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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Frame, fairing and wheels » frame/model interchange

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1Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:23 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Hi all,

My 1985 8 valve 100 RT based outfit may have to go to the workbench in the sky.
The outfit components are all Hedingham and top notch engineering all recently reburbished by me.

I have had what may turn out to be a significant mechanical event and I can’t be without the ride for the duration. While I’m working thru the issues I will keep my eye out for a replacement tug.

My question is: what other models / years will accept my Leading links and Hed subframe as a straight(ish) substitution?
(same headstock and bearing config and same chassis architecture (the sub frame hi jacks the engine stressed member mounting points)).

Cheers for all guidance, either direct or pointing to a resource. Stu.

    

2Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:45 am

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
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Only got shallow knowledge of this topic, but my rough understanding is that (leaving models aside) you can have the '8v' frame, or the '1100 frame'.

The big difference is that the 1100 frame has two bracing tube 'spines' to the steering head, rather than the 8v's single one. It needs a petrol tank with more clearance on the underside as a result.

Although the method of front engine mounting changed over time (isolation mounts) this was accomplished by small alterations to the frame lugs - the engine blocks didn't alter. All they did was offset to frame lugs to the right, as you sit on the bike. If your rig is on the left then this won't matter. (edit: the lugs were offset for the isolation mounts in 1986)

Where/what are your other mount points?

The headstocks don't alter, including the 4-bolt frame mounting.

There's other, minor alterations over time, which would screw up a simple swapover of parts from one frame to another. These vary in difficulty to overcome.

I hope this thread gets furnished with the ample knowledge on this forum - this is very useful to me too.



Last edited by chris846 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

3Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:47 am

Laitch

Laitch
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tinyspuds wrote:I have had what may turn out to be a significant mechanical event and I can’t be without the ride for the duration.
Do you know what the mechanical event was?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

4Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:53 am

AL-58

AL-58
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Any 8 valve it should all bolt right up.

K75: the leading link will fit, the subframe wont.

K1100; the link will fit but 2 pot calipers will mean some faffing about with hydraulics. The subframe might fit depending on what it mounts to around the rear (different footpeg mounting system.

I have an EML type 8 valve subframe on an 8 valve frame with a 16v 1100 engine/8v exhaust. I have exhaust clearance problems for this reason; the 16v ports are in a different location.

Al


__________________________________________________
'08 F650GS (798cc)
'19 R1250RS
+ another boxer engined motorcycle and sidecar

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

frame/model interchange K-dogs10
    

5Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:01 am

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
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Laitch wrote:
tinyspuds wrote:I have had what may turn out to be a significant mechanical event and I can’t be without the ride for the duration.
Do you know what the mechanical event was?

Yes, very enigmatic, that one.


__________________________________________________
Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

6Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:58 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Thanks all for the input.
Post may be enigmatic but thats because I have no idea.
Engine died at 60mph after a 100 mile run and after re starting temp increased until fan cut in. So I assumed overheating of some kind. Bike had stood for 10 years with an occasional start. I’ve done close to 1k miles since doing all the normal resurrection stuff and it has been faultless.
I have started and run it 3 times since the ‘event’, this morning for 25 mins at tickover: water is circulating, thermostat is working, fan is working, oil splashing around happily at the crankshaft end, no foam no burning. Need to get the chair off so I can lift valve cover to see whats happening at top end.
Then I’m going to be back here asking what next? frame/model interchange 212902

    

7Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:20 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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If the event has no mechanical noise of any kind and no loss of power I wonder if the event is a water pump failure or buggered up thermostat issue?

Water pump impeller? Checked plugs? Sudden issue with fuel injection/pressure/lack of fuel pressure?

2v engine doesn't have electronic cut out on overheating, it will stay running.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

8Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:37 am

Laitch

Laitch
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tinyspuds wrote:Thanks all for the input.
 
Is the unusual rattle you mentioned previously still happening at idle?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

9Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:39 am

duck

duck
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If a K is overheating the radiator cap will blow before the engine is damaged. Just like a car.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

10Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:46 am

Laitch

Laitch
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duck wrote:If a K is overheating the radiator cap will blow before the engine is damaged. Just like a car.
First though—unlike a car—a scalding geyser of coolant from the reservoir tank will saturate your right leg, thereby producing a scream that serves as an overheating warning.  cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

11Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:52 am

duck

duck
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No, it will not burn your leg. But it does make a nice mess.

When I bought my 86 turbo K75 the radiator cap was going bad and the bike puked on me several times before I replaced the radiator cap with a new one which solved the problem.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

12Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:15 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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duck wrote:it will not burn your leg.
You're right about that. frame/model interchange 112350


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

13Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:09 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Thanks Laitch and Duck. Sort of reassuring as I care more about my engine than my leg atm. Laitch, yes I do still have the top end rattle and will know more tomorrow when I get to the valves.
Olaf, can’t really be sure about power as the circumstances since haven’t really been normal riding conditions. Interesting that you mention the fuel injection as when I re started the motor after the event  it made that very particular sound they do when the FI module isnt properly seated with its connector block or when its out of fuel. I’ve done both these things once, and since then I have bound the connector to the module with a cable tie.
All stuff to look at after I’ve reviewed the top end.
Cheers, Stu

    

14Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:11 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Top end rattle is not a good sign......compression test?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

15Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:12 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Hmmm. Compression test shows 100 psi on back 3 and 99 on number 1 (I’ll put that down to varying degrees of finger tightness).
I’ve seen that 140 s/b about right but its a new untested gauge. It stepped up thru each compression stroke to reach its final. Obviously got to take the valve cover off now but at least no longer expecting to find a single scary event.
Thanks for all the help. Stu

    

16Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:55 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I would run a check on how you did the test. The consistency is possibly a good sign but I would have expected a little more deviation between readings. I would do a retest to be fully sure. Not necessarily sure you have enough reason to pull the head off yet as a loss of compression on all four at the one time at same rate would be unusual for gasket/valve issues.

What is in my mind is a broken as in buggered up or disintegrating injector and bits going somewhere? The result would be weird fuelling and possibly a diesel knock sound from the engine. It won't show up on a compression test but would surely cause an over heating issue. Easy fix too.

Other possibility but I think unlikely as neither should really cause overheating: Could the noise be coming from the timing chain tensioner? Or a shim that has split but not yet popped out of the bucket? Or a timing chain jumping a tooth and putting valve timing out? One tooth may not be enough to cause impact but enough to bugger compression.



Last edited by 92KK 84WW Olaf on Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 48,061 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 61,190 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

17Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:58 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
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Just curious, was the throttle wide open for the compression test?  You will never get a proper reading at less than full throttle.  Is the air filter clean?


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

18Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:20 pm

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
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Point-Seven-five wrote:Just curious, was the throttle wide open for the compression test?  You will never get a proper reading at less than full throttle.  Is the air filter clean?
I know somebody who stripped an engine (okay it was only a boxer) because of 'low' compression. It wasn't as if that person didn't know about holding the throttle open when doing a compression test, it was because that person knew very well to open the throttle, but forgot.
Hmmm, I sometimes get very cross with that person when they do stuff like that.


__________________________________________________
Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

19Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:22 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Chris, I think I know that person.  He works on my bikes.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

20Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:05 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Life time member
Good morning,
Getting way off piste here for this forum, but I have no idea how to move it without losing all the valuable history you guys are creating.

Valve cover off and no obvious physical damage. I've measured valve clearances - a real fault is obviously better than an intermittent one, but:

Bike 57k miles

Cam temp 7c

All exhaust are .25 - .30 tick v.g.

Inlets:

.15 .10+ .10+ .10+

(my gauges only have .05 increment so 2 thru 4 are an easy .10 but won't take .15).

Does this make any sense at all? My reading says tightening exhaust pretty common, inlet: pretty rare.

I have contemplated trying a little heat and re measuring, as 7c is probably below 'stone cold' in most peoples minds?

I have a 700 mile run coming up and am now completely out my comfort zone. Happy to learn to do this properly when I get back but won't risk the motor if this horrifies you all.

Have ordered a used HES from motorworks as this does look like a possible culprit for my sudden failure. 48 quid, so worth the punt and I'll get the original tested/repaired professionally for a spare.

Can't thank you enough for your time.

Cheers Stu







    

21Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:59 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
The information will get lost if you continue to add it to an existing unrelated thread heading. Create a new thread with an appropriate title as below.

Forum main page, scroll down, choose your appropriate topic, create new topic. Make your heading easy to understand. Easy as cake. Piece of pie.


__________________________________________________
Patience is something you admire in the driver behind you and scorn in the one ahead.
~Mac McCleary
1977 R75/7-100, '93 K11/K12 Big Block, '95 R100 Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '06 K1200R & '09 K1300GT. Projects: 1993 & '96 K1100RS, & 1st '98 K1200RS.
The Mystic, Big Block, 2nd K1200RS, K12R & K13 are running & ridable.
    

22Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:06 am

Dai

Dai
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tinyspuds wrote:Have ordered a used HES from motorworks as this does look like a possible culprit for my sudden failure. 48 quid, so worth the punt and I'll get the original tested/repaired professionally for a spare.
Do it yourself, seriously.

http://www.hallsensors.de/Hall-Vane.htm

CYHME56 or CYHME56C. You'll need to drill the rivets out and replace them with small bolts; make sure you glue the nuts on with threadlock of some description.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

23Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:54 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Life time member
tinyspuds wrote:I have contemplated trying a little heat and re measuring, as 7c is probably below 'stone cold' in most peoples minds?
A cold engine is a cold engine and that's when the valve clearances are measured. Don't bother heating it. Adjust your tight intake valves.

But first, remove the timing chain cover and see if the inside of it has been gouged by a loose timing chain.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

24Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:09 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Two Wheels Better wrote:The information will get lost if you continue to add it to an existing unrelated thread heading. Create a new thread with an appropriate title as below.

Forum main page, scroll down, choose your appropriate topic, create new topic. Make your heading easy to understand. Easy as cake. Piece of pie.
frame/model interchange Cats-l10


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

25Back to top Go down   frame/model interchange Empty Re: frame/model interchange Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:04 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks everyone for your help. 
As this topic has developed into the resolution of the specific issues I am experiencing, I have started a new thread in the Engine forum entitled ‘valve clearances’.
Sorry to leave you all, but hope to see you again soon at my new place frame/model interchange 177381 . 
Thanks again for your time, experience and commitment to keeping my old girl on the road. 
frame/model interchange 314114 But never say ‘never’...

    

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