BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Can I remove the choke? Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:49 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
Hi Everyone,

In looking to change handle bar controls and minimise everything, I'm wondering if I can remove the choke?  I've done a bit of reading and found out the choke is just a throttle advance, so does that mean I can just keep the revs up a bit until she warms up, or am I asking for starting problems with no choke?

Cheers,
Nods


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

2Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:37 am

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
I've never removed the fast idle lever (choke?) so I can't answer definitively.  But, it seems to me that starting wouldn't present a problem if you did removed it.  Question: Why would you want to?  I find it convenient on my 1985 K100RS, maybe it's not so on other models.

    

3Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:14 am

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@brickrider2 wrote:I've never removed the fast idle lever (choke?) so I can't answer definitively.  But, it seems to me that starting wouldn't present a problem if you did removed it.  Question: Why would you want to?  I find it convenient on my 1985 K100RS, maybe it's not so on other models.
Thanks for that mate.  Mine's an '85 K100RT that I got recently in pieces and is not running.  I'm doing a minimalist custom and want to change the controls so it won't have the choke lever mounting point.


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

4Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:36 am

JGT

JGT
Gold member
Gold member
You could fit a friction screw to the twist grip to aid warming up.

    

5Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:50 am

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
k100virgin wrote:You could fit a friction screw to the twist grip to aid warming up.
True that. From what I've read the Bricks and the Jetronic don't like any throttle when pressing the starter. So as soon as she fires I guess I'll just give it a little throttle to prevent stalling.  

If the choke is just a manual throttle control, there shouldn't be any harm in removing it. But I defer to the experts in case there's something more to it.


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

6Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:44 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
It's not a choke - it is, as you say, a fast idle lever. Pushing it 'on' opens the butterflies very slightly and the Jetronic does the rest. If you're not in a cold bit of Kangaland then you might be able to get away with it; otherwise if you want to dump the cable it should be possible to machine up a lever mechanism that mounts on the end of the TB bank. I did a 'feasibility' study once (for a special), came to the conclusion it was possible using a similar mechanism to the old Amal enriching slide but didn't follow through with the detail.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

7Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:05 am

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
Life time member
I've never used the 'choke' for starting in 33 years of riding K's, so I don't see any problem with it being removed. 

Just my opinion.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

8Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:34 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I don't use the choke for starting and generally just fire up and ride off. My first 2 miles or so are downhill.

The only time I would think it would be needed is if you want/need to idle the engine at cold but the general advice for minimising engine wear is to fire up and drive/ride off but don't ride hard until engine is warmed up.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

9Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:41 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@nods wrote:From what I've read the Bricks and the Jetronic don't like any throttle when pressing the starter. 
Where did you read that, Nods? 

It's useful in the cold country where I am. I prefer my bike's engine to snap into action to save wear on the relay so I use the "choke" when I  start the bike up the first ride of the day, ride away immediately and shut it down after the bike is in second gear. There are a couple of months when it might not get used at all. June and July maybe. I seem to recall watermelon involved somehow. Anyway, there seem to have been no harmful side effects. I'll report back in 33 years.

It's definitely not minimalist though. I've often thought how much more attractive my bike and myself would be without that lever sullying the graceful contour of the handlebar. Smile I just have no initiative.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Can I remove the choke? Usa-lo10
    

10Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:21 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
The choke reference is only on the lever because BMW raided their parts bin for the boxers and the lever was printed 'choke' on top.

All it does on a K is apply some throttle but once you are riding and using the throttle it's doing nothing at all. Using the twistgrip to apply some throttle before you start up is exactly the same as using the 'choke' lever. Once you move off you can close it fully because the twistgrip is now doing the job. It is effectively a hand throttle rather than a 'choke'. A FIAT of 1985 vintage that I once drove had a similar feature but they referred to it as a hand throttle.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

11Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:37 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
A throttle lock will let you remove the "choke", but it will not be as convenient to avoid over revving the engine as it warms up.  The "choke" has a fine tuning effect on idle speed that the throttle does not have.  This makes it easier to use for that morning warm up while one dons their helmet and gloves.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

12Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:01 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@Point-Seven-five wrote:A throttle lock will let you remove the "choke", but it will not be as convenient to avoid over revving the engine as it warms up.  The "choke" has a fine tuning effect on idle speed that the throttle does not have.  This makes it easier to use for that morning warm up while one dons their helmet and gloves.

Here we differ.

My bike gear sleeps on the Aga at night so it's nicely warmed up in the morning. I put it all on, including helmet and gloves, step outside, hop on the K, key into ignition then fire up and go. Same routine whether its frosty or warm, except Aga is off in summer.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

13Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm

Motorbike Mike

Motorbike Mike
Life time member
Life time member
My first incarnation of my Flying Brick had a fast idle lever. It's a poor image but you can just see the lever mounted on the coil mounts. It kept it out of my way down there and all I had to do was make a short cable-easy. I have different TB's on now and don't actually have a fast idle option, I just open the throttle a little but as it's a track bike I do have to stand and warm the bike up before revving the nuts off it!

Can I remove the choke? Choke11

    

14Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:52 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@Laitch wrote:
@nods wrote:From what I've read the Bricks and the Jetronic don't like any throttle when pressing the starter. 
Where did you read that, Nods? 

It's useful in the cold country where I am. I prefer my bike's engine to snap into action to save wear on the relay so I use the "choke" when I  start the bike up the first ride of the day, ride away immediately and shut it down after the bike is in second gear. There are a couple of months when it might not get used at all. June and July maybe. I seem to recall watermelon involved somehow. Anyway, there seem to have been no harmful side effects. I'll report back in 33 years.

It's definitely not minimalist though. I've often thought how much more attractive my bike and myself would be without that lever sullying the graceful contour of the handlebar. Smile I just have no initiative.
Rick G's reply, post 5 in this thread https://www.k100-forum.com/t6232-finicky-starting

Thanks for the info on your bike and starting habits.

You would appear more attractive without the choke?  lol!


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

15Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:53 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@sidecar paul wrote:I've never used the 'choke' for starting in 33 years of riding K's, so I don't see any problem with it being removed. 

Just my opinion.

Paul.
Thanks Paul.  Wow, and that's in chilly England!


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

16Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:54 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I don't use the choke for starting and generally just fire up and ride off. My first 2 miles or so are downhill.

The only time I would think it would be needed is if you want/need to idle the engine at cold but the general advice for minimising engine wear is to fire up and drive/ride off but don't ride hard until engine is warmed up.
Sounds good to me Olaf  Smile


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

17Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:56 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:The choke reference is only on the lever because BMW raided their parts bin for the boxers and the lever was printed 'choke' on top.

All it does on a K is apply some throttle but once you are riding and using the throttle it's doing nothing at all. Using the twistgrip to apply some throttle before you start up is exactly the same as using the 'choke' lever. Once you move off you can close it fully because the twistgrip is now doing the job. It is effectively a hand throttle rather than a 'choke'. A FIAT of 1985 vintage that I once drove had a similar feature but they referred to it as a hand throttle.
Perfect, that's the confirmation I was looking for.  Thanks again Olaf.


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

18Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:44 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@nods wrote:Rick G's reply, post 5 in this thread https://www.k100-forum.com/t6232-finicky-starting
You would appear more attractive without the choke? 
The average temp. where Rick lives—although undoubtedly he has worldwide experience—is 29ºC and the average where I live is 6.6ºC so I'll just stick with what works here, which is probably a reasonable strategy regardless of where the bike and its owner reside. As far as "chilly old England goes" wherever they can have 6" of snow on the ground in October that keeps accumulating until finally its gone in mid-April, I might give their method a try.  cheers

I can't risk removing the choke and creating waves of resentment.Laughing


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Can I remove the choke? Usa-lo10
    

19Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:14 pm

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Jan av Max 26.5°  July av Max 14.0°
          Min  15.6°            Min  1.3°
Stanthorpe is in the Southern Highlands of Queensland and that 29° is for Brisbane which is sea level.

My K100 which I no longer own would not fire if you gave it even the slightest throttle and temperature had no bearing.
Some Ks are very finicky about it while others not so much.
Almost all EFI engines the manufacturer will say no throttle at start up, let the electronics do the thinking. Not sure I really trust that it sounds like something a government would say. Very Happy


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

20Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:32 pm

nods

nods
Silver member
Silver member
@RicK G wrote:Jan av Max 26.5°  July av Max 14.0°
          Min  15.6°            Min  1.3°
Stanthorpe is in the Southern Highlands of Queensland and that 29° is for Brisbane which is sea level.

My K100 which I no longer own would not fire if you gave it even the slightest throttle and temperature had no bearing.
Some Ks are very finicky about it while others not so much.
Almost all EFI engines the manufacturer will say no throttle at start up, let the electronics do the thinking. Not sure I really trust that it sounds like something a government would say. Very Happy
True they do say that, although with my 2012 modern EFI Tiger it helps to just have the throttle cracked open a tiny bit for the cold morning starts when it's freezing or just below.  It starts much easier with that little trick, and that's pretty much universal for that bike according the forum.


__________________________________________________
Chassis number0025951
Vehicle code0504
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RT 84 (0504 ( 0505 )
Body typeK 100 RT 84 (0504
Catalog modelECE
Production date1985 / 01
Engine0514)
Transmission
Steering
CatalyzerNONE
    

21Back to top Go down   Can I remove the choke? Empty Re: Can I remove the choke? Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:00 am

Gauntlett

Gauntlett
Silver member
Silver member
not fitted to my trike since 1996, starts no problem, slight throttle listen for the click of the position sensor, then hit starter and away you go.

    

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