BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Djsfh

Djsfh
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Hi!

I know, I know. One more topic with same problem. I have seen them all, but haven't had luck fixing the problem in the last month. Problem might lie there, as I am not competent with electronics, but trying my best.

One morning bike stalled after few minutes of riding when I was stopped, no problem, started back right away. At the afternoon I was riding 80km/h when bike suddenly stopped. Started to fire her up and worked ok for a short while and stalled again. Situation is the same now, works ok for 5-10min (even thought little rich I think) to a point that it stalls right away, no hiccups, just stalls. After stalling need to cool down and then starts ok again. I was very sure it was HALL-sensor and changed it, but no luck. 

Here is a link to video with stalling:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V4ERUBVMhtCjWiclf4ll9fxi_Nk3jwI4/view?usp=sharing  

I have used Bert's troubleshooting guide and values there.

Things I have done now: 


  • Fuel pressure from before injectors and after them: Ok, ~35psi.
  • Fresh fuel changed.
  • New fuel filter.
  • New crank breather z-tube.
  • All grounds checked & cleaned.
  • Voltage regulator changed to new one.
  • HALL -sensor : Chanced to new Q-tech sensor.
  • EFI computer tested with another one, no effect.
  • Plugs: Changed to new ones.
  • Injectors : Changed seals. Right voltage to injestors.
  • Coolant thermal plug: Metered from it's plug, giving right values.
  • Rough engine when throttle position sensor off.
  • Not able to find any leaks.
  • Not able to found any broken wires.
  • 5&6 fuses changed.
  • Vacuum switch disconnected, no effect.
  • Air flow meter readings:
    PIN 7-5: 93,3
    PIN 7-8: 350,7
    PIN 8-5: 361,1
    PIN 8-9: 191,5


I rode bike around 200km after keeping her in warehouse for winter, worked fine before all this.

What am I missing?

Thanks on advance  Cool



Last edited by Djsfh on Sun May 30, 2021 2:40 am; edited 2 times in total

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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You don't mention ICU and early ones do occasionally go faulty and cause that.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Coils were a problem on the early models as well.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Like Point-Seven-five has indicated, checking coil resistance according to the troubleshooting guide would be in order. Also,  consider inspecting the fuel filter screen or sock for clogging, replacing the fuel filter if you don't know its age, inspecting the four-pin plug located under the fuel tank that supplies current to the pump via the fuel level sender, and checking continuity through the plug to the pump.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Usa-lo10
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I have 2 early Ks and that tank plug [front left] has been an issue on both. I have resolved it but it did kick in at random. 

I mentioned the ICU unit and early ones have a moisture ingress/condensation issue, some changed out on warranty. 

I have had coil fails too.

One thing that nearly drove a friend mad turned out to be the plug into the FICU unit under the seat. An intermittent cut out exactly like you describe. I have had that one too, incorrect seating of the plug. Unit itself can be perfect but the connection faulty.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Img_4110
Thank you gentlemen of your replies.

I measured coils today, both were as they should. Anyway I ordered used ones with orange towers to keep K on the road. 

Also checked FICU box connector on bike side and cleaned it. Opened also ICU to see if there is something wrong. 



Cannot tear it apart so don't know if those were problem. Re-soldered them anyway. Also ordered spare one. 

Still same problem Sad

EDIT: Checked coils after problem occurred. 10,5kohm / 3.0ohm, 11,5kohm / 3.1ohm. Is it ok when hot?

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@Djsfh wrote:I rode bike around 200km after keeping her in warehouse for winter, worked fine before all this.
What am I missing?
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.  Smile

If you haven't already, you might consider disassembling the ignition switch to check the condition of its contacts and mechanism. The condition of its plug connection to the wire harness beneath the tank can also be a source of intermittent problems


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Usa-lo10
    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
@Laitch wrote:
@Djsfh wrote:I rode bike around 200km after keeping her in warehouse for winter, worked fine before all this.
What am I missing?
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.  Smile

If you haven't already, you might consider disassembling the ignition switch to check the condition of its contacts and mechanism. The condition of its plug connection to the wire harness beneath the tank can also be a source of intermittent problems
Thanks, will check this too. I changed fork springs during the winter so it is always possible that it had come loose.

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@Djsfh wrote:
@Laitch wrote:
@Djsfh wrote:I rode bike around 200km after keeping her in warehouse for winter, worked fine before all this.
What am I missing?
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.  Smile

If you haven't already, you might consider disassembling the ignition switch to check the condition of its contacts and mechanism. The condition of its plug connection to the wire harness beneath the tank can also be a source of intermittent problems
Thanks, will check this too. I changed fork springs during the winter so it is always possible that it had come loose.
That's a possible cause......


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I agree that the ignition switch could be at fault here. It's 37 years old and probably has never been cleaned.

Now that I think about it, your symptoms are very similar to what mine are when the ignition switch on my '92 K75RT acts up and needs to be cleaned.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

long way from home

long way from home
New member
New member
I had a similar situation, while waiting for tow truck...I lifted the rear of the tank, and pulled out the fuel relay, it was warm to the touch. I popped the cover off, all looked ok, gave it a tap on the ground, put the cover back on, popped the relay back in, pressed the starter, success... cancelled the tow truck. Rode home, bike is now behaving. New relay ordered so I'll carry a spare.

    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
On todays schedule was ignition switch maintenance and testing replacement ecu. Same symptoms continues.

Realized, that I didn’t tell here, that after it stalls it still cranks, but it won’t fire up

Also pulled fuel pump off, the screen wasn’t very clogged. There were some rubber pieces and some dirt on the tank. Waiting for replacement pump.

    

13Back to top Go down   K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Empty Stalls Sat May 15, 2021 7:13 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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Maybe leave the fuel pressure gauge on, see if the pressure drops causing the stall. 

Check that the instrument cluster lights are working as they should. 

Maybe the coils were good when testing but not good under load.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Missing 2 things, not electrical related.

Is the retour valve in the tank still working as should be?
Should be not too much pressure blowing through.
Number 19 in the drawing;
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/en/showparts?id=0501-EUR-06-1983-K589-BMW-K_100_83_0501,0511_&diagId=16_0815

And is the tank cap taking vacuum?
When the bike stalls, open the cap, should start right away.
If not, it's not the cap.

Also, that is electrical, possible, te solderings on the printboard of 1 of the computers are gone bad.
That goes for the ICU under the tank, and ECU under the seat.


__________________________________________________
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Check your exhaust valve clearances. You could find they're tight. Valve clearances tighten as the engine warms up to operating temp. If they're on the limit, a little heat and they start not closing and the engine stalls. Had this happen to me twice. Once a few years ago with my K100RT and also back in 1975 when I was driving across Australia in a bomb car. Crazy thing to do I know, but I was only 19. Luckily I had the presence of mind to work it out and to also have a set of feeler gauges in my kit.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Shep

Shep
Silver member
Silver member
Please enlighten some of us as to what is a "bomb car".
Thanks
Shep


__________________________________________________
Model        Production Date/Serial Number
K100RS      1984 July/ (F0040448)
K100RS      1986 Dec/ (H0142581)
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
@Shep wrote:Please enlighten some of us as to what is a "bomb car".
Thanks
Shep
LOL... A 'bomb' is an old car in need of repair. Must be an Aussie term. She was an old '61 Wolsley I bought for 50 bucks to make the 4,000km trip back home.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@Holister wrote:LOL... A 'bomb' is an old car in need of repair. Must be an Aussie term. 
Where I live, they're known as beaters. Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Usa-lo10
    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
Thanks guys! Will check those things also.

Had to take back a bit yesterday. After ignition switch cleaning on thursday it worked like a charm. Yesterday, nothing. Don't know if it is due that or did I do something else, since I also give fuel pump little time out of the tank. Let's see.

    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
Must admit that I felt stupid yesterday checking what is wrong with ignition lock. Soldered it off....Before noticing that I had disconnected it under tank when adding bar pad. Well you always learn.

Checked valves, one exhaust was little bit off being 0,20-0,25. Two inlets 0,10-0,15 and 0,05 - 0,10. Will change shimms to correct that tomorrow.

    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
@daveyson wrote:Maybe leave the fuel pressure gauge on, see if the pressure drops causing the stall. 

Check that the instrument cluster lights are working as they should. 

Maybe the coils were good when testing but not good under load.

Left, not dropping when it stalls. I think cluster lights is working as they should.

    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
Sooo.....

Didn’t adjust the valves, because it wasn’t so easy to found 29mm shims. Ordered them but I bet the problem is not that, two valves were 0,05 and 0,10 off.

More things checked&done:

-Immediatly after it stalls, there is spark on every plug. 
-Coils changed to orange headed ones.
-fuel pump changed to new one.
-all ext, fuel lines replaced.
-flushed coolant.
-after stalling, plugs are dry.

I can’t find any bad wires, but wiring has been fixes earlier I think. Some of the wiring has been replaced earlier and there has been used quite much hockey tape or something like that.

There is quite much of noise from the tank, I guess it is from return fuel line valve. Have to get rid of that.

So, could it he that injectors stops at the same time for X reason? There should be spark, air and fuel.

    

JiiPee63

JiiPee63
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@Djsfh wrote:So, could it he that injectors stops at the same time for X reason? There should be spark, air and fuel.

Clymer manual (Chapter 7, page 226 in second edition) contain a drawing and description of fuel injection system. If you have spark, the Ignition control unit (ICU) should be ok, but there could be something wrong in connection to fuel injection control unit (FICU). According to description there is one direct line between units and other connection passing through the injection relay to the gas pump and the FICU. Note, there are wiring diagrams at the end of the book. They can useful in hunting a fault.

If you need that manual, just send me a pm.


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RS 0089906 (Black 608)
Ex - 1984 K100RS (white), 1986 Suzuki GR650
    

24Back to top Go down   K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Empty Stalling Sat May 22, 2021 6:08 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
If it stalls when wiggling the wiring, especially where the alterations were made, that would be worth a closer look.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
It’s working!

Don’t know if I feel bit dull, angry or pissed off Twisted Evil

I changed Hall as a first thing to new, high quality one since symptons was just like it being bad. Well, decided yesterday to test that sensorwith hairdryer method. Not working! Seems that the part I bought was DOA. Luckily I found one sensor from old owner leftovers and it was working cheers

It was quite much money and time spend, but after all that she runs much better than before.

Thanks for everyone participating And giving help K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* 212902

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@Djsfh wrote:It’s working!

Don’t know if I feel bit dull, angry or pissed off Twisted Evil

I changed Hall as a first thing to new, high quality one . . .  Not working! Seems that the part I bought was DOA. 
Will you be trying for a full refund under Q-Tech's three-year warranty, or did you already receive one?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100RS '84 Stalling when hot *resolved* Usa-lo10
    

Djsfh

Djsfh
active member
active member
@Laitch wrote:
@Djsfh wrote:It’s working!

Don’t know if I feel bit dull, angry or pissed off Twisted Evil

I changed Hall as a first thing to new, high quality one . . .  Not working! Seems that the part I bought was DOA. 
Will you be trying for a full refund under Q-Tech's three-year warranty, or did you already receive one?
Yeah, I think that would be fair, let’s see what Rudolf will say about this . It is quite expensive part to just keep in stock if I would be refunded with new one.

    

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