BMW K bikes (Bricks)


You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]


88

88
Life time member
Life time member
I took the sump off the RS due to a seized bolt on the filter cover and was a bit perplexed by what I found.....

Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Sump_n10Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Sump_n10

I picked out a few of the flakes which are quite soft in texture. 
Anybody seen anything like it or got any idea where they might have come off?


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Your cam chain tensioner is failing Will


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
RicK G wrote:Your cam chain tensioner is failing Will

Thanks Rick G. That just earned me a beer....! I saw the photo Sunday and as I was out on the K yesterday was thinking the same thing.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
wow Will

surprising sight for sure


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
1987 k100rs ########   "Red"  - (red sports rs TWB style )
1989 K100rt #009637   "Black Betty"  (naked rt ala Nigel , now sporting an rs main fairing )
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
I found the same in my engine oil just last week..... but nowhere near as much as that tho!! Just a few very small bits. I determined they weren't metal as they would break under my finger nail. I suspected they were from the timing chain tensioning guides/tensioner. Will be doing that as soon as I get parts.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks Rick G - I have an 8 valve kit here but I need the 16v kit for this ...buggah. Looks like I owe Olaf a Bierre Blonde!


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
Why are those metal flakes not in the oil filter?  😕

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
brickrider2 wrote:Why are those metal flakes not in the oil filter?  😕

I could be wrong but I think the oil pump pumps the oil through the filter on its way around the engine. The mesh screen under the pump stops these bits getting into the pump which would explain why the are all in the one place but the oil filter stops the finer bits. I think the oil filter has a by pass if its blocked.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

kennybob

kennybob
Silver member
Silver member
Is that really metal particles of copper or brass--or is it the plastic from the chain slider?  It looks metallic in the photo but needs to be verified.

Heavy metal like brass probably won't get pulled thru the pump, but aluminum or plastic might.

    

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
There is a fine mesh filter at the bottom of the intake for the pump.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
kennybob wrote:Is that really metal particles of copper or brass--or is it the plastic from the chain slider? It looks metallic in the photo but needs to be verified.

Heavy metal like brass probably won't get pulled thru the pump, but aluminum or plastic might.
See my post #5 above.
At first glance, they looked metalic but I determined they weren't as it would break under my fingernail. They certainly looked like bits of bronze but I don't know of any bronze parts. I'm pretty sure they're from the timing chain tensioner guides.

Any particles of a certain mass will settle in the bottom of the sump pan. Also the pre-filter on the oil intake will prevent larger particles from getting sucked up thru the filter.... so they are effectively trapped in the pan.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
just a thought here ...could this be flakes of aluminium off the block sheered off by the timing chain slop ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
1987 k100rs ########   "Red"  - (red sports rs TWB style )
1989 K100rt #009637   "Black Betty"  (naked rt ala Nigel , now sporting an rs main fairing )
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Could be Charlie. They seem fairly soft to me but won'tknow for sure till we have a look. Cheers


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
charlie99 wrote:just a thought here ...could this be flakes of aluminium off the block sheered off by the timing chain slop ?

Either way it points to a possible timing chain and tensioner issue. I would replace the chain and tensioner and guides all the bits.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
I would say definitely not aluminium. I had the same experience as the Captain. They are quite soft and picking them up in your nails is enough to disintegrate the smaller ones. I found it hard to get large enough pieces to pick up for examination.


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

kennybob

kennybob
Silver member
Silver member
Maybe use a spoon to gather some up and spread it on a paper towel--the oil will wick away and your left with the 'gold' on top

    

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
only other thought I had was ...perhaps some paint - stuff off the outside of the oil filter ?

in any case a mystery till you get the rest of it opened up


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
1987 k100rs ########   "Red"  - (red sports rs TWB style )
1989 K100rt #009637   "Black Betty"  (naked rt ala Nigel , now sporting an rs main fairing )
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Not flakes of paint charlie. They're lumps.

Will, strange how this has happened to two MarrakeshrRed K1100RS at the same time. Wonder if there are any others out there that have experienced the same.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Well, I changed the timing chain and guides on the weekend (a little different to the K100). There was very minimal wear on the bottom tensioner guide and the rest was in good condition... even the chain. Nothing to suggest that the guides had been chewed out. Although there was no evidence in the records I got with the bike of the chain being changed, I'm going to assume that that work has been done in the last 20 or 30k or so and that these strange plastic looking lumps are remnants floating around the bottom of the sump from previously chewed out guides. Next oil change I need to remove the sump plate to repair the gasket there so I'll be able to clean it out properly. I'm guessing I'll find more strange lumps.

I'm interested to hear what you find in yours Will.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Well I changed the chain and guides/tensioner arm and could not see any source of wear that could account for what was in the sump. Judging by the condition of the guides I concluded that they were done at some point in the past and that the crud was perhaps there from the previous set. I can see or think of no other explanation.

Here's what I took out...I know the ones on the bullion brick are far more worn and the chain on the RS wasn't that bad either.

Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please 2016-012


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Well I changed the chain and guides/tensioner arm and could not see any source of wear that could account for what was in the sump. Judging by the condition of the guides I concluded that they were done at some point in the past and that the crud was perhaps there from the previous set. I can see or think of no other explanation.

Here's what I took out...I know the ones on the bullion brick are far more worn and the chain on the RS wasn't that bad either.

Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please 2016-012

I also found some damage on the sprocket teeth, like it was dropped. I took this as evidence of work in the past too.
 
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please 2016-014

All has been filed down and looks shiney and new now  Cool


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
pretty deep grooves on those guides Will

I' d be guessing that the guide was using the roller of the chain  rather the edge for tensioning on the arc tensioner guide ? 

how was the roller part of the chain ...any movement - slop in any of them ?

I still cant think of anywhere that has brass in the engine ...maybe except the front output shaft bearing surface ring(6)  or the bush at the end of the output shaft (2) ?   perhaps this is what is called fretting of some metal ....then over time ...well you can guess the rest  ?Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Diag_w5
Sponsored links
 
[th]No.[/th][th]Description[/th][th]Supp.[/th][th]Qty[/th][th] From [/th][th] Up To [/th][th]Part Number[/th][th]Price[/th][th][/th][th]Notes[/th]
01Output shaft111211461785$360.25+core
only in conjunction with
--Idler111211461498$193.14+core
--ABSORBER GEAR WHEEL111211461499$534.86+core
--Absorber511211461541$13.30
--Spring111211464519$22.12
02Bush6X12X12111211461539$14.61
03Absorber111211460883
04Bracket111211460356$7.06
05Cover lidD=12MM107119937220$1.84ENDED
05Cover lidD=12MM107119906393
06INNER BEARING RING22X26X2,0111211460370$40.54
07SNAP RINGD=22MM111211460373$0.81
08Needle bearing26X34X16111211460376$17.48
09SNAP RINGD=34MM111211460379$1.87
10ABSORBER GEAR WHEEL111211461499$534.86+core
only in conjunction with
--Idler111211461498$193.14+core
--Absorber511211461541$13.30
--Spring111211464519$22.12
11Grooved ball bearing83,5X50X16111211465278$103.35+core
11Grooved ball bearing80X50X16112/198511211460472$45.76
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
.
12Lock Ring50X2112/198507119934250$1.80
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
.
12Lock Ring112/198511211461755$2.61
FG* K100 0 008 126/K100RS 0 084
834/K100RT 0 027 983
FG* K100 USA 0 031 377/ K100RS USA 0
042 727
FG* K100RT USA 0 053 355
.
13Absorber511211461541$13.30
13Absorber511211460231$13.30
only applies to
--ABSORBER GEAR WHEELX11211460903$326.60ENDED
14O-ring19X4111211460456$1.67ENDED
15COMPRESSION RING111211460696$6.03
16Hex nutM20X1,5111211460797$12.16ENDED
17Spring108/198911211461532$6.68SI 1103185
18Idler108/198911211461753$355.58+core
19Shim1,60MM108/198911211461742$12.52
19Shim1,75MM108/198911211461743$12.52
19Shim1.90MM108/198911211461744$12.52
19Shim2,05MM108/198911211461745$12.52
Notes

  • +core = plus core charge (possibility of a return of the old part)
  • ENDED = the part has been discontinued (no longer available).
  • SI = Service Information

Sponsored links
 

Copyright © RealOEM.com  

Message not specified.

 


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
1987 k100rs ########   "Red"  - (red sports rs TWB style )
1989 K100rt #009637   "Black Betty"  (naked rt ala Nigel , now sporting an rs main fairing )
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
The tensioner guide wasn't down to the rollers Charlie from what I could see and the chain had very little variance from the new on a sideways bend. Still a bit mystified.


__________________________________________________
Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Copper/bronze flakes in sump - opinions please Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1 - 1989 - AKA Titan (unique K1/K1100RS hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K100RS - 1991 AKA Ronnie. Cafe racer project bike
K75RTP - 1994
K75C - 1991 AKA Jim Beam. In boxes. 
K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red (gone)
K100LT - 1988 - AKA the Bullion brick. Should never have sold it.
    

Sponsored content


    

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum