BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Head Scratching Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:49 am

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Life time member
Life time member
Bike gave me the bird this arvo

Was not used for some time.
Battery kaput and replaced. Last week when jump started with this (now replaced) battery in the bike, it ran fine for a while and revved out and then cut out. Am imagining that I heard a click or a pop....

This arvo...

New battery (Yuasa)... 12.48V when off, 11.38V whilst cranking
Fuel good (98 Octane and new)
Fuel pump could be heard when starter briefly pressed twice to pressurise fuel lines.
ECU believed to be good (though clip would release if pulled). Replaced with known working unit 
Starter cranks ... occasionally will disengage and spin. At other times cranks continuously
Spark (blue) visible at #1 plug when grounded on engine.
Fed some fuel into cylinder and then cranked. No ignition.

Walked away...beer on offer.

Will check fuel pump again tomorrow.
Battery is large and comes very close the to bottom of ECU housing. Any chance of shorting here?
Given previous battery issues, I connected a spare (battery to earth - new improved thicker gauge) wire to the positive terminal and this comes out of the LHS of the bike to facilitate jump starting. It does not contact the frame and the end is covered by a rubber cap.


Q: Any suggestions short of me going systematically through Bert's checklist (once I find it...)?

Regards

Guy

    

2Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:08 am

MartinW

MartinW
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First thing to do is check all the spark plugs, are they wet or dry??

Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

3Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:51 am

duck

duck
Life time member
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Fed some fuel into cylinder

What does this mean?

Have you checked the fuel filter?  You can take it out and try to blow through it to check its condition.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

4Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:05 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Life time member
Which year and model of bike is this? Have you unplugged and cleaned both the fuel injection control and ignition control units, cleaned their plugs, then reconnected them and established that their connections are tight?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Head Scratching Usa-lo10
    

5Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Got a result Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:57 pm

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Life time member
Life time member
1983 K100 RS No Start

In my earlier post I listed some of my efforts and mentioned that I wasn't sure if I had heard a pop or click....

New battery (Yuasa N60-24L??)... 12.48V when off, 11.38V whilst cranking. Recharged this overnight after repeated failed attempts to start
 
Fuel good (98 Octane and new)
  
Fuel pump could be heard when starter briefly pressed twice to pressurise fuel lines.
 
ECU believed to be good (though clip would release if pulled). Replaced with known working unit 

Starter cranks ... occasionally will disengage and spin. At other times cranks continuously
 
Spark (blue) visible at #1 plug when grounded on engine.

Fed some fuel (about a tablespoon via some hose) into cylinder and then cranked. No ignition. (thanks Duck)


Further reading and research... suspects included FI clip under RHS of tank undone (I had been deoxiting these connections recently.


FI relay removed and cleaned (wet and dry paper and deoxit. ICU and other relays deoxited (Thanks Laitch)


Fuses checked twice and deoxited


Pulled FI rail and laid cardboard behind it... almost no fuel coming out...

Duck mentioned blocked fuel filter...unlikely since I thought I remembered replacing this within previous 12mths. Still, wouldn't hurt to look. 



Tank was full of fuel. Drained about 5litres and treated my car to some 98 octane (usually makes do with E10). Fuel cap off, unscrewed fuel filter clip, in with the hand and pulled the fuel filter up to back spray it into the tank when I cranked it. 


And Lo! While the filter was pretty new it came away too easily. 


And with cap in hand, I admit that the fuel line had come off the outlet from the fuel pump.
 
Clearly not done up tight enough from some previous "servicing".
So add this to the list of potential no start reasons. What a dunce.


Questions:
Invariably, phaffing around on the bike leaves a few...
Fuel lines: how tight should the clips be? It would seem that the line has softened (yes this is 250psi rated submersible fuel hose). 


Starter motor engages but occasionally spins. Should this be coming out and replaced or serviced? 


Bert's excellent no start guide. A number of links to it are failing on my laptop. Are others getting this problem?


Thanks again for all suggestions. Unfortunately, it is grey and rainy here at the moment to ride. Got hold of a mid-60s YG Yamaha (100cc) for my son to work on and hopefully get a taste for mechanics and bikes. It is pretty past it but hopefully a good starting point for the basics. Once that is going, his grandfather has a 1972-ish Honda CB250...and an LE Velocette... and a few others


Happy christmas everyone
Happy riding


Regards


Guy

    

6Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:28 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I have a PDF of Bert's troubleshooting write-up. I just uploaded it to this link:

http://dws.x10host.com/K100.Tshoot.Start.pdf


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

7Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:26 am

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
Life time member
Life time member
Great result - echoes the advice on this forum and my own regular experience too -

The most likely culprit is often your own handiwork. We all have to learn. And, you're not a dunce - you're now fully trained up in hose clips. I'm not kidding either.


__________________________________________________
Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

8Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:54 am

Stan

Stan
Life time member
Life time member
That looks like a similar issue I had with my 83 basic on a recent Northern Tablelands ride. The fuel line got soft and the original clamp will only go so far. I tried a new line and a clamp that will go down to 14 mm, rather than 15. My problem was the fuel hose kept slipping off the line, even though it looked and felt tight...but it obviously wasn't because it did it 3 times.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 basic vin 0003960 colour red  GONE
1987 K100RT vin 0094685 colour, orange peel, sorry, pearl..GONE
F800R black
    

9Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:22 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I had the same thing with my own hose clamp handiwork.  Running to work on the local interstate I get the pungent aroma of raw gasoline followed almost immediately by engine shutdown.  Freshly installed fuel line slipped off the front end of the fuel rail.

That I didn't go up in flames was a miracle judging from the fuel everywhere inside the fairing.  Wish there was some sort of spec for tightening those clamps.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

10Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:54 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
My 86 was originally a slightly rashed on the right side RS that I got a good deal on because the PO could only get to run for a few seconds after spraying some starter fluid into the air box. When he was helping me push it up onto my trailer he mentioned hearing a clanging noise in the tank as we loaded it up.  When I got home I took the gas cap off and sure enough it was missing a hose clamp on the line into the fuel filter and that hose had popped off of the fitting. One hose clamp later and it started right up and ran like a champ. cheers


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

11Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
@duck wrote:I have a PDF of Bert's troubleshooting write-up. I just uploaded it to this link:

http://dws.x10host.com/K100.Tshoot.Start.pdf
This PDF is outdated.
You can find my latest version of the troubleshooting page HERE

Maybe one day I will reformat it in PDF format. Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Head Scratching Frog15Head Scratching Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

12Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:49 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
@duck wrote:My 86 was originally a slightly rashed on the right side RS that I got a good deal on because the PO could only get to run for a few seconds after spraying some starter fluid into the air box. When he was helping me push it up onto my trailer he mentioned hearing a clanging noise in the tank as we loaded it up.  When I got home I took the gas cap off and sure enough it was missing a hose clamp on the line into the fuel filter and that hose had popped off of the fitting. One hose clamp later and it started right up and ran like a champ. cheers
So thankful for the mechanically disabled.  I just wish there were more of them near to me.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

13Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:42 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I didn't do anything reformatting but here's your newer web page printed to a PDF file:

http://dws.x10host.com/K100.Tshoot.Start.2018.pdf


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

14Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:30 pm

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
@duck wrote:I didn't do anything reformatting but here's your newer web page printed to a PDF file:

http://dws.x10host.com/K100.Tshoot.Start.2018.pdf
Thanks Duck.


__________________________________________________
Head Scratching Frog15Head Scratching Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

15Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:48 pm

GF Wollongong

GF Wollongong
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks for replies and confessions... seems I'm not alone.

And given the abundance of hose clamp issues, surely there is a pressing need for an editing of Bert's trusty flow chart!

Above "Plugged fuel filter" might go another text box... "Fuel hoses in tank secure"

Then again, couldn't possibly be that!

Noticed Duck has changed his pic...that moving "psycho duck" was always distracting. Q: But which way did the blood flow down the plug hole?

Regards
Guy

    

16Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:33 am

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
Guy the first thing to do when encountering a non start problem is to determine whether it is an electrical problem or a fuel problem, hence my first question. Answering that question cuts down the possible faults by half.

Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

17Back to top Go down   Head Scratching Empty Re: Head Scratching Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:07 am

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
@MartinW wrote:Guy the first thing to do when encountering a non start problem is to determine whether it is an electrical problem or a fuel problem, hence my first question. Answering that question cuts down the possible faults by half.

Regards Martin.
I totally agree with you Martin.
The first to do is to determine if you have ignition because the ignition computer tells the FI computer that the engine is turning:
Ignition module pin # 8 send engine RPM to pin #1 of the FI module
A bad ignition computer will prevent the fuel injection computer to work, but a bad fuel injection computer will not affect the ignition.


__________________________________________________
Head Scratching Frog15Head Scratching Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

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