower mark.

 Smoke on start. Random? 112350  Just exactly, blaKey  Very Happy .


Smoke on start. Random? Oljeni10


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

7Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:30 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
That is a little book I don't have. But either way the red dot aimed for is fine. That's where I aim to keep it all the time.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 98,780 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 32,600 miles
    

8Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:10 am

bignews1and2

bignews1and2
active member
active member
@Comberjohn wrote:Ah. No one has explained the secret of the K.
Forget about leaning to the right. It will fall over sooner or later.
Early K100's did not have the piston rings pinned, they can rotate, line up the gaps and let oil past for a while.
Best way to deal with it is to let the bike tick over for about 10 seconds when you pull up. Look cool removing your gloves or sunglasses and then switch off.
After that, it doesn't matter if its on the side or centre stand, it should be fine when you start up again.
Now you're one of us.Smoke on start. Random? 447221
Thanks for the advice.
What I don't get is I'll start it up in the morning on the center stand. No Smoke. I'll give at few revs / let it idle for 30 seconds or so and then shut it off. I'll come back later in the day to go for a ride and it smokes. When you say "tick over" I assume you mean "idle"?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT 0052326
    

9Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:04 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
They all do it some more than others its no big deal and if anybody says anything about it just deny it and blame a honda


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

10Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:18 am

AJ.Valente

AJ.Valente
Life time member
Life time member
I somehow discovered that the bike doesn't always smoke.  Mad 

Seems like upon starting if the bike is allowed to idle for about a minute it doesn't smoke, or the smoke is greatly diminished. But, if I rev the engine right after starting I get a cloud of smoke.

(ComberJohn) Is your point: Allow the bike to idle while on the side stand(?), before switching-off. I don't understand: (Respectfully) Please explain how that makes a difference.


__________________________________________________
'98 K1200RS Marrakesh Red

My old K100 RT Pics and Mods
    

11Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:43 pm

Comberjohn

Comberjohn
Life time member
Life time member
Just let it idle(tick over) while sitting on it. Not on either stand.
Like I said, just look cool lifting your visor and taking off your gloves before switching off. Then put it on any stand you like.
Someone (Rick?) suggested that it might be caused by a gearwheel at the rear of the engine chucking oil at the bottom of the rearmost piston and by allowing things to settle down, lets oil drain from the back cylinder.
Its only a theory but it works for me!


__________________________________________________
Life is not a rehearsal.
2010 VFR 1200F DCT 
2010 R1200GS(gone)
1986 K100 Silver(gone)
2012 K1600GT(gone)
1984 K100RT Madison Silver(gone)
1989 K100LT Stratus Grey(gone)
1984 K100 Red(gone)
http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

12Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:06 pm

k-rider

k-rider
Life time member
Life time member
But, how come the boxers don't smoke!!! I bet they are pinned


nope ! well not all of them , a friend of mine have a R65 from around 1980 , he just had the cylinders done and all new rings , he had the shop fit the pistons in the cylinders , and then he put it all on the engine in his garage ,and it smoked like h..., after a LOT of talking back and forth, the shop admitted that they didnt take care place the ring gaps in opposite position , , when he did that the smoke dissapeared ,this means theres no pins for the rings , it also means that BMW expect the rings to stay in the same position ???




k-rider


13Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:51 pm

Comberjohn

Comberjohn
Life time member
Life time member
Maybe there is some truth in the theory about oil being thrown on to the bottom of the rear piston.
The boxer engine may not have the same issue.
However, weren't the later brick engines supplied with pinned rings?
Although, I have seen later bricks smoke a bit too.


__________________________________________________
Life is not a rehearsal.
2010 VFR 1200F DCT 
2010 R1200GS(gone)
1986 K100 Silver(gone)
2012 K1600GT(gone)
1984 K100RT Madison Silver(gone)
1989 K100LT Stratus Grey(gone)
1984 K100 Red(gone)
http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

14Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:20 pm

Ghost who rides

Ghost who rides
Life time member
Life time member
Airhead boxers DO smoke if left on sidestand which is why you rarely see them used. Also they were
very awkward to deploy, think toe extended under the left cylinder way forward, stand slips off toe and self retracts! Rider has to catch the weight with leg in less than ideal location.


__________________________________________________
1986  K 75 C   2nd owner 187,000kms showing .
1987  K100RT  Police repainted, rough and unloved.
    

15Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:37 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
I didn't think the boxer rings were pinned. Its a normal requirement for 2 stroke engines because of the transfer ports and making sure the ring ends don't eventually end up in the port and snap. as for how much a ring will migrate around its groove, I don't have a clue. I don't imagine this got a lot of thought at the time because its only a matter affect use of the side stand. A lot of engines have oil either splashing or spraying on the underside of the pistons and the piston rings keep it in the crank case. If there was an engine problem it would be burning oil all the time. However because it only happens on start up not much oil is lost. The upside is probably less wear in the bores and engine because of the oil in the bores.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 98,780 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 32,600 miles
    

16Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:49 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
One thing that I consider has a bearing is that if the cylinder that collects the oil has both valves closed then it burns the oil on start up but if the valves are on overlap then the oil gets into the exhaust pipe and takes ages to burn out because the exhaust has to get hot before it burns.
One more thing is don't believe that the pins to prevent the rings turning is a fix as all 3 Ks I have owned and ridden had the pined rings and all 3 smoked worse than George Burns with a dozen cigars.  It is a help but by no means a fix.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

17Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:15 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
I didn't mean to suggest pinning the rings would cure the smoking, it will only reduce it. I could also make my 92LT smoke as much as an early K........


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 98,780 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 32,600 miles
    

18Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:07 am

ltisz

ltisz
active member
active member
My K stopped smoking on startup after I replaced a very clogged fuel filter, oddly enough.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS
    

19Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Follow Up on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:06 pm

bignews1and2

bignews1and2
active member
active member
Took an Advanced Rider Safety Course Yesterday. There was a total of 11 starts I did over a total of 10 hours. 2 in the morning and the other 9 in the afternoon when we were at the course. I was starting the bike every half hour in the afternoon. I was worried I was going to smoke out the group so I tried to stay towards the back after each exercise. At each stop I let the engine idle while I took off my gloves & sunglasses. Then I stopped the bike and kept it straight up while I took off my helmet, put the gloves and glasses in it, lowered the side stand and dismounted.

It only smoked 2 of the 11 times.

Other note. The 7L fuel warning light came on early. The tank was very hot. I pulled into gas station on way home and then pulled out because I could see I had only used up "1 inch" of gas. I was hoping the half hour ride on the highway would cool the bike and turn the light off but it didn't. Let the bike cool for an hour at home ( watched second half of USA vs Portugal) and it was off.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT 0052326
    

20Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:43 pm

rawdonball

rawdonball
Platinum member
Platinum member
I just bought a K100RS '85 model with 170,000km on the clock from a guy who says he reduced the smoke on start up significantly when he changed out / renewed the valve stem seals. This is often a significant factor on higher mileage motorcar engines as we know so it's a possible contributory factor for those who suffer more than others (I guess?)


__________________________________________________
'88 K100RT, '86 K75C, '05 Yamaha TTR250
    

21Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:35 am

AJ.Valente

AJ.Valente
Life time member
Life time member
@bignews1and2 wrote:Took an Advanced Rider Safety Course Yesterday. There was a total of 11 starts I did over a total of 10 hours. 2 in the morning and the other 9 in the afternoon when we were at the course. I was starting the bike every half hour in the afternoon. . . .

Other note. The 7L fuel warning light came on early. The tank was very hot. I pulled into gas station on way home and then pulled out because I could see I had only used up "1 inch" of gas. I was hoping the half hour ride on the highway would cool the bike and turn the light off but it didn't. . . .
Typical heat problem on K100. I have the same model year.

Problem is, once the tank becomes overheated it stays that way. So, even if you let the bike sit, if it's a hot day, it won't make much difference. Also, riding down the road doesn't cool the tank much since the engine is constantly adding to the heat load.

For your situation, the only strategy I can suggest is on hot days to not fill the tank with more than 2-3 gallons. Then, when you get down to the red (4L) light, just add a single gallon or so. The gas at the station is stored underground and is cool. So, just drive a short distance, then add more cool fuel. That should keep the tank from becoming overheated.

One fix is to use a fuel line cooler (radiator), which I believe also circulates the fuel in the tank. This is more for more extreme environments (desert).

For the Northeast USA I've come up with my own solution that I'm testing this year for the first time. Basically, the strategy is to keep the heat from reaching the tank in the first place. So, I've added an insulation blanket on top of the engine block, insulation strips beneath the tank, and on the sides (inside) of the faring.

By keeping the heat away it stabilizes  tank temperature at some lower point. Also when going down the road it allows the tank to  cool down by convection with moving air. 

Why BMW didn't adequately insulate this bike is the big question. Be that as it may, so far the insulation seems to be working fine as I've not had one instance of overheating and I ride nearly every day. But, the real heat is yet to come this summer, so I'm not making any claims as of yet.  :suspect:


__________________________________________________
'98 K1200RS Marrakesh Red

My old K100 RT Pics and Mods
    

22Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:46 pm

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
Silver member
Silver member
Google Johnny Blanket.  It is an easy work around for heat in general.  
You can also insulate the return line from the fuel rail to the tank which will limit additional heat transfer from the engine and radiator. 
Both fixes are pretty inexpensive and rather effective.

    

23Back to top Go down   Smoke on start. Random? Empty Re: Smoke on start. Random? on Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:23 pm

AL-58

AL-58
Life time member
Life time member
My solution is to fit a sidecar.  The motor is never leant over, It never smokes.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

Smoke on start. Random? K-dogs10
    

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