Hi there I’m currently having some issues I hope I can get some help with my ignition coil doesn’t seem to be getting the power it needs coil 1 has spark to plugs 1 and 3 but coil 2 will not produce spark with the current red and black wire However I have rules out a bad coil because I swapped the two coils wiring around and it then swapped so that coil 2 was the only 1 giving spark to plugs 2 and 4, does anyone know what this may be and how I can fix it looking online the wiring diagrams seem to point to this red and black problem wire going to the ignition control module or am I just being a bit thick and it’s likely just a wire rubber through somewhere?

Coil 1 goes to cylinder 1 and 4, coil 2 goes to cylinders 2 and 3.

Hi  Haza you don't say if all was running ok then this problem appeared. You need to clarify which plugs are sparking to which coil. If you are right then, MY first thought is the HALL SENSOR.

It was yes it did run but this issue has now appeared although it had been sitting for some time would this be a hall sensor gone bad then?

Possibly, the HS is  known to fail without warning so a good  place to start testing from,

Is there any easy way to test a hall sensor then and if so hi would I do it?

Scroll down till the Hall sensors come up

https://www.kforum-tech.com/electrical/EFI/bike-wont-start-EN.htm

I'm with Rick on reading this. It sounds like you have the number three spark plug lead on spark plug four, and lead flour on plug three. It's an easy mistake to make cause lead four normally wraps around plug three. I think this should be fixed first. I'd give the primary wires a good look and clean.

I might have just misremembered how I have the plugs arranged at the moment but I’ll have a check anyway, but I’m not sure that’s the culprit because I can get both coils to spark but it just takes swapping the blue wire on the bottom of the coil to whichever I want to spark and that obviously means it is only trying to run on 2 cylinders I’ll have a look at the hall sensor too and see if I see any possible faults after trying the test from the earlier link But just got to figure out why my coil doesn’t seem to get power at the moment from the red wire

Are the cylinders getting fuel?

Yep take the plugs out cleaned them off completely and then put back in and turned over again took them out again and you could smell the fuel on them

When you write Red and Blue for wire colours, I assume you actually mean Black/Red and Black/Blue. If you're getting excitation only on the Black/Blue and never on the Black/Red, then it could also be a defective Ignition Control Unit. Swap that part with a known good one to see if the problem moves with the ICU.

Deleted, wrong answer.

Yeah sorry if that caused any confusion that’s what I meant with the wires red and black and blue and black I thought it could be the ignition control as some of the wiring diagrams seem to point to it

Right so a bit of an update which should hopefully give a bit more insight, I've taken the ignition control unit out and it seemed very badly corroded, so that will be replaced but for good measure I also had a look at the hall sensor and found that to be just as if not worse than the module, so will be replacing these parts and will update here again with progress or lack of it depending which is first

If the plate looks like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353789146031?hash=item525f79f3af:g:C5EAAOSwEp1hpNjm

- don't worry about it and just put it back. If the metal on the actual sensors is rusty, that's a different bucket of coal. Put up a picture for the edification of the masses.

It seems a fair worse than that to be honest but I'm not certain how best to remove one of its bolts too as its just stripping itself so ill have to work something out for that too

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/tQiQQjW91HxP

Yup, it doesn't look good!

fubar. Utterly. I'll bet January's pay packet that the cork gasket was missing/broken and allowed water to run in. Scrape the remains off and then make a new one from 2mm thick rubber sheet.

If the bolt is just rotating in the casing, attack it with a pair of good molegrips and some penetrating oil (not WD40 or GT85). Chinese molegrips won't cut it because the tolerances will be wide enough to allow the jaws to slip off. Then helicoil it - it's not a difficult job. Just be bloody careful with the drill.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264779701907?hash=item3da6199e93:g:7HwAAOSwaK5hnMbg

Secondly, if the interrupter rotor (behind the plate) is fubar too, PM me because I have one here which I'll swap for the remains of your HES plate. I can use the lead off it to repair another HES plate.

wtf , never seen one that bad 

i would suggest taking the timing cover completely off , to inspect what else could be bad under 

i would be guessing the chain tensioner will be fubar as well 
and the front running face of the crank, timing gear  will need lynishing , as well as the seal replacing 

just wonder if the chain will show much corrosion as well 

a very definite good luck

I’ve got a new hall sensor on the way now and have replaced the ignition control module. However I have a new issue I’m afraid I haven’t touched the bike in a bit and something has now changed the starter motor is engaging but only for a second or so before it then turns off again.

Now I know it’s a good battery with charge and have taken the starter relay wires and bridged the gap manually and the starter turns as normal so do you think I could have a bad starter relay aswell now? Or how would I be able to go about testing it?

I had one last question too about the hall sensor,
Could the rust on it be effecting it’s function since as I said before I had one of the coils sparking fine but the other acting dead so could the hall sensor be to blame for this as I thought it would be more all or nothing with those things.

For the record too the hall sensor will be replaced no matter what now I’ve seen the state the poor thing is in

Haza wrote:I had one last question too about the hall sensor,
Could the rust on it be effecting it’s function since as I said before I had one of the coils sparking fine but the other acting dead so could the hall sensor be to blame for this as I thought it would be more all or nothing with those things.

There are two Hall effect sensors attached to the sensor plate (view attached diagram); that is why partial performance is sometimes possible. Oxidation certainly can adversely effect all electrical components, including Hall effect sensors. To learn more about your moto, click on the link Arlina provided in Reply #7.

No, I don't think the starter relay is your problem, I'll also bet Dai's January pay packet on it.

It will stop after a second if it's not getting a signal from at least one hall sensor. If the current problem goes away with the original ICU, that would be telling.

Since it ran for longer than a second with the original ICU, I'd run a jumper wire with the brown/red wire, and the original ICU, in the hope that it then starts.

Id like to thank everyone on here for the massive help sussing out the issue on my bike as I am now happy to say she is indeed a runner and I must say I've watched quite a few videos of these machines online but they haven't done them justice like being in person they sound so brilliant! 


I had one other question too and it was about its frame it isnt in the best way but I can see only surface rust therefore I'm thinking the best course is having it blasted and then powdercoated (correct me if im wrong) and then it should be protected once again and rot shouldn't be an issue right? But I know aswell the engine and gearbox will need a coat of powder too ideally but vapour blasting will be the only option for aluminium right?

Few photos of the frame below too 

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/uCRliWSpzW5V

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/sW0lI07zz6Rk

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/oG8YgMcdog1d

That frame probably has been repaired at some time, look at where the arrows point and if you are uncertain get an expert to check it out. To me it looks like a very poor weld that has been ground back to cover up the repair.
Also the rust in some places is deep and with sand blasting would be significantly weaker look along the inside of the rail where the red line is drawn. Quite possible that the damage is initially from battery fumes then the rust has set in
To be quite honest I would not use it. It would pay to get a good frame as there are plenty around. No point in doing a good restoration on a bad frame.

I doubt anyone, especially you want to hear this, but this bike doesn't warrant spending the money to powder coat the frame.  It's a lot of money, and there are only the two frame tubes below the seat that anyone can see with the Tupperware in place.  Better to save the money and put it into finishing the brightwork.

I have had really good luck stripping the bike down to a bare frame, spending an evening or two with a wire wheel and sanding discs. There is no need to get to bare metal, just get the worst of it.  Follow that with a thorough coat of rust converter followed by POR-15 carefully put on with a brush to make sure you don't miss anything.  Final finish with POR-15 Chassis Black to protect it from UV. 

If the pitting on the tubes that show really bothers you, put a little glazing putty on them, and do a second coat of the chassis black. 

POR is a heavy duty industrial coating that is tougher than almost any paint and will last for many years.  Fifteen years ago I painted the cast iron keel of a sailboat with it, and so far the rust has not returned.  Lots of car restorers have been using it on frames and running gear for many years and it has a good reputation.  It's not cheap, but is a lot less than powder coating.

https://por15.com/

I agree with Rick. It looks suspiciously like someone started a cafe racer and then changed their minds. You cannot trust that frame. If that's a butt weld then it's incredibly weak. The only way to find out if it's been properly plugged and welded is to cut it open again, so you're stuffed either way. Forget ebay - go here:

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=40&Ct=OA&SbCt=BA_10_40_OA_10

First item. If you can get an '83 frame you won't be paying VED from next year

The frame tubes under the seat will go rusty with a monotonous regularity because they are right in the way of the regular shitshower coming off the roads over here. How often you need to resort to .75's solution depends on your mileage; three years was about the best I got before having to redo it again, but I was clocking 14K a year in Irish weather.

The back row can keep quiet about how often I tend to actually wash my bikes

Sounds like that might be a better way forward then too but what sort of stuff will I have to deal with in terms of paperwork, I'd love to just transfer everything to a new frame and that be it but I imagine its more complicated?

Thanks for the link too dai way way way cheaper than ebay and probably better condition too

Unfortunately I've just asked them and motoworks haven't currently got any frames in

Dai wrote:The back row can keep quiet about how often I tend to actually wash my bikes

I ever only wash bikes or cars when the water tanks overflow and that happened for the first time in four years a couple of months ago so I say n o t h i n g i n g.

That's a bugger. All the frames on ebay (including James Sherlock) are taking the piss. When you do get a frame (keep a watch on ebay - I've seen them down at £100) then yes, it's a simple matter of transferring everything across. If you really want to play by the absolute letter of the law, when the V5 is in your name, send it back to Swansea to get the engine number changed. I've never really bothered in the past with any bikes because you'll only really run foul of the law if you did something stupid like fitting something much bigger and not telling them.

It gives you the opportunity to really clean up the rest of the bike?  

I'd also tag the rear shock as probably needing replacing. It's coming up on 40 years old and I doubt the seals have survived. Opinion on here is divided (as usual!  ) , but the replacements from YSS, Hagon or RamShock (Realm Engineering) are all pretty much in the same price range.

On the upside, unless your driving licence has words on it that you would rather not have on it, fully comp insurance is going to come in at somewhere between £100-£150 pa. Add a second K and it will cost you not a penny more.

I think it just the angle of that photo though to be honest its possible I just missed some bodge job from a previous owner but I would have thought I'd catch it, anyhow ill look over it tomorrow and then decide if the frame would warrant saving