BMW K bikes (Bricks)


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1Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:25 am

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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So from my last post I fitted new fuel injector seals and checked that they worked and that injectors fired and no blockages. Fresh petrol and bike started and sounded really surprisingly good. Smoked a bit at the start as expected but soon cleared up .
Helmet on and out for a test run . Going lovely for about a mile the I had to slow down for a turn off. Bike cut out and wouldn't start. hmmmmm.
Two guys stop in car and said hi I'm a mechanic whats up . So he gets out and clutch in barely any throttle and bike starts !!!!!! So he says do you mind if I ride it back up road to my house so I said go ahead, So he takes off and it sounds lovely and the minute he backs off it cuts out again. 
Anyone any idea whats going on before I start stripping it ?( Short history of bike . It lay up for four years , I got it and changes plugs ,oil ,battery ,petrol. Cleaned fuel injectors and it went lovely until this ).

    

2Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:56 am

BobT

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Sadly there are many threads on this subject and many things that can be the cause of the problem. No one can really diagnose your particular problem but many will be along to make suggestions, and there will be loads of them.
Your bike is exactly the same as mine, even the colour. mine has the correct exhaust fitted whereas yours seems to be fitted with the older 8 valve exhaust, I wonder if that makes any difference to the bike with having an 8 valve 90 hp exhaust rather than the 16 valve 100 hp one.
You should never need throttle to start a K, but the lever on the left holds the throttle slightly open for cold weather starts.

    

3Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Possibly fuel starvation Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:10 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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BobT wrote:Sadly there are many threads on this subject and many things that can be the cause of the problem. No one can really diagnose your particular problem but many will be along to make suggestions, and there will be loads of them.
Your bike is exactly the same as mine, even the colour. mine has the correct exhaust fitted whereas yours seems to be fitted with the older 8 valve exhaust, I wonder if that makes any difference to the bike with having an 8 valve 90 hp exhaust rather than the 16 valve 100 hp one.
You should never need throttle to start a K, but the lever on the left holds the throttle slightly open for cold weather starts.
Thanks for that , Yes this is going to be a learning curve for sure and yes the guy that stopped to help me today started it with no throttle. I feel like it runs out of fuel thats the only way I can describe what happened but it has half a tank of fresh fuel. So I'm gonna have to find a faulty part possibly

    

4Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:09 pm

Point-Seven-five

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k100rs cutting out, HELP Mixtur13
Don't blame the exhaust.  I have the same setup on my K100RS 4V and it runs great. 

Do you have a screw adjustment on the front of your relay box just behind the throttle position sensor?

It controls the idle mixture and may be too lean.  You need to take a plug reading at idle and adjust for a slightly black electrode.  Turning anti-clockwise makes the mixture richer.  The screw has 10 turns from end to end.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:47 pm

walfish

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.75 refers to the CO2 potentiometer the setting checks can be found below the sketch with pin numbers, see link .


http://www.k100.biz/pdf/FAQ/NT_consumo_by_Frank_Warner.pdf

Get yourself a digital multi meter to do the testing.
Write down all your settings before you make any, you can always get back to where you were.
Make one change at a time before testing.

Hope this helps.

Cheers


__________________________________________________
k100rs cutting out, HELP Uk-log10
                            88 K75 S 0107569 (she's a keeper)
                            88 K 100  0033026 (gone)
   
                            92 K 1100 LT  6455097 (gone)
    

6Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty soooo something to look at Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:31 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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After getting the bike home I contacted the previous owner. So apparently he had an issue with the side stand cut out which stops the fuel pump ?
So anyone heard of this . Im gonna check it in the morning when I dry out .

    

7Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:41 pm

Ringfad

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Unless modified a K 16V will not start with the side stand down (disables fuel pump)

Here is a picture of the switch.

k100rs cutting out, HELP Side_s10

You can short the wires together, where the switch connector plugs into the loom, for test purposes


__________________________________________________
k100rs cutting out, HELP Ir-log10

   ;BMW; K100RS Style Black 1987 105K Km     ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 60K Km     ;BMW;  K1100RS Black 1996       ;BMW; K1 Blue 1990 25K Miles
    

8Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:44 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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Ringfad wrote:Unless modified a K 16V will not start with the side stand down (disables fuel pump)

Here is a picture of the switch.

k100rs cutting out, HELP Side_s10

You can short the wires together, where the switch connector plugs into the loom, for test purposes
Thanks I think ill do that . Read so much about this issue seems to be multiple  causes .

    

9Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:17 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Hi Peter, good to see you!

A simple check.....had the same on my 8 valve....connector to the petrol tank was dodgy, cutting the power to the fuel pump and then it cut out....and would restart again because some little movement would reconnect it for a moment.

Check back on what you disturbed doing the job, as in what connectors you opened, battery out? Motronic out? tank off? dodgy sidestand switch? disturb the ignition to loom connection under the tank?

But first check the side stand one mentioned above. Sounds a likely one and you need to be enjoying the K. Mine will have done 300 miles this week......glorious winter weather too.


Will we see you at Draperstown ABR weekend of 19 May? Camping weekend for some of us, even bought a new tent today......been 5 years since I bought a tent.!


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

10Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:25 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Hi Peter, good to see you!

A simple check.....had the same on my 8 valve....connector to the petrol tank was dodgy, cutting the power to the fuel pump and then it cut out....and would restart again because some little movement would reconnect it for a moment.

Check back on what you disturbed doing the job, as in what connectors you opened, battery out? Motronic out? tank off? dodgy sidestand switch? disturb the ignition to loom connection under the tank?

But first check the side stand one mentioned above. Sounds a likely one and you need to be enjoying the K. Mine will have done 300 miles this week......glorious winter weather too.


Will we see you at Draperstown ABR weekend of 19 May? Camping weekend for some of us, even bought a new tent today......been 5 years since I bought a tent.!
Cheers and yes your right , could be something I disturbed albeit I bought the bike after it lay up for a few years . But engine sounds fine and tight and rides smooth for a mile. Could be pushing it to Draperstown at this rate . Gonna do a complete check of the wiring over the weekend. Got the feeling theres more to it though .See how it goes.

    

11Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Excellent idea to check the stand first.  With the early model muffler the sidestand does sit just a bit different from how it would with the oem stand.  Could be just enough to cut off the fuel pump.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

12Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:58 pm

Rockman

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The other probability is the Hall Effect sensor. It lives behind the T shaped cover at the front of the motor. When it gets hot it stops working and the bike just cuts out. Leave it for 10 mins to cool down and it'll go again like nothing was wrong. Repeat as often as you like. My RT did this last year. Changed the sensor and its been good ever since.

    

13Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Something else you want to do is check the throttle position sensor.  Unlike the 8V engines, the 16V engines have the mixture determined by this sensor. 

The spec is for .375V at throttle closed.  To make it easy to check there is a test built into the Motronic control. 

To check the setting of the throttle position sensor, lift the seat.  There is a big heavy cable under the seat behind the battery.   About 5 inches from the big connector that is connected to the Motronic unit there will be a black 3 pin connector connected to 4 wires sticking out of the cable. 

The pins on the connector are numbered on the side of the connector.  Take the bare end of a wire and put into pin #3.  Connect the other end of the wire to ground.  Turn on the ignition, but don't start the engine.  The high temperature idiot light should be lit.  Make sure the "choke" is turned off.  Turn the throttle.  If the throttle sensor is adjusted correctly, as soon as the throttle is opened, the light will go out.  Closing the throttle will make the light come back on.

If the light is not showing properly you need to adjust the throttle sensor before you do anything else.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:24 am

BobT

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I told you that there were a million things it could be. 
If you follow all the posts so far and do everything that is mentioned, your bike will be in a thousand bits before you know it!  Crying or Very sad

    

15Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:56 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Did you put a new fuel filter in.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

16Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:04 am

Laitch

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BobT wrote:I told you that there were a million things it could be. 
If you follow all the posts so far and do everything that is mentioned, your bike will be in a thousand bits before you know it!  Crying or Very sad
The upside is with a little cleaning they're ready to take to the powdercoater.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

17Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:47 am

Point-Seven-five

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BobT wrote:I told you that there were a million things it could be. 
If you follow all the posts so far and do everything that is mentioned, your bike will be in a thousand bits before you know it!  Crying or Very sad
Good advice Bob.  I guess he should just scrap the bike.  Being in a thousand bits will just facilitate parting it out.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

18Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty still no joy Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:08 am

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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So I have complexly checked al connections and all seem good . Came out this morning and bike started instantly . 
It won't idle and cuts out after a few minutes. Convinced this is not electrical and that it is something I the fuel supply. Gonna check throttle position sensor and maybe try adjusting idle screw.
Checked petrol tank again today and thought the fuel looked cloudy and not clear ?
Not sure if that means anything.
Ye know if it was a ordinary bike engine I would just clean carbs and adjust idle but this is not funny. Beginning to regret buying it .

Ive ordered a new fuel filter and some hose incase they are contaminated or blocked .Sad

    

19Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:14 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Peterk100rs wrote:Checked petrol tank again today and thought the fuel looked cloudy and not clear ?
As BobT has mentioned, there are many different causes of engine cut-out. An orderly approach is necessary to keep madness at bay.  Smile

The fuel shouldn't look cloudy. You need to get a good look at what's happening in the tank. Ethanol is part of the fuel additive scheme in your neck of the woods. A K-bike idle for years with an ethanol gas mixture in the tank is likely to have its hoses and fuel pump vibration damper start to disintegrate which in turn will block fuel flow in many places. Siphon out the fuel, carefully remove the fuel cap assembly and its gasket, then look for debris. You'll be ready to install the fuel filter and hoses anyway.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

20Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:48 am

Peterk100rs

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Yeah I believe your right . Just spoke to guy who owned the bike and said he drove the bike everyday until it was put away with no issues. 
Im gonna empty out tank and remove it . Gonna take everything out and either replace or clean fuel pump if possible too. Its the only way to take it out of the problem. The petrol was clear when I put it in yesterday and its cloudy today so this has to be effecting the running I would say.

    

21Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Cloudy fuel sounds like water contamination to me.  Ethanol additives attract water that can settle out in the low spots right where the fuel pump pickup is located.  It's a good idea to get that water out since it not only makes the engine run poorly, they can promote corrosion that causes leaks in the tank. 

You could disconnect the supply hose to the injector rail and power up the pump to pump a sample into a bottle.  Let the sample sit for an hour or so and the water will settle out at the bottom. 

Drain the rest of the tank and soak up any remaining fuel before refilling with fresh.  Water can damage the element in the fuel filter so you might want to replace that before the new fuel goes in.  Any steel shell filter will work if it has 8mm connections, no need to give an arm or leg to the BMW dealer to get one. 

It's also possible that there is some dirt that has been loosened and gotten into the injectors.  It is not a bad idea to add some Chevron Techron to the new fuel.  A bike that has sat for several years will have some varnish in the fuel system that takes a while to flush out.  Techron will help speed the flushing process.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

22Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:57 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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Point-Seven-five wrote:Cloudy fuel sounds like water contamination to me.  Ethanol additives attract water that can settle out in the low spots right where the fuel pump pickup is located.  It's a good idea to get that water out since it not only makes the engine run poorly, they can promote corrosion that causes leaks in the tank. 

You could disconnect the supply hose to the injector rail and power up the pump to pump a sample into a bottle.  Let the sample sit for an hour or so and the water will settle out at the bottom. 

Drain the rest of the tank and soak up any remaining fuel before refilling with fresh.  Water can damage the element in the fuel filter so you might want to replace that before the new fuel goes in.  Any steel shell filter will work if it has 8mm connections, no need to give an arm or leg to the BMW dealer to get one. 

It's also possible that there is some dirt that has been loosened and gotten into the injectors.  It is not a bad idea to add some Chevron Techron to the new fuel.  A bike that has sat for several years will have some varnish in the fuel system that takes a while to flush out.  Techron will help speed the flushing process.
Yes I agree. As soon as filter and fuel lines arrive I will strip it all out and clean everything . Was going to use some sort of additive to help clear any other muck that may be in there.

    

23Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:49 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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I have a sister ship that is very similar except for color and having had the ABS removed.  I have about a year of tinkering and restoration invested.k100rs cutting out, HELP Bikes_10

When you get her running right you are going to like her a lot.  As I have said many times before, don't begrudge the TLC you are giving her.  Think of it as foreplay.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

24Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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Point-Seven-five wrote:  As I have said many times before, don't begrudge the TLC you are giving her.  Think of it as foreplay.
And think of yourself as Optimus Prime, if that helps. Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

25Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:11 pm

Holister

Holister
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Peterk100rs wrote:Ya know if it was a ordinary bike engine I would just clean carbs and adjust idle but this is not funny. Beginning to regret buying it .
“...... There will be days when we lose faith.
Optimus Prime
Very Happy

Take a look in the tank with a torch. You should be able to see a bit of the pump and its mounting. It could be looking a bit messy. Typically the vibration damper goes to mush and coats the inside of your tank if its left too long. Order a new vibration damper and pump. EME or Motorworks for the mounting parts. You may also need a new pre-filter.
Other than just running the pump with some fresh fuel and maybe some carby cleaner to flush it out, it's not really serviceable. You can get a Chinese pump off ebay for around $100 if needed.

Hopefully its just the filter. (have you checked it's round the right way?)
Ryco Z200
SupaCheap SCF200
Valvoline VF6
Fram G4777
Its a pretty common filter and used in quite a few different cars including earlier toyotas

When I bought my first K-bike it had around 80ml of water in the tank. That can be due to bad cap gasket and/or blocked drain hole in the cap recess.

One of the first things I do when trouble shooting is to check the spark plugs. That will give you a bit of an idea about what's happening.

Cheers


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 k100rs cutting out, HELP Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

26Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:39 am

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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Thanks for the info. New battery, new plugs , injectors taken out and clean ( and checked that they work )
Stripping tank and fuel lines today . Fitting new lines and filter.
Bike starts and runs but cuts out after a few minute . Doesn't matter if it's stationary or moving same thing happens .

    

27Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:57 am

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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So I come out the morning to strip out petrol tank and to my suprise the petrol is completely clear not cloudy . Really not understanding this .
So yesterday I started the bike and then looked in rank and fuel was cloudy , today I didn't start bike and fuel us clear ?

    

28Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:12 am

Dai

Dai
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The water has probably settled out overnight. Give it a good stir with a clean stick and it will most likely change colour again.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

29Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:20 am

BobT

BobT
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You are making the mistake of looking into the tank when the engine is running, the bike was designed so that when the key is in the ignition and the engine is running you cannot open the tank. 
When the engine is running the FPR will dump fuel back into the tank and cause bubbles, small ones look like cloudy fuel. Shut the tank and run the engine as there is no need to have the tank open with the engine running.
You are causing yourself more grief by looking at things that do not need looking at.

    

30Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:37 am

Peterk100rs

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No the engine wasn't running this morning. I just looked in the tank first thing as I was going yo strip it .

    

31Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:41 am

Peterk100rs

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So I guess the fuel is going through filter and pump and some gets sent back to the tank . So possibly that hose is fractured or sucking in air , causing the cloudy petrol?

    

32Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:43 am

BobT

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Peterk100rs wrote:So I guess the fuel is going through filter and pump and some gets sent back to the tank . So possibly that hose is fractured or sucking in air , causing the cloudy petrol?
No, I doubt it, again you are looking for things that aren't there. Why should anything be fractured?
If the engine is running then fuel does get pumped back to the tank and makes the fuel turbulent and swirling, it could look cloudy because that fuel going back into the tank may contain air bubbles and that would probably be completely normal. If the fuel looks fine before you start it and you can't see ant debris/water in there then shut the fuel tank and forget it.
What will happen now is everybody will open their tank and start their bike, something which is never normally done in the whole life of a bike, but everyone will now be trying to fix a problem that does not exist!

    

33Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:44 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Peterk100rs wrote:So I guess the fuel is going through filter and pump and some gets sent back to the tank . So possibly that hose is fractured or sucking in air , causing the cloudy petrol?

Hi Peter,

What happens is that the fuel pump pumps the fuel from the tank at about 60 psi. This is reduced by the FPR fuel pressure regulator [buried behind the air box but accessible by removing the bottom half of the air box] to about 36psi and the balance goes back into the tank. You will always have fuel bubbling back into the tank. 

BUT occasionally if the fuel line inside that tank that's under pressure is damaged or loose you will get bubbling but no go because the fuel system is not getting pressure to operate and all the fuel is being madly pumped around inside the tank. There is a small length of flexible fuel hose inside the tank and if that's in trouble you will get everything working but no firing of the engine due to lack of fuel pressure.

Its not a complex system but its a good thing to get a good understanding of it, make troubleshooting easier.

Don't be tempted to throw money and new parts at it, can become frustrating and that's why we get so many Ks that have been off the road for years.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

34Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:49 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Running perfectly to cut out is more likely to be something electrical. Hall sensor mentioned, is worth running the test on that. I had to replace mine. But I also had an issue with the plug on the FICU under the seat causing an intermittent cut out on uneven surfaces. I also another time had an issue with the electrical plug that plugs into the fuel tank [front left on my 84K]. On the LT I had an issue with the unit up under the headstock.

That sounds nightmarish but being a regular on the forum they all sorted very easily and for very little money with he help from the guys here.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

35Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:56 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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My money is on water in the fuel.

As Dai mentioned, the water in the tank settles out overnight.  When you start the engine the fuel coming back from the regulator stirs up the water to make the fuel in the tank look cloudy. 

As soon as enough water is stirred up it gets in the injectors and kills the engine.  Let the engine sit for a couple minutes and the water settles out so with a little cranking the injectors clear and the engine starts and the cycle begins again.

I have read that part of the problem with rubber parts in the fuel system is related to this water.  There is a bacteria that lives in a water/ethanol/gasoline mix that feeds on the plasticisers in the rubber, breaking it down.  If the water has been in there a while, there is a chance the vibration damper for the pump may be bad and need replacement.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

36Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 am

BobT

BobT
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If there is water in there and it gets to the injectors then it will go through them, the water will soon be gone unless someone is adding water to keep some in the tank.
The bacteria that you speak of grows in the layer between the water and fuel and is quite visible, I know this as in my past I have spent many a night shift cleaning it out of aircraft fuel tanks.

    

37Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Water in fuel Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:00 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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k100rs cutting out, HELP Img_1711
So I drained the new petrol out of the tank into a container , replaced fuel filter and hoses . Wiped the inside of the tank clean and sprayed some injector cleaner in them .
Came back after to lunch and this is what the fuel looks like. I would say thats water and contamination at the bottom. By the way the container is full. The rest is petrol on top . Hopefully this is my problem sorted. Tomorrow il get it back together and test it . Oh and its getting in through a damaged tank cap gasket.
Thanks to everyone who gave advice and help . Very much appreciated.
ek100rs cutting out, HELP Imagecheersk100rs cutting out, HELP Image



Last edited by Peterk100rs on Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

    

38Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:14 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Funny one that.....when I got the parts for the rear main seal and clutch etc I ordered a new tank gasket.......

Make sure the hole is on the left side as you sit on the bike and run a check to make sure the pipe from that hole...it goes through the tank and comes out underneath....make sure it is draining water away.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

39Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:29 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Peter, when you put it back together, make sure the hinge on the tank lid is positioned facing the rear toward the seat.  Otherwise it will block the drain hole for the lid recess. 

BTW, I can't see the photo of your bottle.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

40Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:03 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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Point-Seven-five wrote:Peter, when you put it back together, make sure the hinge on the tank lid is positioned facing the rear toward the seat.  Otherwise it will block the drain hole for the lid recess. 

BTW, I can't see the photo of your bottle.
Photo uploaded this time to last post

    

41Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Peterk100rs

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k100rs cutting out, HELP Img_1712
Water in fuel. Bottom is water and crap from the tank. Top is full of new petrol. I guess this is it !!!!!

    

42Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:51 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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That looks like a beer with a good head on it. says a lot for the K that it went at all.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

43Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:41 pm

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
active member
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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:That looks like a beer with a good head on it. says a lot for the K that it went at all.
Well I'm not out of the woods yet . We will see how it goes after putting it all back together and some fresh fuel (again). Hopefully a good run will clear it out . Fingers crossed.

    

44Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:01 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Yeah, that is more than enough water to ruin your day. 

Have you wiped down the inside of the tank?   How does it look in there?  Is the pump rubber in good shape?


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

45Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:42 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
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Keeping the inside of a K tank water free can be difficult. I usually put about 100ml of mentholated spirit in the tank after I have been riding in the rain for any extended time. 100ml will absorb 150ml of water and let it pass through the system without any harm at all. Any more than 100ml will not be easily absorbed into a full tank of fuel.
It will pay to do that as there will be some droplets of water that were not got and they will settle right under the pump and the electrolysis will start to eat the alloy and eventually cause the dreaded fuel leak.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

46Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:53 pm

Holister

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Also check the rubber vibration damper around the pump by running your finger on it. If you get any black bits rubbing off on your finger, then it needs replacing.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 k100rs cutting out, HELP Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

47Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:35 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
RicK G wrote:Keeping the inside of a K tank water free can be difficult. I usually put about 100ml of mentholated spirit in the tank after I have been riding in the rain for any extended time.
Is that the purple stuff that smells of mint?  k100rs cutting out, HELP 652573


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

48Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:14 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Dai wrote:
RicK G wrote:Keeping the inside of a K tank water free can be difficult. I usually put about 100ml of mentholated spirit in the tank after I have been riding in the rain for any extended time.
Is that the purple stuff that smells of mint?  k100rs cutting out, HELP 652573
MINT Yuk mine tastes of Burbon k100rs cutting out, HELP 8157


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

49Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:15 pm

Stan

Stan
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Life time member
You blokes are sick puppies!


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 basic vin 0003960 colour red  GONE
1987 K100RT vin 0094685 colour, orange peel, sorry, pearl..GONE
F800R black
    

50Back to top Go down   k100rs cutting out, HELP Empty Re: k100rs cutting out, HELP Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:14 am

Peterk100rs

Peterk100rs
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Yes I have wiped the inside of the tank checked the rubber and replaced the hoses . The only contamination I found was bits of hardened gasket , which I think fell in when I removed petrol cap . Tank looks in good nick with no rust . Rubber is fine and not coming apart .
Will find out later today How it goes .

    

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