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1Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Clutch splines on Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm

Davep

Davep
Silver member
Silver member
Hello, me again.

OK, I am in need of a very clear, idiots guide to doing the clutch splines. Every time I think I've found something there seems to be big gaps in the process, whether it's a written bit or a video on YouTube. I am probably just scarring myself but this job seems to go a bit further into the devils work than I'm use to, but, finances and a desire to do more myself has pushed me in to it.

I have the Haynes manual and happy to buy others if recommended.

Thanks in advance.

Dave


__________________________________________________
Clutch splines Eu-log10 BMW K100RS 1983 (Main ride)
                      Suzuki GSX 750 ET 1979 (Needs work)
                      Kawasaki Zephyr 750 1992 (Needs hiding)
    

2Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:47 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I think we all understand your trepidation as the first spline lube seems like a daunting task. However, it's really just a matter of taking things apart and putting them back together with no special skills or tools required.  Once you've done it you'll be more familiar with your bike and, aside from the time it takes, will realize it's not that big of a deal.

Here's my page on spline lubes. You really don't even need a shop manual:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/splinelube/splinelube.htm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:50 pm

Davep

Davep
Silver member
Silver member
That's great, thank you for that, although on opening your page that picture scared the hell out of me! LOL

David


__________________________________________________
Clutch splines Eu-log10 BMW K100RS 1983 (Main ride)
                      Suzuki GSX 750 ET 1979 (Needs work)
                      Kawasaki Zephyr 750 1992 (Needs hiding)
    

4Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:55 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
One major trick is to get two 8mm bolts at least 4" long and cut the heads off.  They go in the transmission mounting holes on either side of the transmission.  They make it easy to slide the transmission back into position on the rear of the engine when you're putting things back together.

My not-so-secret trick is to slide the transmission back about an inch on the 8mm bolts.  That gives you enough space to see the splines and carefully put the lube on them with a metal handle parts brush that has a couple inches of a small wood dowel stuck in the end to make it a bit longer.  It saves pulling the transmission completely off and having to wrestle it back onto the bike.

The good news is that for most riders you only need to do this job every 4 years or so.  It takes an afternoon and gives you a chance to put anti-seize on all the fasteners and check their torque.  It's also an excellent time to check the integrity of the gear position indicator switch and maybe clean it and make it waterproof.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:34 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I've found it's easier not to cut the heads off of the guide bolts.  I get the tranny close and then use a couple of long hex head M8s to do the final alignment.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

6Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:31 pm

yamaguzzi

yamaguzzi
Platinum member
Platinum member
Thanks for posting this. You reminded me I have to do this job on my K .It has 19900 miles on it now so I guess it's time.I like the long brush method.I did my friends R80 that way and it made it much easier.


__________________________________________________
1988 K 100RS ,1975 Moto Guzzi 850-T , 1971 BMW R60/5 , 1971 Yamaha R5B,1969 Yamaha DS6C ,1966 Yamaha YM1 , 1965 Yamaha YDS3
https://motoguzzi850t.blogspot.com/
    

7Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:07 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Same here.  Ilsa, my RT, now has about 20,000 miles on the clutch spline lube, the monkey knutz have 40,000 miles and the gear position switch is now permanently stuck on 4th gear.  I guess it's a good time to go back in there.

I know she loves it when I fuss over her.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

8Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:20 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
I have a complete set of longer, job-specific 8mm threaded rod for this if anyone in North America needs them posted to do this job.
Clutch splines 20190328
Three smooth studs to allow the gearbox to more easily slide to and fro, and one Allen head to tighten it home. Tape measure shown so's you can make yer own set.



Last edited by Two Wheels Better on Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "What can I do to keep my life from going by so fast?" Then a voice comes to me that says, "Try slowing down at the corners." 

~Charlie Brown

1970 R60/5, '77 R75/7-R100, '85 K100'87 K75C, '87 K100RS, '93 K11-K12 Big Block, '93 K1100RS, '95 R100-Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '00 K1200RS, '02 K1200RS, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150R'04 R1150RT, '05 K1200S, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R, '09 K1300GT & 2013 R1200RT-Polizei  - Beemers owned still or sold.

    

9Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:03 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@Point-Seven-five wrote:The good news is that for most riders you only need to do this job every 4 years or so.

FYI: Prior to 1990 the BMW recommended maintenance interval for clutch spline lubes was annual. (Which is rather silly if you don't ride very much.) But for vehicles produced from 1990 onward (when BMW allegedly hardened the input shaft splines) every 40,000 miles.

Shown here in the BMW K Bike Maintenance Schedule:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/maintsched/BMW.K.Bike.Maint.Sched.All.K.Bikes.pdf


The typical symptom of clutch splines getting "dry" is getting "false neutrals" when downshifting, most noticeably from 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 in my experience.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

10Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:50 pm

mike d

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
The typical symptom of clutch splines getting "dry" is getting "false neutrals" when downshifting, most noticeably from 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 in my experience.

Is this symptom noticeable when the engine is cold, hot, or across the range?

Mike

    

11Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:01 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@mike d wrote:The typical symptom of clutch splines getting "dry" is getting "false neutrals" when downshifting, most noticeably from 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 in my experience.

Is this symptom noticeable when the engine is cold, hot, or across the range?

Mike
I don't think it's engine heat related.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

12Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:46 am

mike d

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
o.k. thanks

Mike

    

13Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:55 am

yamaguzzi

yamaguzzi
Platinum member
Platinum member
@Two Wheels Better wrote:I have a complete set of longer, job-specific 8mm threaded rod for this if anyone in North America needs them posted to do this job.
Clutch splines 20190328
Three smooth studs to allow the gearbox to more easily slide to and fro, and one Allen head to tighten it home. Tape measure shown so's you can make yer own set.
What is the pitch on that 8mm thread ?


__________________________________________________
1988 K 100RS ,1975 Moto Guzzi 850-T , 1971 BMW R60/5 , 1971 Yamaha R5B,1969 Yamaha DS6C ,1966 Yamaha YM1 , 1965 Yamaha YDS3
https://motoguzzi850t.blogspot.com/
    

14Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 am

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
It's typical 8mm standard, which is 1.25 tpi. There would likely be no reason for fine or coarse thread in a gearbox to bell housing mounting point given the torque specs. They're basically four M8x90x1.25 with three of their heads guillotined. Viva la K!


__________________________________________________

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "What can I do to keep my life from going by so fast?" Then a voice comes to me that says, "Try slowing down at the corners." 

~Charlie Brown

1970 R60/5, '77 R75/7-R100, '85 K100'87 K75C, '87 K100RS, '93 K11-K12 Big Block, '93 K1100RS, '95 R100-Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '00 K1200RS, '02 K1200RS, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150R'04 R1150RT, '05 K1200S, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R, '09 K1300GT & 2013 R1200RT-Polizei  - Beemers owned still or sold.

    

15Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:11 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
I've got two like that as well, but mine are bright shiny silver. Gotta be shiny because then they can't hide in dark corners Razz


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, '87 K100RT
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
    

16Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:56 am

yamaguzzi

yamaguzzi
Platinum member
Platinum member
@Two Wheels Better wrote:It's typical 8mm standard, which is 1.25 tpi. There would likely be no reason for fine or coarse thread in a gearbox to bell housing mounting point given the torque specs. They're basically four M8x90x1.25 with three of their heads guillotined. Viva la K!
Thank you , Just wanted to know so I can get them before I start ripping apart my bike to do this job.


__________________________________________________
1988 K 100RS ,1975 Moto Guzzi 850-T , 1971 BMW R60/5 , 1971 Yamaha R5B,1969 Yamaha DS6C ,1966 Yamaha YM1 , 1965 Yamaha YDS3
https://motoguzzi850t.blogspot.com/
    

17Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:56 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Here's mine.  I found that having long ones without heads sticking out got in the way when putting the transmission back on so I just get the transmission close and then put two of these in the bottom holes.  They're also much easier to turn with hex heads and a socket.

Clutch splines QIYTcwT


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

18Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:03 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
That works too. I find a long handled ball socket Allen lets me get to the one I use to tighten it down with pretty easy. The others, of course, are just finger loose as guides.


__________________________________________________

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "What can I do to keep my life from going by so fast?" Then a voice comes to me that says, "Try slowing down at the corners." 

~Charlie Brown

1970 R60/5, '77 R75/7-R100, '85 K100'87 K75C, '87 K100RS, '93 K11-K12 Big Block, '93 K1100RS, '95 R100-Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '00 K1200RS, '02 K1200RS, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150R'04 R1150RT, '05 K1200S, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R, '09 K1300GT & 2013 R1200RT-Polizei  - Beemers owned still or sold.

    

19Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:35 pm

yamaguzzi

yamaguzzi
Platinum member
Platinum member
I guess that would be better if you are actually removing the transmission to do this job but I'm going to try to do it by just getting the transmission far enough back to sneak in there with a long brush and grease those mothers like I did on an R80 a while back.


__________________________________________________
1988 K 100RS ,1975 Moto Guzzi 850-T , 1971 BMW R60/5 , 1971 Yamaha R5B,1969 Yamaha DS6C ,1966 Yamaha YM1 , 1965 Yamaha YDS3
https://motoguzzi850t.blogspot.com/
    

20Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:06 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
The 8mm bolts even make sliding the transmission back to sneak in on the splines easier.  They help support the weight of the transmission so you don't bend the clutch shaft.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

21Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:23 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
@Point-Seven-five wrote:The 8mm bolts even make sliding the transmission back to sneak in on the splines easier.  They help support the weight of the transmission so you don't bend the clutch shaft.
Bingo! That is the point. Well worth knocking a few 8mm threaded studs into shape for both servicing and removing/installing.


__________________________________________________

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "What can I do to keep my life from going by so fast?" Then a voice comes to me that says, "Try slowing down at the corners." 

~Charlie Brown

1970 R60/5, '77 R75/7-R100, '85 K100'87 K75C, '87 K100RS, '93 K11-K12 Big Block, '93 K1100RS, '95 R100-Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '00 K1200RS, '02 K1200RS, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150R'04 R1150RT, '05 K1200S, '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R, '09 K1300GT & 2013 R1200RT-Polizei  - Beemers owned still or sold.

    

22Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:46 am

mike d

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Even BMW themselves recognised the benefit of those pins, as they are listed in their special tools list BMW # 83 30 0 401 812 (Cartool number 23 1 820). In 2007 a pair was £22 (UK). 

Mike

    

23Back to top Go down   Clutch splines Empty Re: Clutch splines on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:49 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Today they are just shy of $53.  I paid about 5 bucks for three 8mm x 100mm bolts.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

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