BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:25 am

Gary11

Gary11
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Hi all had the dreaded continuously spinning over motor , changed starter relay same issue, new battery another new relay all switches tested NEW starter fitted, still does it ,question is whether to change relay again (after being stuck I guess they are toast?) change earth cable as it has been hot and looks quite thin, what would be the recommended fix  are there any solid state relay options?
Many Thanks

    

2Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:02 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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The starter button swtich can stick and sounds like yours is doing that or has a short in that wiring.

Be sure you have the correct relay.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

3Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:42 am

Gary11

Gary11
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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:The starter button swtich can stick and sounds like yours is doing that or has a short in that wiring.

Be sure you have the correct relay.
Hi its genuine Bosch one new x 2, switch is fine tested many times its the relay sticking because if you tap it the engine stops cranking ,I've run a power pack direct to positive and earthed on frame (so taken off original thin earth cable) have fitted new SM too bit lost really, am looking for a better relay if anyone has any options for a heavy duty one? Seems once relay stuck its junk ....again

    

4Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter relay Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:57 am

daveyson

daveyson
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Sometimes a new battery is not much good. It's a Bosch relay but is the part number for a k100?

How many km on the bike? 

What's the Voltage reading across the battery terminals, and what's the reading while cranking?

Did the relay just make one click and then stuck, or was it a rapid series of clicks before it stuck?


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

5Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:06 am

Gary11

Gary11
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daveyson wrote:Sometimes a new battery is not much good. It's a Bosch relay but is the part number for a k100?

How many km on the bike? 

What's the Voltage reading across the battery terminals, and what's the reading while cranking?

Did the relay just make one click and then stuck, or was it a rapid series of clucks before it stuck?
Hi relay was 0332002160
Bike has 20k (miles)
new gel battery will advise cranking voltage as I need another relay they seem unreliable once stuck? it  made a couple of clicks then stuck, when engine is cranking on its own a tap on relay stops it I've even removed frame earth and used sealey battery pack instead of bike battery exactly the same stuck solenoid, thanks for reply.

    

6Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter relay Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:33 am

daveyson

daveyson
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You can do the battery tests with the relay you have, but maybe unplug the tank connector so that it only cranks but doesn't start. 

You might not need another relay. I had a relay that stuck a number of times before I got it and was stuck in the on position for years before I got it. When I got it, as soon as I connected the battery, it started cranking. I accidentally dropped the relay,  which fixed it. I put a new battery in and never had the problem since.  But your case sounds a bit different.

This sort of reminds me of that old chestnut with cars starters where there's enough power to pull in but not enough to hold in, so a on off, on off situation. Too many sparks close together making the contact hot and then it sticks.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

7Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:50 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Some questions that come into my mind:

Does the starter start turning when you turn on the key, or after you push the start button? 

You turn the key off and the starter keeps running until you tap the start relay, is that correct?

The bike has not been modified, is that correct?

Does the headlight go out when the start relay is stuck and the starter is running?

With the bike on the center stand and the rear wheel off the ground does the starter run on with the transmission in gear?

Answers to these questions might help isolate the cause of your problem.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

8Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:37 pm

MartinW

MartinW
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Stuck relays can be repaired by popping off the cover and gently prying the points apart. It normally doesn't require much to get them to separate sometimes a tap on the bench will suffice. Once apart the points can be filed flat using a points file. Removing the arced peaks can get the points working again. Fitting a battery isolation switch helps when the relay sticks. The sticking normally occurs when the battery has low voltage. Just after I got my Brick my relay stuck I tried turning off the ignition and hitting the kill switch, it didn't work. As the bike slowly cranked over the battery overheated and the side of the battery blew out sending acid everywhere. I had to dowse the battery and myself with water and get a push start to get home. From then on I carried an Allen key so i could quickly remove the earth lead to the gearbox. After the relay stuck again i fitted the kill switch.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

9Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:21 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Fit one of these. https://www.tills.de/motorcycle-battery-disconnect-adaptor.html

starter issue K100 9310


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

10Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:54 pm

MartinW

MartinW
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A few of the Kronies have fitted these. Easy to isolate when doing electrical work and also works as a security device if you remove the key. Mine resides under the lefthand side cover.
starter issue K100 Narva_12
starter issue K100 Narva_13


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

11Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:37 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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It is the nature of relays that the pull in current is higher than the current required to hold them.  I am suspecting that your problem is related to a wiring fault that is allowing a reduced amount of current to flow after the start button is released. This current isn't enough to make the contacts close unless the start button is pushed, but is enough to hold the contacts closed after the button is released.  Because the magnetic force from the leakage current is is weak, tapping the relay will make them open up.

Another test besides answering my questions above would be to press and release the start button and while the starter is running disconnect the start relay's coil connection.  If the relay drops out, that would indicate an electrical issue causing the starter to run vs. a mechanical problem with the spring that pulls the contacts apart. 

If the relay contacts remain closed after you pull the coil connector off, the problem is mechanical.

I suspect that the problem is current leakage because you say changing the relay doesn't fix the problem.  Answering my questions above would help identify where to look for the electrical issue.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

12Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issues Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:05 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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I know this is wishful thinking, but here I go again. 

Hopefully it's simply a loose or dirty connection. Or just a bad battery. I know you've tried three batteries, but I'm guessing two of them are old and the new one might not be good, especially if it came from a shop with a low turn over, then that "new" battery might have been on the shelf for a year say. I've seen that old chestnut raise it's ugly head too, over the years. Probably not the case but maybe load test the new battery or try one more.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

13Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:09 pm

Gary11

Gary11
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Point-Seven-five wrote:Some questions that come into my mind:

Does the starter start turning when you turn on the key, or after you push the start button?  After you push button

You turn the key off and the starter keeps running until you tap the start relay, is that correct? Yes

The bike has not been modified, is that correct? Yes

Does the headlight go out when the start relay is stuck and the starter is running?  Not sure will check

With the bike on the center stand and the rear wheel off the ground does the starter run on with the transmission in gear? yes but wont start spinning in gear 

Answers to these questions might help isolate the cause of your problem.   Thanks for this regards Gary

    

14Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:16 pm

Gary11

Gary11
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daveyson wrote:I know this is wishful thinking, but here I go again. 

Hopefully it's simply a loose or dirty connection. Or just a bad battery. I know you've tried three batteries, but I'm guessing two of them are old and the new one might not be good, especially if it came from a shop with a low turn over, then that "new" battery might have been on the shelf for a year say. I've seen that old chestnut raise it's ugly head too, over the years. Probably not the case but maybe load test the new battery or try one more.
 Hi new exide battery came today I have also had made a new earth (Battery to gearbox) cable x 2 thicker than factory and fitted them after cleaning earth point,I had great expectations ! This time it just did nothing from starter button, until I pulled clutch in,dash lights dimmed then it started and ran fine,spun over once ok but then kept spinning until tapped relay,o n 2nd attempt we tried something different held starter button down nothing but dash lights dimmed slightly and kept tapping relay it then worked and then failed, Im calling it yet another ruined relay so ordered another (4th one) as our workshop reckon those solenoids are no good once stuck, its coming  Monday so another weekend lost but cant do anything else I guess, if this was a car Id say its an earth fault.

    

15Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:30 pm

MartinW

MartinW
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My relay is the original to the bike and has stuck three times in 30 years. I've never had to pull it apart it has always unstuck itself. I've pulled apart a mates relay and filed the points at his request and they had arc marks but again they weren't stuck.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

16Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issues Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:45 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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Ditto. 

I think your symptoms are consistent with a weak connection or component in the positive side of the starter circuit because of the improvement with the clutch pulled in. I'm assuming the relay still clicks repeatedly before sticking. I'm also assuming your brick was in neutral at that time (or it would be a normal result if it was still in gear from the previous in gear test you did?) Give the instrument cluster connections a good clean. Use electrical contact cleaner.  

Don't buy more parts unless a part tests bad. One exception, replace fuse one, it's cheap and deliberately the weakest part of the system. And clean it's sockets. Fuses are the second cheapest part of a brick. 

The dim cluster lights points to a Voltage drop, and check the connections at the socket for the starter relay. 

Remove the starter relay, with a test light between 85 and 86 of the starter relay socket, press the start button a number of times, the light should go on and off consistently with the button. Do the same with the kill switch and ignition switch. I think the start button will test good because of the dimming lights symptom.

If the lights get brighter with a battery jumper cable firmly between battery earth and the gearbox, there's a problem on the earth side. Same goes if it's from battery earth to a clean metal part of the frame. Clean the positive battery clamp and check for Voltage drop on the positive side too. 

When it next fails to do anything, listen for a faint click from the relay box when you turn the key on, if there's no click clean the ignition switch, if it clicks, clean the kill switch.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

17Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:59 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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On the side of the starter relay there is a two prong connector that carries the power for the relay's coil.

Instead of tapping the relay when the starter is running, pull that connector off.  What happens when you do that?

I am suspecting a slight trickle of current into the coil that is enough to hold the contacts closed, but not enough to close them.  Pulling the connector would confirm my hypothesis if the starter stops running. 

The fact that you see the same problem with several start relays and a new battery makes me think that the relays are not the problem and the battery voltage isn't an issue either.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

18Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issue Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:43 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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Righto once again I'm no happy with how haphazard my last post was, but there it is. 

Point seven five, what do you think about this idea which I haven't mentioned yet cause it could well be a bunch of crap. I was thinking, spose there's say only 8Volts at socket 30 of the starter relay. Would that result in higher Amps from 30 to 87 causing the contacts to get hot and sticky? Is there any credibility in that do you think?


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

19Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:09 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
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Daveyson, contact welding is the result of the motor not having enough voltage to put the current required to get the starter motor spinning.  If the motor does not spin it won't generate enough counter EMF to reduce the current draw through the starter relay contacts, it will just sit there acting like a dead short on the battery.  Since the motor is spinning, there is not enough current flowing to weld them.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

20Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issue Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:08 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
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Bonus, thanks, I gotta do a bit of reading up.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

21Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:06 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Lights dimmed. . . . . .they need to fully go out when you press the starter button.

Load Shed Relay issue a possibility? Can starter motor brushes being in poor condition have this effect?

I am assuming the Bosch relay part no given in the earlier posts is correct for the K100?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

22Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty thanks for replies Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:59 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
Thanks every one,I have confirmed relays have been correct  bosch ones ending in 161 or 156 I have a new battery and have manufactured 2 new earth leads, I have a further relay coming today ,the stage we are at now is start button  just makes dash lights dim whilst its doing this if you tap the relay in the same manner as when stuck spinning it turns over,it also now when not spinning over starts to spin when clutch is pulled in I think stuck relay may be causing this will post up again once its all together again!
Gary

    

23Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Stater issues Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:19 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
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When in start mode, a part of the circuit is through the instrument cluster. The gear indicator should show 0, and the neutral light should be on. If this part of the circuit is faulty, you can crank your it by bypassing it when you pull in the clutch.

I was thinking the dim cluster was due to a Voltage drop, but was just guessing. If you read 12Volts on the green/black wire to the instrument cluster, check if the earth's are good, which brings up the question of which cluster lights are on, and which ones go dim. If say you read 8Volts, then there's a Voltage drop between the cluster and the battery. Hopefully simply cleaning the cluster plug contacts might fix it.

 It would be good to check the Volts also at the starter relay for 30 and 86.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

24Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:46 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
daveyson wrote:When in start mode, a part of the circuit is through the instrument cluster. The gear indicator should show 0, and the neutral light should be on. If this part of the circuit is faulty, you can crank your it by bypassing it when you pull in the clutch.

I was thinking the dim cluster was due to a Voltage drop, but was just guessing. If you read 12Volts on the green/black wire to the instrument cluster, check if the earth's are good, which brings up the question of which cluster lights are on, and which ones go dim. If say you read 8Volts, then there's a Voltage drop between the cluster and the battery. Hopefully simply cleaning the cluster plug contacts might fix it.

 It would be good to check the Volts also at the starter relay for 30 and 86.
Hi thanks for reply, I've fitted yet another relay exactly the same only spins with clutch in occasionally fires then hey presto worked perfectly started and dissengaged let it run for 30 secs then stalled now same no good, if you push start button with neutral on and gp 0 nothing but brightness on lamps dims,also now alternator lights on ,I was wondering if cables were round wrong way on relay? Just a thought, thought Id cracked it for a few seconds LOL it wont spin now with clutch in or not fuel pump not buzzing on start button press either....not happy.

    

25Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:09 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
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Have you disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter motor?  If not, please do so. While you're in there, check the length of the brushes and replace them if they are too short.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

26Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:07 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Some place in my memeory of time and all the posts here there is something about a faulty load shed relay causing some strange problems like this. Also starter brushes.

You seem to have isolated out battery and relay issues.

Starter brush kits are very cheap and so too is a load shed relay. The starter brushes also perform an earthing function on the K bike.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

27Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issue Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:41 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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As a test from some old thread in the past, I removed the load shed relay, but my brick still started normally, so I think it's just a helper but not essential. The starter motor provides earth to the coil of the load shed relay, so that's another reason why the load shed relay might not click with the key turned to on, now that the symptoms have changed a bit. 

I've had the starter brushes problem, but the symptoms were different, but if you have 12 Volts at the starter with the start button pressed but the starter doesn't turn, yes you have isolated the problem to the starter. That's a quick easy test.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

28Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:37 am

Gary11

Gary11
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robmack wrote:Have you disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter motor?  If not, please do so.  While you're in there, check the length of the brushes and replace them if they are too short.
hi rob,
new starter fitted
thanks 
Gary

    

29Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:33 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Gary11 wrote:
robmack wrote:Have you disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter motor?  If not, please do so.  While you're in there, check the length of the brushes and replace them if they are too short.
hi rob,
new starter fitted
thanks 
Gary
If it's a used starter its not a guarantee it's good. Did you open it up and have a look before fitting it?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

30Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:15 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:
Gary11 wrote:
robmack wrote:Have you disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter motor?  If not, please do so.  While you're in there, check the length of the brushes and replace them if they are too short.
hi rob,
new starter fitted
thanks 
Gary
If it's a used starter its not a guarantee it's good. Did you open it up and have a look before fitting it?
Hi Rob its a new one mate 
wondering about load shed relay, earth connections to clocks and handlebar switches now

    

31Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:08 am

Laitch

Laitch
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How about this one?

Although I like the sound of counter-EMF and in fact might have experienced that at a delicatessen in Knoxville once, according to BMW’s manual Level 2–LE Jetronic, the starter relay ground is applied and disconnected by the ignition control unit based on crankshaft rotation signals it receives from the Hall sensor. If those signals to the ignition control unit trigger an electical signal that is weak because the control unit is malfunctioning, it wouldn’t surprise me that beating on the relay would have an effect on the relay causing disconnection or connection.

The ignition control unit receives operating power from the ignition switch through the kill switch. If the ignition switch contacts are dirty, it might not send adequate power to the ignition control unit for accurate operation. If all else seems ok, consider testing the ignition control unit based on results developed from data in the troubleshooting manual. If the parameters are incorrect, consider cleaning the ignition switch and kill switch before replacing the anything.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
starter issue K100 Usa-lo10
    

32Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:17 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
About a week ago I asked about doing a simple test to determine if there was power to the coil of the start relay holding the contacts closed.

Still no response...


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

33Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:24 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Point-Seven-five wrote:About a week ago . . . Still no response...
It could be that the pace of life in a coastal town like Shoeburyness is somewhat slower than the norm in rural New York, resulting in an extended Standard Unit of Delay that can only be accommodated by residential experience. I know it takes longer to get french fries in Miami than in South Burlington. If you leave Al's French Fries out the the equation, it's Miami's humidity that slows things down so you order them before you want them. Smile



Last edited by Laitch on Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : modification of outlook)


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
starter issue K100 Usa-lo10
    

34Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:16 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
Point-Seven-five wrote:About a week ago I asked about doing a simple test to determine if there was power to the coil of the start relay holding the contacts closed.

Still no response...
Hi sorry been waiting for our electrician! We have checked and swopped out load shed relay still same and have now checked voltage at starter relay with button pressed and its 6 volts its losing power somewhere so seems an earth fault so looks like fairing off and tank again unless there are some other earth  points or connections to check that we may be able to get at that may cause this? All you replies are much appreciated chaps.
Very frustrated seems all the money, starter, relays, battery's was wasted back to square 1

    

35Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Starter issue Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:27 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
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Hmm doesn't seem like an earth issue to me. 

What happens when you pull the plug at the starter relay like point seven five mentions? That's a quick easy test that costs no money.

Also you could keep doing Voltage checks, a step at a time towards the battery, to help find where the Voltage drop is.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

36Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:43 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
In the unlikely event you do try pulling the connector when the starter is running on, it would be useful to get a voltage reading across the terminals in the connector.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

37Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:29 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
daveyson wrote:Hmm doesn't seem like an earth issue to me. 

What happens when you pull the plug at the starter relay like point seven five mentions? That's a quick easy test that costs no money.

Also you could keep doing Voltage checks, a step at a time towards the battery, to help find where the Voltage drop is.
So simplistically the fault is only 6 volts at starter relay with start button pressed, this under voltage causing the relay to stick. Earth to Gbox changed

    

38Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Stater issues Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:17 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
I think it's too early to tell yet but your test results will help find the problem.

At which starter relay positive did you read 6 Volts?


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

39Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:44 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Gary11 wrote:So simplistically the fault is only 6 volts at starter relay with start button pressed, this under voltage causing the relay to stick. Earth to Gbox changed
Fairing off, tank off, test the ignition control unit's output. starter issue K100 177381


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
starter issue K100 Usa-lo10
    

40Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:11 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:
Gary11 wrote:So simplistically the fault is only 6 volts at starter relay with start button pressed, this under voltage causing the relay to stick. Earth to Gbox changed
Fairing off, tank off, test the ignition control unit's output. starter issue K100 177381
Looking that way ignition switch and start button are going to get stripped and cleaned first , it wont even spin over now clutch pulled in or not ,some one posted a K100 wiring diagram but I cant see it now any chance of posting again please sorry thanks for your help everyone.

    

41Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:14 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Gary11 wrote: . . . some one posted a K100 wiring diagram but I cant see it now any chance of posting again
Click the Portal tab at the top of this page, then click on the words Tech Page in its center, then be agreeable, then click on the words Electrical Diagrams under the category Electrical. Also in that category is the Troubleshooting the EFI guide and the Cleaning the ignition switch guide.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
starter issue K100 Usa-lo10
    

42Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:14 pm

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:
Gary11 wrote: . . . some one posted a K100 wiring diagram but I cant see it now any chance of posting again
Click the Portal tab at the top of this page, then click on the words Tech Page in its center, then be agreeable, then click on the words Electrical Diagrams under the category Electrical. Also in that category is the Troubleshooting the EFI guide and the Cleaning the ignition switch guide.
aaah thanks so much for that!
G

    

43Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty starter issue K100 Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:02 am

Gary11

Gary11
active member
active member
Hi every one just to thank  all for their help, finally got the family heirloom up and running all is now good it was a bad connection in the back of the ignition switch, back on the road MOTd too.
Thanks again all!

    

44Back to top Go down   starter issue K100 Empty Re: starter issue K100 Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:26 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
starter issue K100 723598


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

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