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1Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty K1100 no power at starter on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:33 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
I am in the process of installing a K1100 upgrade.
I have put the 1100 in the 100 frame together with the loom, relay box  and all engine componentry.
I have gone as far as just the engine, gearbox and loom in and thought I would see if I had it all together correctly.
Lights and chassis functions  seem to operate as they should ie idiot lights in cluster, hi/low beam, parking light and flashers
When I press the starter I get nothing. Tried to follow Berts trouble shooting guide but not sure how to test the starter relay.
I have power at the start button when I pull in the clutch.
I have neutral light and 0 on the GPI
I have power at the starter relay on pin30 but none of the other pins have power at any time with or without pressing the start button
I am not sure how to proceed with testing from here, because of this I swapped the relay over for the one which came out of the bike when it was a K100 ( I assume it is still good, it was last week before I stripped the bike) but no change.
I do not have power at the starter when I push the start button.
Please advise on how to test from here, any advice will need to be in real laymans terms as I really struggle with electrics, Berts trouble shooting guide even baffles me.



PS : forget to mention, I have not put on a stand so I joined the wires from the sidestand switch together.



Last edited by Packo on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:44 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

2Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:42 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
When you push the starter button you should get power to the black/yellow
wire (signal) at the relay.
If not check the same wire at RHS switch assy connector under the right side
of the tank.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

3Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:23 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
You were right Inge (of course) had a poor connection on the black & yellow at the connector under the tank.
Havent started it yet as too late but at least it now I has power to the starter motor
Thank you once again


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

4Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:43 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
K1100 no power at starter 112350 .


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

5Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty now fuel relay on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:46 pm

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
I now have starter turning over but no fuel pump.
Checked to fuel pump relay
So far : Pin30 - power with ignition off
            Pin86 - power with ignition on
            Pin85 - No ground when ignition on and starter pressed

To confirm I then tried testing with 12v test light with -ve to Pin85 and probe to battery+ve - Nothing

Also, Jumper from Pin30 to Pin 87 and had power at Green/White wire in fuel tank plug
Connected Pin85 to Batt-ve and Pin86 to Batt+ve and relay clicked.

I suspect that all is well except for the failure at Pin85 - so ground is not being sent from Motronic unit
Does anyone have a Pin layout for the Motronic plug so I can try to workout some test there to see if the problem is in the wiring or the Motronic unit
Any other testing solutions and suggestions would be welcomed as I don't know where to go from here.


LONG SHOT : The engine I have is out of 10/92 K1100LT and the Motronic unit is a rectangular flat smooth surface unit like shown on Ducks Kbike website under part number 13611464717 but he says it is for models 94 onwards. http://www.kbikeparts.com/


My harness plug obviously fits it but would it also fit the other unit for the earlier models prior to 94. part no

13611464649

The motronic unit was not with the engine when I picked it up and was supplied separately but at the same time.
Could it be that it is the wrong Motronic unit ???
Thanks in advance


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

6Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:05 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
On a MA 2.1 unit pin #3 grounds the fuel pump relay.
On a MA 2.2 unit pin #1 grounds the fuel pump relay.

If you hold the connector with the wires pointing down, start counting down left.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

7Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:03 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
sounds like a positive result about to  happen ...great work inge !!!


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OK1100 no power at starter Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

8Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:10 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
Inge where do you get this info?? thanks again
Couldn't work out how to test Pin1 and or Pin 3 with the plug in the motronic unit.
Cheated and went to a friend who also has a K1100 and borrowed his motronic.
It was the other version, I suspect a 2.1, the one with the ribs on it but the plug fitted so nothing to lose I gave it a go.
Had ground at Pin 85 with starter pressed.
Can only assume that I have the wrong Motronic unit, 2.2 version  I suppose, even though the plug fits, obviously BMW have the Pins doing different things as Inge said above
Next task is to source a 2.1 Motronic.
Now have fuel pump that operates.
Still haven't got the engine running as the FPR now seems to be faulty. no fuel in return line to tank and pressure build up in the line to the fuel rail. Job for tomorrow.
The bike was partially wrecked when I purchased the frame with engine a gearbox and a few other random bits and pieces that he threw in, prior to that it had been in for major work and never picked up so effectively layed up for 8 years so I cant expect too much I suppose. I am beginning to think that each time I fix one problem another will immediately surface so it could be some time before it actually runs.


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

9Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:17 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
My idea was that you could use a multimeter and check for continuity from
terminal 85 in the relay socket to contact 1 & 3 in the multiconnector.....
and then you would know if your wiring was for the early or late unit.

But anyway now you know that you have the early version........
beware that it is different units with and w/o a cat,
if you don't have a cat, check that the pot.meter for adjusting co is present
at the front of the relay box.
The MA 2.1 also have a separate unit for the ignition transistors, found at
the front of the battery box.......check that it's present.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

10Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:18 pm

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
"My idea was that you could use a multimeter and check for continuity from
terminal 85 in the relay socket to contact 1 & 3 in the multiconnector.....
and then you would know if your wiring was for the early or late unit"

of course why didn't I think of that - did it just for "practice" anyway and proved Pin3
I have a electrical plug with the wire retaining clip going to a probe like thing which enters the airbox just in front of the relay box, manual calls it a temperature sensor - fairly sure this is the potentiometer you refer to.
Also have an "ignition output stage" mounted on the front of the battery box - this would be the unit you refer to for the ignition transistors I presume.

Now trying to source a MA 2.1


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

11Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
@Packo wrote: I have a electrical plug with the wire retaining clip going to a probe like thing which enters the airbox just in front of the relay box, manual calls it a temperature sensor - fairly sure this is the potentiometer you refer to.
The co pot.meter is found in front of the relay box at the opposite side of the
bike as the air temperature sensor.
But as earlier mentioned, if you have a cat you don't have this co pot.meter.


@Packo wrote:Also have an "ignition output stage" mounted on the front of the battery box - this would be the unit you refer to for the ignition transistors I presume.
Yes it is.


@Packo wrote: Now trying to source a MA 2.1
Note, as earlier mentioned it's a different MA 2.1 unit......with and w/o a cat.

If you have a cat, you would find the O2 sensor behind the left footrest bridge.

K1100 no power at starter Katte10


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

12Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:02 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
I don't have a cat but I do have the co pot.meter mounted on front bottom left corner of relay box (it has a brass slotted head screw inside a protective collar and appears to be for making adjustments)


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

13Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:06 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
Then you should look for a Motronic MA 2.1 unit with a yellow Bosch label
which have # 0 261 200 709.
You would also find a silwer label with the last seven digits of the OEM # on 13 61 1 464 479.
According to a cross reference, OEM # 13 61 1 464 530 is similar.

You can also use one with a yellow Bosch label # 0 261 200 250
and OEM #  13 61 1 464 417.
Or blue Bosch label 0 261 200 250  and OEM # 13 61 1 464 289.
According to a cross Reference, Bosch #  0 986 261 091 and 0 986 261 094
is similar.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

14Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:26 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Inge I will go hunting and let you know


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

15Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:07 am

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
good luck with hunting Mike.


__________________________________________________
1987 K100RT  Ex- police        
1989 K100LT  Ol' Blue and "Kart" the Kamper trailer.  now KAPUT . 
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
K1100 no power at starter 10_x_110
    

16Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:11 pm

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks to the forum I now have a MA 2.1 winging its way to me.  Big thanks also to Inge K for his input and knowledge on the Motronic Nos. that would fit.
Bike is now running (borrowed MA 2.1) and awaiting a test ride. Just tidying up loose ends now.
I am wanting to utilise a "warning light" in the instrument cluster to come on when I activate an aux fuel pump.  I tried it on the Low Fuel light so I joined into the white wire at the plug where it goes into the tank. The red fuel light came on sometimes,  stayed on sometimes and sometimes didn't come on at all  - but I didn't want to play with the wiring too much as everything else seems to function as it should.
Is there any other "unnecessary" Globes that I could utilise in the cluster and if so what colour wire would it be and where is it best to "tap in"
The choke light would be my first choice but doesn't appear on the wiring diagrams so I suspect that the Pin is not in place as it is on the K100 and think this also might be the case for the other low fuel indicator.
If this plan fails I will have to put in a stand alone globe I suppose.


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

17Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
@Packo wrote:Is there any other "unnecessary" Globes that I could utilise in the cluster and if so what colour wire would it be and where is it best to "tap in"
The choke light would be my first choice but doesn't appear on the wiring diagrams so I suspect that the Pin is not in place as it is on the K100 and think this also might be the case for the other low fuel indicator.
If this plan fails I will have to put in a stand alone globe I suppose.

If you don't have ABS, both choke and the furthest left of the low level lamps
is unused.

Low level is 8, choke is 12.....both should be grounded.

K1100 no power at starter Kontak10


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

18Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:39 am

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks again Inge K, info was exactly what I needed as usual.
Used Pin 8 (ABS light) and all works as expected.
Project is now complete and first test ride has been undertaken, no dramas and all appears to be good. very happy with the result.


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

19Back to top Go down   K1100 no power at starter Empty Re: K1100 no power at starter on Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:39 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
good resolution mike

another k bike hits the road again

great support inge ...!!  cheers


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OK1100 no power at starter Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

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