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1Back to top Go down    New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:33 am

audibob

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Hi guys, I have changed my oil/water pump due to oil in coolant problems. Bought an exchange unit from moterwerks, but after fitting it, it leaked coolant from the exit passage on the sump plate . I used three bond 125 to seal the housings and left it 24 hrs to cure. There are no signs of leakage from the housing surfaces that I can see. Has anyone had a similar experience with an exchange unit?
or have I done something wrong?
Thanks for any assistance .
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

2Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:17 am

robmack

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Were you careful to apply the 3bond to the exact path recommended in the manual and use the sealant very sparingly? The weep hole may have been blocked by excessive sealant and the return oil is trying to find another path out.  See THIS post.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:45 am

audibob

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Hi Robmack, thanks for the reply. I was very careful to follow the correct path for the sealant. The coolant leaked straightaway after filling, and is very clean, no oil in it, therefore I suspect that the mechanical seal was not fitted correctly at moterwerks. I will ring them tomorrow.
Such a pain having to drain the oil again.
Thanks again
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

4Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:11 pm

orforester

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Mine also leaked coolant when I refilled it after install, but have you turned the motor over?  When I turned the motor the seal suck itself to the shaft, something about them needing to be turned to seal?  I too had my seals replaced by a shop and bitched at then for not fixing it, and he said turn the motor over first, worked like a charm.  No leaks.

It's a BMW!  Only way to explain.

Bob


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89 K 100 RS se
85 K 100 RT
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:28 pm

audibob

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Hi Bob, I filled the coolant before turning the motor over.  I ran her for a while after seeing the coolant escaping down the oil drain hole, but didn't make any difference. I did think it might help the seal to seat itself, but it didn't. I suspect the "0" ring on the water inlet may not have sealed, and  travelled to the oil escape exit hole. I will reseal the unit again tonight . Two gaskets would have been nice Mr BMW.
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

6Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:19 pm

audibob

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Not a happy bunny.
Refitted pump again, being careful with goo following clymer instructions again, left 24 hrs, and hey ho instant water loss from escape hole on sump face . why is the hole threaded, was it for engineering purposes whilst drilling the sump bolt threads?.
Ran motor to see if seal would bed in but NO.
Cannot see how I got it wrong twice. no leakages from mating surfaces anywhere.

Question to the bods.
If i place the pump with the water impeller upwards and flat, and carefully pour some water behind the impeller, if the seal is bad , then water should flow to the escape channel, as long as the oil seal is good . Am i correct with this theory?
Will have to send the unit back to moterwerks. Not impressed.
 Hopefully they will pay the cost of sending it back.

Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:54 pm

RicK G

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The ceramic seal is busted. very easy to do so take it back and tell them to fit it properly this time. A lot of them hammer the seal in and that is usually as successful as putting rocks and fine china in a cement mixer and expecting to get the rocks crushed.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

8Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:07 am

orforester

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Yep the seal is broken, sorry to tell you, take it off and buy two new seals.....been there done that myself. 

Bob


__________________________________________________
89 K 100 RS se
85 K 100 RT
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:41 am

audibob

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Thanks guys,
I must admit to be somewhat surprised at the instant coolant loss through the " escape tunnel" , twice even.
This then presents a problem,
1. Do I trust them with another unit.
2. If a second unit seals properly, how long might it last.
3. I get my money back and strip my unit and inspect it for  repair in terms of shaft condition and do it myself
4. If my unit is unserviceable do I spend more money and go to motobins for a new unit at nearly £300.
The bike is low miles at 43k and I intend keeping her a long time so I guess £300 is not bad  if my unit is in poor condition.
She will stay in the garage  for a while anyway whenever  the snow comes.

Go to buy a bloody car now to get to work. grrr
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

10Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:56 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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I was busy at work and got mind done by an ex BMW friend. The shaft was also gone. I had asked him to replace the lot but he ordered the repair kit then had to go back for the rest, all despite my early insistence that he order and put in the lot.

Anyway when I was picking up the bike he told me it had a very slight drip and to keep eye on it and on the oil level. After a few days use it stopped and has not been a problem since. Its done lots of miles and motorway runs since. I topped up coolant at end of May and has not needed any since.

When I picked up the bike he had said that if it didn't stop he would do it again as he knew about the risky seal and the ceramic seal. The initial leak was about a teaspoonful. All is good now. I was a bit sceptical at the time but I know him over 40 years and he doesn't drive cars so I don't question his judgement. From experience he is always right and if its not he will fix it.

If all in indeed new as it should be going back in to do the seal is not so difficult. Get them to do it.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:14 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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My experience of Motorworks has been good and never had an unresolved issue with them. Used and reconditioned parts do carry a risk and as far as I see they are good to sort them.

Give them a call first, if ithe part ts the problem they have been good to replace. Or a few photos and they may just send the necessary parts.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

12Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:15 am

92KK 84WW Olaf


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My experience of Motorworks has been good and never had an unresolved issue with them. Used and reconditioned parts do carry a risk and as far as I see they are good to sort them.

Give them a call first, if ithe part ts the problem they have been good to replace. Or a few photos and they may just send the necessary parts.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Baja Red bought 36,000 now 84,100 miles
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:25 am

audibob

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I have no doubt that moterwerks will take it back and give me another pump, I have to decide whether to strip mine myself or order another . If mine is serviceable I would like to rebuild it, the only way to learn is to do it yourself.
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

14Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:10 pm

audibob

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Moterwerks have sent a replacement pump so will fit that.
I tested the one that leaked from them by removing the rad to the pump inlet hose that runs through the head casing. I fitted it to the pump in a vertical position, and then with the pump impeller facing upwards and level in the vice, and with the water exit passage visible, I filled the hose so that the water filled the chamber up to the top of the impeller blades, with the thermostat still fitted . Water dripped from the exit hole immediately.
I then tested my own unit the same way, no leak at all.
I presume the oil seal had failed on mine mixing with the coolant.
I wonder whether the oil seal could be tested in the same way some how.
leave that to the bods.
I will test the second unit from moterwerks the same way before fitting it .
Perhaps moterwerks could test them before sending them out.
I have fotos but not sure how to get them on here. If someone sends me an email address i will send them on.
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:28 pm

Be made

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audibob wrote:I have fotos but not sure how to get them on here.
The easiest way I found to do the photos on here was just go to Google Blogger. Create a simple Blog, upload the photos to that and then, once your blog is updated, click "view blog ". Then just hover over the image, right click, select 'copy image location' then paste that in to the "insert an image" from your tool bar when you make a post on here and the image will appear

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:58 pm

robmack

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I use Google Picasa to host my photos.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:06 pm

audibob

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Here is the water filled up to the Impeller.





This shows the Rad to pump hose being used to fill the chamber.








This shows the Moterwerks unit I fitted leaking..

Fotos taken on my smart fone so not the best quality.



Last edited by audibob on Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : picture size)


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:07 pm

Be made

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audibob wrote:Fotos taken on my smart fone so not the best quality.
Glad you figured out how to get them on to here

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:02 am

audibob

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Thanks for the help with getting pics on here, much appreciated.
I will try the test from the oil seal side on my pump using coolant as it is more viscous.  I do not expect it to drip like the coolant did as the seal was letting go under oil pressure , otherwise the sight glass would have emptied rather rapidly !!
Must invest in a decent camera for better close up fotos, .but you can see what I was doing .
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

20Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:03 am

audibob

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Success...
This replacement pump did not leak so is now fitted the the bike, just have to wait 24 hrs to refill the fluids..
























__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:48 am

RicK G

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If those ceramic seals are put in too tight which is what is often the case then it will only start leaking when it cracks at startup. I don't wish to be a wet blanket but be aware of that. Twice I have had those seals go in too tight but being aware caught them in time and that is using the standard kit from BMW.


__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

22Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:52 am

audibob

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Thanks Rick,
I will remove the fuel pump connector and run the starter for a short while before firing her up.
Or maybe remove the plugs and turn her by the rear wheel, then use the starter.
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

23Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:23 pm

audibob

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YEAAHHHH.
I now have  a leak free pump. Coolant system full, fan cut in and out,  so can now get back to two wheels again.
New front battleaxe too, happy days.
Anyone rebuilding their pump might want to do the test I did, might save some time .
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

24Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:36 pm

Be made

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Awesome news man. Glad you got it sorted.

Now . . . go and ride around like you are drunk for a few hundred K's, weaving and leaning all over the place, and make sure that tyre is well worn in before you get into the wet with it

    

25Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:03 pm

audibob

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Thanks Be made.
Cant wait to ride her again though dry days first for a while to scrub the front in.
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:22 pm

blaKey

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Bob, thanks for passing on the info!

I've fixed my waterpump myself and hopefully it will work ok. I'll try your water torture test before I install it (torture for me until I see that it doesn't leak!).

Charlie had a look at it yesterday as I was a little concerned how much effort is required to spin it. Charlie said it's fine.

Happy days indeed Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!
K100RT 1987 (now nekkid with red bits)

Remember Rule No. 6
    

27Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:28 am

audibob

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Fingers crossed then...
Bob


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:25 am

charlie99

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good result bob

happy riding !

go on post those pics when you can tear yourself away from the thrill  ....grin


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

29Back to top Go down    Re: New oil/water leaks on Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:20 am

audibob

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Here is my leak free pump and "Daphne" tucked up for the night in the garage.








Also due for a good clean at the weekend, happy days.. Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Yamaha 90
Honda CD 175
Honda CB 360 
Triumph T 140V Bonneville
Triumph T150 Trident
Honda CB750 F1
Cz 175
Yamaha XS 750
R 100/7
R 80
K100 LT
K100 LT current bike
    

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